manchesterpaul

Don't worry Squall it was a light-hearted post. So i am indeed moving on. Fullest respect to each and every fan who travels to away meetings and any events away from their home track. Please lighten up it was, as mentioned above, a truly light hearted post. Agreed it's not always possible to make that clear. It was very heart-warming indeed to hear reports of more than a few Sheffield fans in attendance.

Squall Noooooo!???? Noooooo!???? Surely you can't admit to even a slightest cheer? Are you embarrassingly 'band wagoning'? For once (nearly) every one of BSPA, Speedway Star, Scunthorpe, Sheffield had SCUNTHORPE errrrrm ALONE as the listed participating team in the final. Squall surely you not doing what most of the UK, and in particular Londoners do, as in cheering on a non-home town team (Manchester United). Let's be clear....Sheffield?????.....hate to tell you this but.....according to the record books and semi-final results Sheffield have NOTHING to do with this final and likely Trophy win. Not sure if i mentioned this before but......oh! for an always referred to Scunthorpe/Sheffield team. Without abuse answer me Squall counter me?

Errrm? I was just commenting on the averages and make up of the teams! I quoted a source that had the information presented in a more readable form paragraph wise. Plus, last i saw of the original thread it said "a new system to calculate averages will be presented later." Anyways, no biggie and thanks as ever to Ghostwalker for all the info.

Squall do you ever answer a post without needing to issue personal abuse? Are you unable to put up an opposing view or counter argument that will stand by itself? I can assure you yourself telling me to pipe down will have absolutely nil effect on further contributions to the topic being put forward by myself. I'm sure that most people having been told to pipe down would make a point of doing exactly the opposite. So your abusive statement has no effect. We have had fans contribute in other threads about the omisison of their team mattering greatly. In answer to your question, yes i do get out a lot. OK????? Do you wish to get involved inn a prolonged debate over how much i get out? Well tell you what, i'll save myself and everyone else from the boredom of an off the topic waste of forum space by issuing my personal statement of; Please take note i'm not getting engaged in 'off-topic attacking the poster and not the post' conversations. There is way too much of it across the forums. It's a very inconsiderate waste of the forum owner's bandwidth, which presumably is not free, to use the forums for abuse, insults or creating and carrying out personal vendetta's and off-topic feuding when it's purpose of being a forum is for speedway discussion. Do please try and calm down Squall and keep to the SPEEDWAY topic of a thread. Incidentally, be it not liking particular commentators styles or amazing gaffes in the scoring etc. above all i DO concentrate on and am thankful for coverage of the sport. Also, despite decrepit conditions and wide open to the elements i do concentrate on and enjoy attending speedway fixtures.

As i mentioned above the sharing aspect is a great idea. Did you not see where i said "The actual sharing of resources and costs is absolutely fine a great idea if it gets invaluable racing experience for younger riders."???? Now please be so kind as to answer two questions that your post instantly triggers; 1. What do the Sheffield fans think when their team is not listed as taking part in the final and will have nothing to celebrate despite hosting fixtures and presumably having contracted riders contributing to a potential cup win (for Scunthorpe ALONE) in the final? Note that according to some of the varying sources of BSPA, Scunthorpe, Sheffield, Speedway Star: Sheffield are NOT in the final and will NOT win a trophy. 2. Were you to cheer 'Go Saints' in the original scheduled semi-final at Sheffield when Sheffield ALONE were the team? Note that according to some of the varying sources of BSPA, Scunthorpe, Sheffield, Speedway Star: Scunthorpe would NOT have qualified for the final as they didn't participate in the semi-final if it hadn't been for postponments.

I mean it's a farce regards to the erratic naming of fixtures as to the team racing being; Scunthorpe/Sheffield Sheffield/Scunthorpe Scunthorpe Sheffield EVERY single explanation for the name to be used in varying scenarios has proved not to be so. It has been discussed in other threads. The actual sharing of resources and costs is absolutely fine a great idea if it gets invaluable racing experience for younger riders. I gave the 'obvious' reasons for the farce aspect in other threads. As mentioned above there is and has always been different names for fixtures for the combined team with all four main sources BSPA, Scunthorpe, Sheffield and Speedway Star contradicting. Can you imagine the confusion and ridicule invoked in sports journalists, local press journalists and public with the 'now you see then now you don't' aspect, in particular of the semi-finals and final. Reports of a successful team will attract non-followers of a sport (and local media) if it is in their local name. But hell! one minute they are in a semi-final then they are not, then they are in the final then they are not. Can you imagine trying to get for example a local Sheffied radio station to broadcast coverage from the final involving Scunthorpe and Mildenhall! Errrm on what grounds? It would be like asking Radio Manchester to cover a Liverpool football match not involving a Manchester team. I mean why hack away potential fan support or media coverage by, depending on the fixture, declaring it is Scunthorpe or Sheffield racing. Also, of course, that hacking away being variable for each fixture depending whether you are looking at a BSPA, Scunthorpe, Sheffield or Speedway Star source. Don't forget if we hadn't had the postponements we'd have had the farcical situation of the record books and many media outlets showing; 1. Sheffield winning the semi-final and NOT appearing in the final! eeeeek! lol. 2. Scunthorpe not having been involved in the semi-finals BUT appearing in the final! eeeeek! lol. How much more blindingly sane to attract (continued) local coverage and fan attendance than to always name the team Scunthorpe/Sheffiled? (shouldn't have to point this out but i case of argumentative people, Scunthorpe first on alphabetical order)

From Sheffield??? Why? I see no mention of Sheffield in this final! Agree it's great to have the National League and that the play-off's add extra excitement and keep the season meaningful for many teams. Although, as with the Elite (and Premier in the past), there should as there is in a lot of other sports be a trophy awarded for the team topping the leauge as well. However, this farce of Scunthorpe/Sheffied not being referred to as such at all times is insane. I won't re-tread the clear cut reasons why it has been an unforgivable farce as it was covered in a topic recently. But the listing of the final as being just Scunthorpe is comical.

Taken from the excellent Speedway365.com site "Swedish speedway's governing body Svemo has set out the rules for the 2012 Elitserien season. Riders in Swedish competitions receive an average according to how many points they score per race rather than over four heats, which is the system used in the British leagues. The new rules see each team given an equivalent of a 42 points limit for building their teams and managers must achieve a minimum of 35 points, Each of the eight clubs are only allowed to sign a squad of seven riders, with the addition of two Swedish guest riders who also compete in the Allsvenskan League if they choose to do so. In an effort to bring youngsters through the Swedish system, every team must also feature a minimum of two Swedish-licensed riders with one ride under the age of 21." Nice to see the averages falling in line with what most fans are used to and makes it much easier to grasp and compare riders performances. I certainly think the two national rider stipulation is a good one for those outside the main seven. Also it should go without saying that any league that demands a rider be included on an 'under a set age' rule is very good for that league's nation.

Those are the exact figures i had in mind when i posted the above. Even allowing for speedway not having the financial clout of the World's major sports the rates don't look impressive at all. The Speeedway Star have indeed confirmed today that Darcy Ward has merely been invited and it isn't a set fact that he will appear in the series. No wonder if some of the figures suspected for wages from Polish clubs are fairly accurate that he would opt to miss the SGP. Which brings us on to who should be the new nominated Wild Card? Always presuming they would elect a new one and not move up a series reserve!

A minute for? Hopefully for discussion of the topic. My above was response to a post made with personal insults instead of points being discussed regarding the topic. A further example coming up below. I never said i was too busy to enjoy and use the forum. And now on to the rest of your post...... Please take note i'm not getting engaged in 'off-topic attacking the poster and not the post' conversations. There is way too much of it across the forums. It's a very inconsiderate waste of the forum owner's bandwidth, which presumably is not free, to use the forums for abuse, insults or creating and carrying out personal vendetta's and off-topic feuding when it's purpose of being a forum is for speedway discussion.

Dear oh Dear such an infinitely sad reply! Did you also not see the emoticons i attached to illustrate it was said in light mood? I gave the single obvious and understandable reason for wishing it was in the correct section of the forums. I didn't personally insult the original poster. Simply pointed out why it needed to be in it's rightful section of the forum. A 'victory' ????????? Nothing of the sort so pathetic could ever cross my mind. Also, i simply don't have the time and certainly not the inclination to engage in such low trivia occupying my mind. I've had a topic moved in the past to a different section and it never remotely registered for a second as being a 'loss'. Admittedly, it was a hard to judge where to post one. But all the same i wouldn't ever be over-sensitive for it to matter a jot or view such a thing as a victory or loss. I've never policed the internet in my life in the insultive way you are inferring. I'm actually heavily and with great success involved in many freedom of speech campaigns and projects. Only time i'd object to free speech is if it's insulting or abusive to others. Ok that's more than enough in going so far as to give you a courtesy of a reply for your post. Now we move on to the rest of it and once again it's necessarily to issue MY standard statement of; Please take note i'm not getting engaged in 'off-topic attacking the poster and not the post' conversations. There is way too much of it across the forums. It's a very inconsiderate waste of the forum owner's bandwidth, which presumably is not free, to use the forums for abuse, insults or creating and carrying out personal vendetta's and off-topic feuding when it's purpose of being a forum is for speedway discussion.

Hee! Hee! Hee!. Well all i can say in response is......was i right or wrong? Was the thread rightfully moved? Like i said i wasn't nitpicking, we've all made posts in the wrong section many times, but with a topic this specific well come on now taking the proverbial a little? The arguments mentioned on Sky last night made it sound as if Darcy Ward would be unlikely to accept an invitation which in my eyes is a great shame indeed. It would appear he will lose out on far superior earnings if he opts for the Grand Prix series in preference to the Polish League. Maybe the SGP series for the world's best riders should make the payments and prize money for them the best in the world?

Might as well join others in having to now duplicate thoughts on the topic in two sections of the forum. If it is the case then that makes the original post's thoughts correct. Although, for the reasons i gave it wasn't exactly rocket science as far as i'm concerned and am sure most fans would have thought the same. Very important question if Darcy Ward is indeed nominated i presume that it is 100% dependent still on him accepting the invitation?. The fact that he has apparently been named as one of the four doesn't mean he will be taking part??? Maybe the official press release statement to be issued tomorrow will clarify that? Only i take it that the club that has put the news out on Twitter ahead of the SGP announcement have not also provided us with such details? I wonder if whoever is responsible for the Poole Twitter would be pleased if someone leaked a big news story of theirs ahead of schedule on any given occasion.

If it is the case then that makes the original post's thoughts correct. Although, for the reasons i gave it wasn't exactly rocket science as far as i'm concerned and am sure most fans would have thought the same. Very important question if Darcy Ward is indeed nominated i presume that it is 100% dependent still on him accepting the invitation?. The fact that he has apparently been named as one of the four doesn't mean he will be taking part??? Maybe the official press release statement to be issued tomorrow will clarify that? Only i take it that the club that has put the news out on Twitter ahead of the SGP announcement have not also provided us with such details? I wonder if whoever is responsible for the Poole Twitter would be pleased if someone leaked a big news story of theirs ahead of schedule on any given occasion.

Whilst a lot of threads can be hard to decide what section they should be put in, it absolutely beggars belief that this topic has been started in the Elite League section. For goodness sake look at the title of the thread '2012 GP Wildcards Announced' should that not give a clue as to the correct forum. It certainly is not of being finicky either, it's annoying when following a topic to have to visit more than one section. Amazingly, as was bound to happen, there have already been duplicate posts made in the running thread in the GP section. There is, at this moment in time, a running 10 page thread on the topic http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=67053

??? Steve i know. I was pointing out that the 4.67 is indeed THE correct average per meeting and not 7.00. OK to try and clarify the point again for our friend Ghostwalker. Let's take a British Elite League club and ask him which of the following two riders he would like to sign if he had a team. Rider A wins all of his 4 programmed rides = 3,3,3,3, = 12 points in the meeting. A true average of 12.00. Ghostwalker average of 12.00. Rider B a reserve takes seven rides and never wins a race always finishing second. = 2,2,2,2,2,2,2, = 14 points in the meeting. A true average of 8.00. Ghostwalker average of 14.00!!! I think we would all sign Rider A who wins every race and not the one who never wins a race. So Thomas H Jonasson's true average for the 'used since time began' method of speedway stats is indeed 4.67. If you want to give him an average for the competition's format it is 7.00 but do remember and take into account that is 7pts from 6 rides, which is not a top average. I mean a rider who averages 10.00 pts in a league calculation (4 rides) would average 15.00 in the world cup format (6 rides). Also, a 7.00 league average is 10.50 when converted to the 6 ride format of THJ's Ghostwalker quoted average in the world cup format.

Ghostwalker i so hate to have to correct or disagree with you as you have so much valuable input to the forums but....???? i'm very puzzled by this. Surely there is not a speedway fan in the world (or a mathematician) that would dispute the TRUE average from the stats provided is indeed 4.67. By your argument an unbeaten rider scoring 3 3 from 2 rides would average 6.00 and a reserve scoring 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 from seven rides would have an average of 7.00

Very good hee hee. Thanks for that info.

Thanks for that, i do wish posters would switch to the PM for arguments/discussions over grammar or spelling. Harking back to my initial post at the start of the thread i think the 'four already decided' that i suggested still hold pretty firm. Unfortunately, it will be a crying shame if Darcy Ward turns down an invitation. That gets me to wondering have the SGP selectors ever included a surprise nomination? One that fans didn't see coming or vehemently criticized? Also how has Thomas H. Jonasson performed in international standard meetings this season? Did he do well in the World Cup or was he not selected for that being relatively early in the season?.

I wouldn't have that problem as i use an interactive version of my racecard. So once i type in the heat result absolutely everything updates instantly and is colour coded etc. Also bold font in places facilitates an at-a-glance view of all that matters. I might look into providing a live updates page that will display all the stats of the racecard on a single screen. The rider grid will obviously also update in points order including countback and the semi-final draw order.

Very interesting indeed. It looks primed for betting on more than one rider in a race over more than one betting site. Only needs simple maths to calculate the bets to be made. Can't wait for next season now lol. Thanks for all the info i'll have a look next year.

Is the final GP next year due to be Gorzow? Tonight's is proving to be very entertaining can only imagine how it would be if the World title was at stake too. Would be totally insane if Gollob or Hampel was challenging for it with the points all bunched up. obrien48 i presume the odds shrink though when there is a gate bias? Then again from the prices you've quoted so far it doesn't seem they might go to unbettable levels from a making a profit view. I'll monitor the first few meetings next year.

Gobsmacking win for Harris over unbeaten Hancock and also Crump in the race.

So who did they lay as the favourite in Hancock's race? Surely speedway heat betting doesn't pay such handsome odds all the time? I've never bet on heats in speedway.

Did the established GP stars put Darcy in his place then or was it a one-race blip for him? I hope he does well so that it sways him to accept a WIld Card invitation next year. Would love to see him riding regularly in the series. Looking at Freddie Lindgren's scores maybe he thinks he has a Wild Card already sewn up?