orion Posted Friday at 04:20 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 04:20 PM 18 hours ago, mikebv said: And that goes back to the fundamental issue of the admission price being set too hight just to pay competitors to be fully professional... The sport also charges an admission fee that it feel reflects it's standing amongst its peer sports... The truth is, it is miles away from even Ice Hockey attendance wise.. Asking a couple to pay out well over fifty quid to watch 15 mins of action is truly a major ask, and a definite hard sell, even for a marketing professional let alone someone with a zero skill set in marketing and event promotions.. And throw in that ludicrous operating model whereby, should you actually get hooked on the sport, you can spend many hundreds of pounds in a season, and your reward is to see your best rider helping someone else on an ad-hoc basis which can help prevent his own, (and your), team from resching the play offs.. Thanks for your money, roll on next season for more of the same..!!!!😁 Not again ..speedway was massive when we had guests in its hey day and also had stupid ts rules..Wembley had massive crowds for world finals when half the field were not even the best in the world.no one cared due to . They said the same again next year and it still filled up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted Friday at 06:19 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 06:19 PM 1 hour ago, orion said: Not again ..speedway was massive when we had guests in its hey day and also had stupid ts rules..Wembley had massive crowds for world finals when half the field were not even the best in the world.no one cared due to . They said the same again next year and it still filled up. What you got away with donkeys years ago you cannot do know... The internet would literally rdicule and destroy the sport should there ever be mainstream coverage now... Years ago you turned up and only then found the best rider scheduled was missing, and a decent rider from another team had been booked to replace him.... Now, you know three days out, and many then go on line to either take the pee as to how a team can actually improve themselves, or simply many just dont turn up to watch something which now becomes contrived.. Not great in selling the event.. The sport was clearly built on ITV coverage of England's success at international level, which then led to domestic interest by fans who formed part of the literally millions who tuned regularly in to watch given only 3 channels existed.. The domestic racing basically piggy backed off the ITV International coverage.. The decline of the sport can be directly linked to the early 80's when the Danes and USA started to beat England on ITV regularly... With the fans then attending tracks to watch dozens of journeymen Scandinavians, Yanks and Aussies, rather than "local lads" which had been the norm.. There is a reason Poland won't use guests and that is their leagues will have the same lack of credibility that the UK ones do, meaning fans, sponsors and TV would turn the backs on it... Guests are clearly here to stay given the lack of riders, and followers paying in to afford a squad system, but, by using such a system each season and expecting the sport to have any credibility, is like Usain Bolt choosing to have worn a running vest with 2 stone lead weights added to it, and him expecting to have been an Olympic Champion.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sidney Posted Friday at 08:03 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 08:03 PM 1 hour ago, mikebv said: The sport was clearly built on ITV coverage of England's success at international level, which then led to domestic interest by fans who formed part of the literally millions who tuned regularly in to watch given only 3 channels existed.. The domestic racing basically piggy backed off the ITV International coverage.. The decline of the sport can be directly linked to the early 80's when the Danes and USA started to beat England on ITV regularly... With the fans then attending tracks to watch dozens of journeymen Scandinavians, Yanks and Aussies, rather than "local lads" which had been the norm.. The decline started way before the 80s. I started to go to Wimbledon in 1969 and the crowds, whilst large by today's standards, were way lower than for example the 50s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted Friday at 09:13 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 09:13 PM 50 minutes ago, Sir Sidney said: The decline started way before the 80s. I started to go to Wimbledon in 1969 and the crowds, whilst large by today's standards, were way lower than for example the 50s The post was years were "boom" years given the public's desire for entertainment after the war... The late 60's and 70's, with the onset of major TV ownership, were though the years that elevated the sport with it's 'main sports' slot on ITV many times a season, providing the perfect advert for the domestic version of the sport to build their own business on.. When "England" started to lose regularly and their riders didn't challenge for the World Championship often, it then became a slow decline which has sped up significantly over the past two decades.. Personally, for me, a myriad of opportunities to change the operating model, to a fit for purpose one that reflects the modern digital era, have come and gone, and where we are now is pretty much "rock bottom" with so few teams, and so few "ideas people" involved who have the required skill set to sort out the clear and obvious issues.. I can still remember a KO Cup Final in 1973 against Reading at Hyde Rd where there were over 23,000 there.. I wouldn't imagine there will be 23,000 watching speedway in a week in the UK, if every track ran one meeting a week now.. That is the size of the decline and you will struggle to come back from that level of drop off... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted Friday at 09:54 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 09:54 PM (edited) 3 hours ago, mikebv said: What you got away with donkeys years ago you cannot do know... The internet would literally rdicule and destroy the sport should there ever be mainstream coverage now... Years ago you turned up and only then found the best rider scheduled was missing, and a decent rider from another team had been booked to replace him.... Now, you know three days out, and many then go on line to either take the pee as to how a team can actually improve themselves, or simply many just dont turn up to watch something which now becomes contrived.. Not great in selling the event.. The sport was clearly built on ITV coverage of England's success at international level, which then led to domestic interest by fans who formed part of the literally millions who tuned regularly in to watch given only 3 channels existed.. The domestic racing basically piggy backed off the ITV International coverage.. The decline of the sport can be directly linked to the early 80's when the Danes and USA started to beat England on ITV regularly... With the fans then attending tracks to watch dozens of journeymen Scandinavians, Yanks and Aussies, rather than "local lads" which had been the norm.. There is a reason Poland won't use guests and that is their leagues will have the same lack of credibility that the UK ones do, meaning fans, sponsors and TV would turn the backs on it... Guests are clearly here to stay given the lack of riders, and followers paying in to afford a squad system, but, by using such a system each season and expecting the sport to have any credibility, is like Usain Bolt choosing to have worn a running vest with 2 stone lead weights added to it, and him expecting to have been an Olympic Champion.... You have no idea in Poland if sponsors tv etc come on board because of no guests etc . Guests in fact and a much better that having to replace heat leaders with no hopers like they do in Poland .. Do you really think if Poland had guests and Uk never someone we would be have the massive crowds and Poland would not ..The polish play off final two seasons ago when one team had all its heat leaders and replaced with Charles Wright etc and that allowed the most sided final over lwo legs was of the worst things i had even see sport it was complete Joke .. That was like Usain Bolt getting into the Olympic final and then having to start 50 yards behind . Edited Friday at 09:57 PM by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teromaafan Posted Saturday at 05:57 AM Report Share Posted Saturday at 05:57 AM 7 hours ago, orion said: You have no idea in Poland if sponsors tv etc come on board because of no guests etc . Guests in fact and a much better that having to replace heat leaders with no hopers like they do in Poland .. Do you really think if Poland had guests and Uk never someone we would be have the massive crowds and Poland would not ..The polish play off final two seasons ago when one team had all its heat leaders and replaced with Charles Wright etc and that allowed the most sided final over lwo legs was of the worst things i had even see sport it was complete Joke .. That was like Usain Bolt getting into the Olympic final and then having to start 50 yards behind . Guests have always been part and parcel of the sport since I first followed it over 50 years ago. I don’t like it, but I’ve come to accept it. I lost touch with speedway in the years that Leicester were closed, but when I got back into the sport (2011), I was shocked at the amount of doubling up. This to me destroys the credibility of the sport in the UK more than the guest system. It’s got to the stage where any talked about single league (i.e no doubling up) looks impossible without a large influx of riders (from where?) which also impacts the earning potential of existing riders due to reduced numbers of meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted Saturday at 07:14 AM Report Share Posted Saturday at 07:14 AM (edited) 4 hours ago, Teromaafan said: Guests have always been part and parcel of the sport since I first followed it over 50 years ago. I don’t like it, but I’ve come to accept it. I lost touch with speedway in the years that Leicester were closed, but when I got back into the sport (2011), I was shocked at the amount of doubling up. This to me destroys the credibility of the sport in the UK more than the guest system. It’s got to the stage where any talked about single league (i.e no doubling up) looks impossible without a large influx of riders (from where?) which also impacts the earning potential of existing riders due to reduced numbers of Crowds have dropped as the standard of rider and team strengths have got weaker it's pretty simple..If we had all the top riders here no one would care about guests and the crowds would be bigger . .Do people really think if we stopped using guests fans are going to start flocking back..of course they won't. Edited Saturday at 10:10 AM by orion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teromaafan Posted Saturday at 08:07 AM Report Share Posted Saturday at 08:07 AM 46 minutes ago, orion said: Crowds have dropped as the standard of rider and team strengths have got weaker it's pretty simple..If we had all the top riders here no one would care about guests and the crowds would be bigger . .Do people really think if we stopped using guests fans are going to stop flocking back..of course they won't. If rider and team strengths were more evenly balanced, rider standards become less relevant. Doing away with the guest system would sadly make the situation worse. When your GP standard No.1 gets injured, replacing him with your club junior is not going to work is it? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted Sunday at 10:21 PM Report Share Posted Sunday at 10:21 PM I see Birmingham's facility for MJJ has been extended. I have to admit what's the point of giving a 14 day facility then extending it, why not give a 28 day facility to start with. If there is a reason for the 14 day facility, that's fine - just don't extend it then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted Sunday at 10:51 PM Report Share Posted Sunday at 10:51 PM 27 minutes ago, szkocjasid said: I see Birmingham's facility for MJJ has been extended. I have to admit what's the point of giving a 14 day facility then extending it, why not give a 28 day facility to start with. If there is a reason for the 14 day facility, that's fine - just don't extend it then! I've heard it suggested that they only got 14 days because MJJ wasn't withholding his services, his contract just expired. I also assume that's why MJJ hasn't been issued a 28 day ban. The SCB have been awfully quiet this year, probably still recovering from all their admin of last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PersonalResponsibility Posted yesterday at 06:03 AM Report Share Posted yesterday at 06:03 AM I don't think there's ever been a case of "ah, just give them a facility and let them get on with it" than this. I can see it being extended until the end of the season - standard season, Birmingham's ended months ago sadly - unless Brum want to replace MJJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveusaB Posted yesterday at 06:55 AM Report Share Posted yesterday at 06:55 AM Its easier to extend it as opposed to watch B'ham fold before the season ends! Besides they need to keep Tolley sweet in preparation for his takeover at Sheffield next season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teromaafan Posted yesterday at 07:00 AM Report Share Posted yesterday at 07:00 AM 3 minutes ago, GiveusaB said: Its easier to extend it as opposed to watch B'ham fold before the season ends! Besides they need to keep Tolley sweet in preparation for his takeover at Sheffield next season! Will the Bates family still be involved or are they selling up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveusaB Posted yesterday at 07:33 AM Report Share Posted yesterday at 07:33 AM Haven't a clue...I'm just reading between the lines! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*JJ Posted yesterday at 07:37 AM Report Share Posted yesterday at 07:37 AM 3 minutes ago, GiveusaB said: Haven't a clue... Only too true. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted yesterday at 08:16 AM Report Share Posted yesterday at 08:16 AM 1 hour ago, Teromaafan said: Will the Bates family still be involved or are they selling up? Julie Reading left earlier in the year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveusaB Posted yesterday at 08:34 AM Report Share Posted yesterday at 08:34 AM 56 minutes ago, *JJ said: Only too true. May be he should ask you, the one that pretends to know it all.... What does the 'J' stand for in your initial ? Is it 'JOKER'!? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted yesterday at 09:40 AM Report Share Posted yesterday at 09:40 AM 10 hours ago, IainB said: I've heard it suggested that they only got 14 days because MJJ wasn't withholding his services, his contract just expired. I also assume that's why MJJ hasn't been issued a 28 day ban. The SCB have been awfully quiet this year, probably still recovering from all their admin of last year. If that's the case facility shouldn't be extended. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted yesterday at 09:45 AM Report Share Posted yesterday at 09:45 AM (edited) 2 hours ago, GiveusaB said: Its easier to extend it as opposed to watch B'ham fold before the season ends! Besides they need to keep Tolley sweet in preparation for his takeover at Sheffield next season! It would be a shame to see Birmingham struggle (more than they already are) but they shouldn't "invent" rules mid-season to keep them competitive, when year after year they pick awful teams. If the league knew teams would struggle, then should have made a lower limit, allowing Oxford & Birmingham to be more competitive, rather than "gifting" them an underserved facility. However Birmingham were only given a 75% facility for Zagar & effectively replaced him with Hume till he returned. So if Brummies riding under strength then wasn't a threat to them finishing the season, why would it be now? Edit: I've just realised I'm looking for logic & consistency in decisions made by the BSPL. That probably answers my question lol! Edited yesterday at 09:47 AM by szkocjasid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teromaafan Posted yesterday at 10:00 AM Report Share Posted yesterday at 10:00 AM 12 minutes ago, szkocjasid said: It would be a shame to see Birmingham struggle (more than they already are) but they shouldn't "invent" rules mid-season to keep them competitive, when year after year they pick awful teams. If the league knew teams would struggle, then should have made a lower limit, allowing Oxford & Birmingham to be more competitive, rather than "gifting" them an underserved facility. However Birmingham were only given a 75% facility for Zagar & effectively replaced him with Hume till he returned. So if Brummies riding under strength then wasn't a threat to them finishing the season, why would it be now? Edit: I've just realised I'm looking for logic & consistency in decisions made by the BSPL. That probably answers my question lol! Do you realise that you’ve used ‘logic’& ‘BSPL’ in the same sentence.😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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