Elite league 2004

[diamonds_are_forever 0]

If this system is meant to balance out teams its stupid!

 

If for example the grades added up to roughly 45 points in the middle of the grade eg. grade A 8-9 points mid point would be 8.5, it would mean that some teams who end up with people all on something.02 or .03, would be 0.5x7 weaker than the 'average speedway team' =3.5 points weaker.

 

In contrast, clubs who splash the cash & get all the good finds on .99 or .98 averages would be 0.5x7 stronger = 3.5 points stronger.

 

Although its unlikely to be this extreme, it is a possibility for teams to start on averages ranging between 41.5-48.5.

 

There could be a difference in points of 7, before a wheel was even turned.

 

What a stupid bloody idea. :roll:

[GREDON 20]

To put riders in Grades A B C etc according to averages is an excellent idea, and has been moted to me before, but is usually thrown out by some promoters. The cut off point for Grade A riders can be determined by the number of teams in the league, if ten teams then the ten top riders in the averages go to Grade A. That way each team will have one rider, perhaps they have them already. If a team did not want a Grade A rider they could have perhaps an additional Bgrade. It has always been silly that an experienced 3point rider has to be slotted in just to get round the points limit, based on averages for the previous season. After all some riders may improve, whilst others may reduce their average.

Also if a guest has to be found there might be a few more available.

No one will be doing away with the averages, so I think the grading might be worth trying for a season. After all the promoters have been moving the goal posts every year.

[Kevin Meynell 2]

To put riders in Grades A B C etc according to averages is an excellent idea

 

I think it's a daft idea, and is simply the points limit in another more unfair form. As others have already pointed out, averages actually become even more critical than before, and you lose the flexibility to formulate your team the way you want (e.g. top-heavy or strong reserves).

 

If the aim is to attract more teams into the BEL and/or reduce costs, you really need limits on top-end strength. However, this could be done by limiting each team to (say) one 8.00+ rider, or imposing a points limit (say 24 points) for the heat-leaders.

[Kevin Meynell 2]

If this system is meant to balance out teams its stupid!

 

It's all pointless tinkering around the edges. There are far more important issues to deal with in speedway, yet the BSPA are seemingly intent on concentrating on trivial issues.

[Brightonbob 0]

As a new boy to speedway (and a total convert) I have to say whoever designed a 15 race speedway meeting was a very clever boy. I love it and even my sport hating missus loves it.

 

Guest riders: However, I still really struggle with guesting GP riders. No other sport does this, cricket for example loses plyers to internationals and has to grin and bare it. I try to explain why Loram is riding for Poole or Nicholls is riding for us to people and they just don't get it. I don't blame them.

 

My feeling is that guesting riders over an ave of 7 points should be strictly limited to (a) teams outside the top four placing in the league (on ave points). This would mean that the bigger clubs, my own beloved Eagles included, would have to carry more depth in a squad. It would also even things up a bit. Further, bit less of a reason to pack your squad with GP riders.

 

SWC: Superb. Can't wait for it to come to England/Wales/Scotland one day. More internationals please.

 

Relegation/promotion: Its in everyones interest in my view and if it means limiting GP riders and lowering the limit, in the end speedway will be the winner.

 

GP: I have not got a downer on the GP and think a lot of moaners ought to support what Benfield Sports are trying to do. Every sport needs a flagship to attract new fans and Sky do it fantastically well.

 

BLC: I've loved it, but the handicapping needs looking at. It needs a better formula as I've seen a few utter thrashing this season.

 

Press: Speedway has to be the best kept secret in the world. I think a weekly highlights program has to be offered to terrestial TV by Sky. Its in both our interests.

 

Crowds: I've been amazed there is so few bikers at speedway. The superbikes circuit is massive business, More has to done to tap into what would be a hugely lucrative group. Get them and sponsorships will follow too.

 

Thats my twopenneth for what its worth except to say thanks to all the promoters from Trelawny to Edingurgh.

[Kevin Meynell 2]

As a new boy to speedway (and a total convert) I have to say whoever designed a 15 race speedway meeting was a very clever boy.

 

Hmm.. I guess you don't remember when meetings comprised 20 heats which took no longer to run than now? In the past ten years, the number of heats has been systematically cut back, with the remaining heats being strung-out longer to make it seem like the same value for money. In addition, admission have gone-up far beyond the rate of inflation, to the extent that we're paying nearly twice as much per heat in real terms nowadays.

 

My feeling is that guesting riders over an ave of 7 points should be strictly limited to (a) teams outside the top four placing in the league (on ave points).

 

I think you either keep guests or get rid of them completely, not complicate the rules further. I favour the latter and believe that more use should be made of squad systems.

 

Relegation/promotion: Its in everyones interest in my view

 

It will simply not work until there are more teams trying to get into the BEL than there are available places. As the top league has had up to 18 teams in the past, the size of the BEL needs to double before we even start considering promotion and relegation.

 

GP: I have not got a downer on the GP and think a lot of moaners ought to support what Benfield Sports are trying to do.

 

Yes, trying to make a profit for their shareholders (basically JP) at everyone else's expense!

 

They effectively pay nothing for the riders, and pay insufficient prize money to allow riders to compete exclusively in the series. Of course, this would not necessarily be a problem if they had a policy of cooperation with the national leagues, but the past year has shown that they have blatant disregard for the competitions that effectively provide their riders.

[witchnut 0]

I've seen Arenas' name mentioned already - who is the other team going to come into the BEL.

 

Witchnut

[Mr Bungle 0]

This just in from BSPA HQ.

 

Next season it has been decided that we are going to trial riders riding the opposite way round the circuit. We feel this will make the sport most exciting.

 

Also the team finishing bottom of each league will be in fact crowned champions.

 

The support speedway receives is so huge we feel encouraging new supporters will hamper the sports future development. We also feel that by completely changing the rules each year it gives teams a fair chance to run their club properly.

 

This is now confirmed as being groundbreaking new in the sport world and many other sports are thinking of following speedways example.

 

Thanks in advance BSPA

[Trees 2,814]

I would prefer quality rather than quantity re the amount of races, if the riders/promotors can provide 15 or even 13 exciting (lots of passing) races the fans will turn out.

 

To me that is the MOST important thing they should be discussing, how to make the racing more exciting!

 

More excitement = more fans??

 

Surely bringing in guest riders for absent top riders is to supposedly give better value for money to the fans and should provide better racing?

 

Having said that IF there was some way of putting the riders out on more equal machinery maybe the use of guest riders wouldn't be so important as anyone in any race could win?

[Kevin Meynell 2]

I would prefer quality rather than quantity re the amount of races

 

Yes, but we're not really getting that either.

 

Surely bringing in guest riders for absent top riders is to supposedly give better value for money to the fans

 

But the guest system has no credibility, not to mention that as every team is affected by injuries over the course of a season, things would tend to balance out over time. Poland and Sweden don't have guests, yet they still draw bigger crowds for the meetings.

 

Having said that IF there was some way of putting the riders out on more equal machinery

 

Hmm... we've had this discussion somewhere else ;-)

[Trevor 270]

The only way to get rid of 'Guests' is for the sport to use a squad system. I am not sure how that would fit with a grading way of team building. You would the have to have two riders signed for every team place, which just could not happen. With averages you can use a squad system, eg if your number 1 was missing you can bring in better riders lower down the team to bring it back up to the 45 limit. Keeping a competitive match but no guests.

The only other way of improving the 'Guest situation' is if clubs had set guests that they always used, but really it does need to be looked at, as we want both a credible sport, but close exciting meetings

[Kevin Meynell 2]

The only way to get rid of 'Guests' is for the sport to use a squad system. I am not sure how that would fit with a grading way of team building.

 

Why would you need to use grading? As to how a squad system might work, the following article appeared in the "Cheetah's Chronicle" a couple of years ago...

 

The BSPA made an announcement in November 2000 that they would consider introducing a squad system in the British Elite League (BEL); possibly from 2002. Whilst this announcement went largely unnoticed, it promises to have a major impact on speedway as we currently know it.

 

Speedway is unlike most other sports in that it does not operate with squads. Each team declares seven riders at the start of the season, and largely keeps the same riders throughout the season. Whilst it is possible to replace riders, their replacements must usually be recruited from elsewhere (e.g. other teams) and the new line-ups must still conform with the points limit. It is therefore impractical to make changes on a regular basis. In the event that team members are unavailable due to injury, illness, suspension or international duty, guest riders may be 'borrowed' from other teams (often in the same league) on per-meeting basis.

 

This rather unique and sometimes confusing system has largely evolved due to the lack of finances, the limited supply of riders, and the fact that riders are only paid when they ride. Nevertheless, despite the obvious problems, it has worked reasonably well for many years. Why should the BSPA consider changing the system now?

 

There are several considerations behind the proposed introduction of a squad system. At one time, riding in the British leagues was a priority for all top riders, but over the years, other national leagues (in Germany, Denmark, Poland and Sweden) have become increasingly competitive whilst offering equal or better money. As a result, it has become common for riders to sign for teams in two or more different countries.

 

Britain still has the advantage of being able to offer riders more meetings than other countries, but the necessity to commit to a large number of meetings has actually dissuaded several top foreign riders from joining British teams. They realise it is possible to make the same money from riding in several other national leagues that allow more flexible schedules.

 

In particular, foreign leagues tend to hold their meetings on designated days (e.g. Tuesdays in Sweden, Sundays in Poland), unlike in Britain where each team has a different race day. This makes it difficult to plan international commitments, and it is not helped by the fact that the British fixture list is generally published after those in other countries.

 

The Grand Prix Series is also making increasing demands on the top riders. British teams currently attempt to schedule their fixtures around the GPs, but these combined with other international fixtures, means that some teams have a very irregular fixture list during the summer months. This is not good for their cash flow, and it means more meetings must be staged during the months when the weather is likely to be adverse. With the planned expansion of the GP Series and the World Team Cup in the future, it will become increasingly difficult for teams to work around the international commitments of their riders.

 

In addition, with the increased media coverage that the five-year agreement with Sky Sports is likely to bring, it is recognised that the existing guest system lacks credibility. No other sport allows individuals to compete for several teams in the same competition, yet this is effectively what happens in speedway. It is difficult to imagine how football fans would react if David Beckham was injured and Manchester United borrowed Dennis Bergkamp for a few matches from nearest rivals Arsenal!

 

Squad systems are used in all the other national leagues because they allow much greater flexibility. Riders do not have to commit to a full league programme, thus allowing them to fit meetings around international commitments such as the GP Series. It also means that guests are unnecessary as teams have additional riders they can use when their first choice riders are injured or otherwise unavailable.

 

So squad systems operate successfully in the other national leagues, but how might they work in practice in Britain? The BEL is slightly different in that teams have more meetings and often ride two or more times each week. In addition, riders not selected for the main team in Denmark, Germany and Sweden, are often able to ride for a reserve or partner team in a lower league. This is not an option for BEL riders due to the way the points limit is implemented, and the restrictions on riders dropping down to the British Premier League (BPL).

 

It is suggested that each team declares a squad of between ten and fourteen riders at the start of the season. The team manager would then be allowed to select any seven riders for each meeting, provided their combined averages did not exceed the points limit (currently 45 points).

 

You would probably need a nucleus of around eight 'full-time' riders who would expect to ride in most meetings. The rest of the squad might then be comprised of riders who normally ride for teams in other leagues, but who could be called-up as necessary.

 

For example, a couple of these riders might be 'substitute foreigners' who normally ride in other national leagues, but who could commit to a handful of meetings or provide cover for injured heat-leaders. The other riders would normally ride for BPL teams, but would be allowed to 'double-up' when their team was not riding. It might even be possible for BEL and BPL teams to make reciprocal arrangements to share a common pool of riders, much like they have in Sweden.

 

It should be pointed-out that squad systems do not solve the shortage of top riders and it may still be difficult for teams to directly replace such riders in the event of injury. Nevertheless, they do allow the option of strengthening the middle or lower-order in lieu of a heat-leader. For example, if a No.1 rider with an average of 9.00 was injured, a 3.00 point rider might also be withdrawn and replaced by a couple of riders with 6.00 point averages.

 

A fundamental change that would have to be made, is that for the purpose of the points limit, riders would have to retain their starting averages (i.e. average from previous season or assessed average) for the entire season. At the present time, new Green Sheet Averages (GSAs) are issued after six meetings and are then updated every month throughout the season.

 

Such a change would be necessary as teams would otherwise be penalised if their riders rode above their starting averages during the season. The downside is that riders experiencing poor form would be stuck with a high average, but this might encourage promoters to give more careful consideration to who they signed at the start of the season. Obviously teams would benefit if riders rode above their starting averages, but the current system allows teams to ride above the points limit anyway.

 

More interestingly, promoters would no longer have any scope to manipulate averages at the beginning of the season in order to strengthen their teams after the first issue of the GSAs. Of course, monthly GSAs could still be issued for the purpose of determining the reserves etc..

 

At the end of the day, would the introduction of a squad system benefit the BEL? There are certainly a number of advantages, but at the same time, the costs of signing the additional riders must be carefully considered. Riders may also be concerned about the possibility of them being dropped at will, as they are not paid when they are not riding.

 

Nevertheless, these concerns could be addressed fairly easily. Many heat-leaders already ride for teams in other national leagues, whilst the second-strings and reserves could be allowed to double-up between the BEL and BPL.

 

In conclusion, squad systems would allow the BEL to accommodate the increasing demands of the GP Series, and would encourage the top riders to keep riding in Britain. Perhaps more importantly, they would enable the sport to gain much-needed credibility by allowing the guest system to be abolished. It's certainly something for BSPA to think about over the coming year!

[Guest Stobart]

Surely this is all this talk of a 'grading' system for riders is nothing more than conjecture based on 'information' emanating from one club? Would it not be advisable to wait until we find out whether it is fact before making alarmist comments and presenting them as fact?

 

Let's just sit calmly at our keyboards until we have the facts from the BSPA conference before we start shooting at them.

Edited November 17, 2003 by Stobart

[Kevin Meynell 2]

Let's just sit calmly at our keyboards until we have the facts from the BSPA conference before we start shooting at them.

I'm quite sure a lot of the proposed rule changes are leaked by the BSPA to test the water. It's therefore in everyone's interests to point out the problems before anything is adopted.

[Lioness 1,454]

I'm quite sure a lot of the proposed rule changes are leaked by the BSPA to test the water. It's therefore in everyone's interests to point out the problems before anything is adopted.

If thats the case it just goes to show that they don't listen when they put forward blinkin stupid GD's as the way ahead despite the large percentage of people who comment telling them its NOT the way ahead