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There you go people a thread just for you.Whinge away and leave the other threads to people who still like and enjoy talking about the sport.You have helped drive a good few away from this forum so let us please keep the ones we have left. Thanks in advance I live in hope (well at least until the first reply).

My hopes on the AGM 1. A limit to the number of team changes each can make per year. This year was ridiculous. 2. Limit double up to British riders and foreigners who only race in the UK only. 3. Return the 3rd tier to a development league that pays only the basic pay rate (thus encouraging first and second tier venues to track a second team). 4. Have The Championship have more league fixtures and get rid of the Shield (give each club a more predictable number of fixtures, 10 league home matches is too low). Just my thoughts.

Decent first signing for Glasgow...Broc Nicol

It ultimately goes back to a lack of clear demarcation between the Leagues which is driven in so many ways by the vanity of the Promoters 'playing above their level'... Poole are dropping down because they are not making the money Matt Ford wants to make, and many criticise him for it, however, it is 1000% the right decision as a business man.. He could decide to keep rubbing shoulders with the 'top riders' but has decided to cut his cloth accordingly.. Doubling up/down is a classic example of Promoters wanting better riders in their teams than their bank accounts can afford, and is only in place to provide them with these riders who, by the same, need to make ends meet by riding in two leagues.. There should be three clear Leagues based on support and income. With clear differing levels to make them aspirational, not comfort zoned.. League One = Teams who get circa 1000+ on average. £18 x 1000 punters = £18,000 (ex vat equals £14400). @£100 average per point equals £9000 for an average of 90 points home and away. Meaning £5400 to pay other meeting costs. (Not including any other income streams). League Two = Teams who get circa 600 minimum to 999 on average. £15 × 600 punters = £9,000 (ex vat equals £7200). @£50 average per point equals £4500 for 90 points home and away. Meaning £2700 to pay other meeting costs. (Not including any other income streams). League Three = Teams who get circa 300 minimum to 599 on average. £12 x 300 punters = £3600 (ex vat equals £2880). @£10 average per point equals £900 for 90 points home and away. Meaning £2700 to pay other meeting costs. (Not including any other income streams). In the top Two Leagues, individual deals are negotiated but the whole outlay is never higher than the £ per point average in total. And in League Three all get the same 'entry level Speedway' money.. Time to align the Three Leagues for aspirational advancement both for the riders and the teams themselves. As you organically grow then you move up. If you recede then you drop... Each though (riders and teams) 'play at their true level'..

Ok, I’m being thick now but, other than a couple of minor problems during the play offs, were there any other problems with doubling up in 2019? I thought the whole point of fixed race nights, whereby PL had Mondays and Thursdays, and CL had every other night, was to avoid these clashes. Also, why do people get upset about riders doubling up in UK when surely any rider who rides more than one league (whether that’s in one country or more) is effectively doubling up?

The more you look in to it John the more you realise what state our sport is in. Being involved as I have been over the last few years has really opened my eyes to the goings on and how only a few people who have money to dispose of can sustain running Speedway teams. Even the biggest and best make very little so something has to change or the slippery slide of clubs disappearing each year will only cease when the last couple close their doors. Costs need to be reduced as we can't get the crowds back like in the past. So many things to compete for adults money with these days, sadly 15 x 1 minute races at over a pound a race doesn't attract the newbies like say £10 did in the past with 13 heats plus a full competitive second half. I know it sounds crazy but one thing I reckon has made Speedway and other minority sports ( that's sadly what we are now ) suffer is school boy football. So many kids now sign for clubs from 5 or 6 year old, Dad is spending £20-£30 a week by the time they play on a Saturday and train twice a week. It all eats in to the disposable income which was available in the past. Riders at junior / national league level expecting £30 a point etc is just mad. This grass roots speedway should be non paid like motocross, trials, track racing etc. Riders wages need to fit in line with revenue for the sport. If you can only afford £40 a point then that has to be the wage across the board. I believe riders deserve more than premier league footballers but when crowds are 400-500 sadly its just not justified. Scrap new tyres for every meeting. As a new rider over the past 4 seasons some of the tyres Ive been handed off riders still have the factory nobbles on. This waist of money needs to stop. I could go on and on but sadly Ive not won the lottery and Im just a supporter who for 43 years watched from the terraces before the last 4 years being a rider and now a junior team manager.

Oh no it isn't

Well a new friend said "that the best way to make a small fortune out of speedway is to start with a large one" and I fully agree with him following the experience I have had with my involvement in Speedway... but if you think about it and it isn't rocket science you can work it out on the back of a fag packet... (or Vape Box now just to be PC) (not that we do either Gav) Think of the one off costs to consider at the start of the season such as Licence & Track Licence; Bond Increase; Pre-Season Track Work (track work / materials / boards / paint); Accountancy fees ; BSPA Office Costs; Public Liability Insurance; Air Fence Repairs... Then the Meeting costs such as RENT; MILEAGE; SUNDRIES (Oil Tyres Green Regs Compliance) TRACK STAFF: MEDICAL COVER: REFEREE ; SECURITY; These are all to be paid for just to get the meeting on. Then you have the rider's wages on top. So; get this; and I can show the workings out, just to get a meeting on at Newcastle I reckon it costs 30 quid short of £4000:00 before you pay the riders a penny. All those costs spread out over an 18 meeting season is £4k per match... Now stick with me and still on the back of the same fag packet; if you pay your riders a modest average of £60 per point across the team and you average 51 points per meeting home and away including bonus points that's £3,060 in wages but what you also have to remember is you have to pay for your teams away points as well out of your home gate so that's £6,120 added to your £4k so your home gate needs to be approximately 625 fans paying £16 quid; how many do Newcastle get now? Now all of the above is savagely basic but it gives an idea what the club are up against and if the club were successful the wages figures obviously rise without enough coming through the gate to cover the cost.. The more I look at it the more I despair... Regards THJ Oh and don't forget that "Dammed VAT" (Boris/Corbyn need their slice)

Oop's I will come back later in hope that someone wants to talk about speedway.

Guys give it a rest !!! What's done is done , there's no point in what happened in the past , it's over !!! Both of you are going to regret some comments that have been made here by both of yous , so for the love of god , SHUT UP !!!

can't you girls do this via pm - i log on to see whats happening and see only petty crap i don't want to hear about.

Personally I would like to see the league champions keep that line up for the next season, otherwise we never get to see that team defend their title.

I have recommended the mods remove this thread. It's creating confrontation.

A six point rider would be a DU rider I would think at circa 9pts a meeting.. That would get them at least £13500 and more probably as that is at £50 a point and they would get more being a No1 in League Two.. And probably riding abroad too for at least the same top League money again.. (£600 a night).. If that was the case and he only rode in one league overseas then that would deliver £49500 in total as a minimum. . Not loads, but not bad for six months work. And no one stops them from having another job when not riding Speedway.. And if crowds are much higher than the minimum then clubs can pay more accordingly. Eg if his team gets 1500 then his salary can be £27000... Over time the aspiration has to be each League pays enough money to meet the riders needs without DU'ing but the reality at present means it cannot be ruled out currently.. Bottom line though is clubs have to start paying out what comes in, and not more..

Hey man I wish you would stop talking sense... if you keep coming up with these good ideas you might find yourself in a job with the BSPA... Honestly... it makes perfect sense to me and well said... Think we have said it before; the fans can see what is wrong and you have explained why the blinkered BSPA wont do anything about it... think you have hit the nail on the head and come up with a very well thought out solution which I would love to see happen... But I wont hold my breath... well said buddy Regards THJ

Phillips has been totally unimpressive at Championship level. His NL average is only 6.5... not that good considering how long he has been riding agreed ...not a good signing for Redcar

Nobody should be criticised for trying new things, they might not work but we won’t know until they've been trialled.

Ok..so I do recall this regime, I kept going til the final curtain in 1981. What I can drag from the vaults of past-time is that Eddie (think that's the correct spelling) had a nice, little, Garage on the outskirts of Lowca (Whitehaven end of village) and next to it was quite a nice house. I believe Eddie lost all of that via speedway....like you say THJ his family inheritance...I do recall having sympathy for Eddie. It's sad that speedway just has a very bad habit of creating financial hardship for those who bravely try to run a team.

Personally don’t think that 2 x 2 pointers is the way to go, but given how the promotion team managed to get the line up we ended last season with, we should trust them to get a good team sorted.

People say today's doubling up isn't any different to the past. But when doubling up in the past happened, it was normally by riders affiliated to the club they were doubling up with. I have read Andy Grahame mentioned back when he doubled up with Milton Keynes and Birmingham in 1979. But he actually transferred his full-time career for the Brummies shortly after that. Nowadays there is no affinity between riders, clubs and fans. As one rider said, they are self-employed and will take any job they're offered. The sport is there simply to pay riders mortgages than to form fan affiliation. That is no good when you expect fans to be attracted because it's a team sport. Another problem is riders admitting they have joined your club because it fits in with their other commitments. It is clear to see. Teams are built for the now, without an eye on the future. Fans are now brought up living for that season Play-Off push, and then teams all start again without trying to build a bond and establishing teams for the future. You may as well throw the riders' names in the air right now and see where they land for next season.

It was an issue when race nights clashed between the leagues but now we have fixed race nights for the top league it’s really not.

I'd suggest they earn their position on merit, not just to fill a certain quota of riders per team and because they have a certain average that fits. It is blatently obvious in recent years riders have been rushed through the system far too quickly as a cost saving measure. They don't perform, they get the sack and the team signs another rider and the story goes on and on. The rider whose been scoring next to nothing confidence is shot to pieces and they take a break from the sport. As long as it keeps cutting costs and watering the product down further whilst admission prices continue to rise (pro rata to the standard on offer) then that is absolutely fine apparently.

Rent and running costs at Newcastle are high to start with so you start on the back foot.... the National League needs to be what it was supposed to be 10 quid a point 10 pence a mile training ground for new riders... you have riders in all three leagues currently which in my personal opinion is wrong... in the league we are in do we really want to see Danny Phillips ride against Cookie... not for me thanks... as S4S states above adhere to fair play rules and financial fair play rules as well but it won't happen because the governing body are weak and self serving... it was mentioned about taking Newcastle into the NL but could that be sustained by the current waning crowd levels and you still need 160 punters through the door at ten quid just to pay the rent (actually nearer 200 when you add in the VAT)... Also I remember some of the Gems meetings which were like the Somme battle field with bodies lying all over the track ambulances running round like a circular bus route (No 19 springs to mind) and meetings taking hours to complete... Brough has never been a sympathetic track to the novice rider... Also I'm hearing Danny Phillips has signed for Redcar and if true I think that's the writing on the wall... Good night Vienna... I do so hope I am wrong... Regards THJ

Something I have long advocated. Would require some special rules for clubs joining leagues, but those are not insurmountable.

The rumoured team is going to be correct isn’t it. Not a play-off team imo.

Karol Baran.

No2 in particular would be a massive move forward when planning in fixtures.. Let's be honest, doubling up is there for the riders to justify their outlay on kit and to make money, rather than a 'necessary evil' . Teams could simply reduce how many riders were in a team if it was simply down to there not being enough to go round, and at the same time putting clear demarcation between the league standards for progession purposes.. Therefore, it looks like it's here to stay and with FRN in situ both leagues should be able to run a regular and consistent fixture list if they only allowed DU'ing to those not riding in leagues outside of the UK.. In short. DU'ing means riders can earn more money and that's fine. However it shouldn't impact fixture planning by the teams as this impacts attendances.

No he's two million miles away... av offered twice and been knocked back... sorry to say there wont be a third time... It's to late... where's the riders... where's Dandelion when you need her... there ain't any one left of note to build a team around... a said a few weeks back that a was worried... even more so now... Pull the accounts for Newspeed off the Companies House web site and if anyone can square the circle send me a PM and I will stick some cash in... or at least more than I have over the last nine years... Here's a plea 10 companies or individuals set up a trust stick 5 grand each in each and pledge to do it for the next 3 years and that will potentially keep the place afloat... do that and I am in but you need to be aware that this will basically only cover the stadium rent of around 1600 quid which I believe is the second highest in the country and the medical cover of around a grand for an 18 home meetings season... Or find one person or company to stick in 50k but who would do that without wanting some control... Never say never but I honestly think we are at the nearly stage and here's another one... if as rumoured George walks will all his pals walk with him... from turnstile operators to track staff... that leaves one hell of a gap at the club... I'm putting wads of cash on that Euro and if I cop the lot it will be no problem but my company isn't big enough to back a Speedway team... oh but I wish it was... I am prepared to help but can't do it on my own unfortunately... Over to anyone else out there... (if it helps there is one other chap I have spoken to who is a genuine guy and two other possibilities) (So six more required) Regards THJ

Yes, that was daft. But it doesn’t mean that all innovation is.

That's all very well, but top guys want big money, signing on fees, vans etc, with crowds that British Speedway are getting where is the money coming from, most of the riders ride in both leagues anyway, (not Doyle of course), so if Somerset go for the top riders and pay big money, would that make you attend? if so you may enjoy it for the season, as after that the club would probably go bust.

Wolves run the olympique which is a handicapped staggered start.cracking racing.

Excellent signing,improving rider who rides Ashfield well.

That's fine and, am sure your not alone. I would give it a go, if it was the only option available. Sometimes you've gotta smash it all to bits before you get it right A think the problem we have is the fact that the track is not fully available and, the rent of course.

Me matey, having heard 'rumors' from top people... we won't be too bad.. top 6 finish and a playoff place for us I reckon

...and as I've mentioned so many times in the past Oxford's connection with both Eastbourne and Peterbrough drew tremendous dividends and it continued when the "Rebels' moved to Wood Lane.

I don't understand it either. We had "doubling up" years ago, and nobody complained, yet now, there are those who want to use it as one of the main problems with the sport.

Isn't it rumoured that each track in the Premiership is getting £50k a season? With a five year deal? Thats £250k 'guaranteed'.. You could do quite a bit of track reshaping with that I would think.. Instead, I fear it will be used to pay more in salaries to riders who won't in five years have progressed the entertainment level of the sport forward in any way that better tracks more conducive to passing would do...

The “ignore” facility is a truly wonderful thing.

Only a bit of spreadsheet speculation fun, whilst waiting on the outcome of the AGM... Built to a 41pts limit, with 2.5% reductions for Cook, Starke and Bailey. As already mentioned within the thread, Sam and Connor would be a strong platform at reserve to build the team from + Cook as the driving force at no.1. Middle order I struggled with..... 1 Cook 9.93 2 3 Starke 6.33 4 Nicol 5.16 5 Wells 7.05 6 Jensen 4.34 7 Bailey 3.03 35.84 5.16

Jari Makkanen

Thought it just said he won't be riding with Kyle Bickley next year

My preference would be fast Freddie

6 man races have been tried years ago. only tracks like Hyde road were safe due to the width of the bends..... others were positively dangerous with 6riders heading in to the bend and insufficient space to be safe. No gimmicks....4 riders .. 4 laps... on well prepared tracks

I see your out from under your stone again its all about opinions at least skidder can debate in which is more than I can say for you

Spot on, I've known the crowds to be bigger at my local track when we finished bottom of the League in the 90's than win the playoffs in the 2000's. Normally most weeks it was losing last heat deciders. It didn't matter some were good years some were not but you still went every week because the product was great. Great racing, passing aplenty, big names , speed, the noise, the smell, crackling atmosphere ,it was brilliant, and I wouldn't be shy to tell anyone. Not the same today, new bikes ( silencers 2010) have killed it, bikes now not suited to the track shape or material. Poor racing , less big names, less noise, no smell and no atmosphere. I like many have drifted away , 30 years every week has now amounted to maybe once a season. Forget the rules, guests , rider replacements, team changes have always been there, its the product that is not good enough. Watch the live matches on BT this year, unless its Belle Vue or a revamped Swindon there is really nothing to see .How bad we the playoffs this year, awful. Unfortunately Belle Vue and Swindon have shown us that most of the traditional old tracks are now not fit for purpose, but unfortunately these promotions don't have the money or authority to make any changes. Unfortunately that's where we at and why the sport in the UK is on its knees.

A great service provided and one which I will never take for granted. For the first time in quite a few seasons I have not been motivated to get off my backside as I mourn the loss of my beloved track and team so I have relied heavily on the updates site as I follow the 'closest ' team to the one I supported since a kid. Well done Sue and your team.xx

Excellent service again this season. Thank you

Best race results and comments you can get for UK speedway. A Big Thank You. Do you request any donations? If so please advise how to do it safely.

Congratulations to Dan who today, in his first ever meeting in Australia, won the Jack Young Trophy. Kyle Bickley was third.

I wouldn't even use kurtzholder as a password, far too weak.