Latvian Gp Saturday 17th August

[Grand Central 2,654]

excellent post, but to be pedantic his mid table finish in 85 was about as expected given a favourable draw and presence of 5 continental riders. and in 88 he wasn't involved in the run off for the title. i think he is pretty well regarded on here at least - i ve seen people rate him ahead of nicki when talking about great danes . would u rank him above or below sudden Sam who also had injury problems a title and multiple rostrum spots? - personally id rank him fractionally higher.

 

No pedantry is fine.

Of course he wasn't in the run-off for the title in 1988, I really didn't write that very well at all.

You are probably right about the 1985 Final; perhaps it was just me and my Dad that were a little surprised by his performance that day. But I do remember us chatting about it in those terms at Odsal that afternoon.

 

Better than Sam or not?

That's an interesting question as I had not really ever thought of them in a 'match-up'..

 

Instinctively I would put JanO ahead.

But if i thought about it little longer and looked facts and figures up I might change that!

 

I went to each of their World Final wins and there is no doubt that while JanO did not face a very distinguished field at Ullevi; he did smash them to pieces. Sam had a rather average afternoon at Pocking and managed to come away as champion.

I had followed Wolves around a fair bit in 1991 and Sam had been absolutely phenominal on many occasions that year. So taking all his injuries into account it just seemed fair, and that a man of that talent deserved at least one title.

 

Thinking back, yes I think Sam was 'worth' one title.

JanO was probably 'worth' the odd one more.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Grand Central

[waiheke1 4,295]

I think the surprise in 85 was his first out win ahead of the much more fancied knudsen . which would have been less of a surprise had it been known in advance what an advantage gate 1 would prove in the early heats. the big surprises that day for me were sudden Sam who made the rostrum and kai nieme , who could have done but for a poor last ride. and going the other way, the performances of lance king and thepre meeting favourite shown Moran.

[Grand Central 2,654]

I think the surprise in 85 was his first out win ahead of the much more fancied knudsen . which would have been less of a surprise had it been known in advance what an advantage gate 1 would prove in the early heats. the big surprises that day for me were sudden Sam who made the rostrum and kai nieme , who could have done but for a poor last ride. and going the other way, the performances of lance king and thepre meeting favourite shown Moran.

 

Yes you are probably spot on about JanO that day. That first race win WAS the eyebrow raiser but as you say the early gate one advantage was strong.

Sam Ermolenko was certainly THE surprise packet that day, no doubt.

Kai Niemi was just some strange enigma, though. He was part under-rated by many and then also part an under-achiever as well!

Having spent a couple of years following Wimbledon whilst at University one had become well versed with his ways and I remember he did score well in the re-opening World Team match at Odsal earlier in the year. So he was less surprising to me.

The Yanks, after their performances in the Overseas at Odsal, I think we all expected more of them. Shooey's failure being particularly disappointing; but I was never a King fan so his score sort of passed me by at the time.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Grand Central

[stratton 1,491]

 

 

Yes you are probably spot on about JanO that day. That first race win WAS the eyebrow raiser but as you say the early gate one advantage was strong.

Sam Ermolenko was certainly THE surprise packet that day, no doubt.

Kai Niemi was just some strange enigma, though. He was part under-rated by many and then also part an under-achiever as well!

Having spent a couple of years following Wimbledon whilst at University one had become well versed with his ways and I remember he did score well in the re-opening World Team match at Odsal earlier in the year. So he was less surprising to me.

The Yanks, after their performances in the Overseas at Odsal, I think we all expected more of them. Shooey's failure being particularly disappointing; but I was never a King fan so his score sort of passed me by at the time.

Knudsen is a bloke who is often forgotten a class act,i would put him up there with the mighty two.Ok his cv does not show it but in that final with Nielsen he was so unlucky but Nielsen had earned his luck.Knudsen for me when he came back from that bad back injury really did reach a high level again a nearly man like Jessup i suppose.

[waiheke1 4,295]

If i had to compare knudsen to someone from that era it would be carter - both had their best result on debut in the 81 final, both were denied a world title by a controversial referring decision, both had careers blighted with injuries. top class rider no doubt, to my mind would be one of four danes in my top ten riders of the 80s.

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

KNUDSEN'S performance at Long Beach in the 1985 World Team Cup Final was one of the best I ever saw ...

[Grand Central 2,654]

KNUDSEN'S performance at Long Beach in the 1985 World Team Cup Final was one of the best I ever saw ...

 

Yes, he was stunning that night especially his win from the back against Bobby Schwartz to get his maximum.

In fact, I saw him net brilliant big-track maximums at The Shay and a stonking 18-pointer at Belle Vue earlier in 1985 and thought that could well be his year.

But at Odsal, just a few weeks after Long Beach, he could barely win a race except against the ho-hopers when he was well out of the running.

Actually he was quite the big disappointment at Odsal that day.

[Humphrey Appleby 13,955]

Actually he was quite the big disappointment at Odsal that day.

 

Knudsen often threatened, but didn't seem to have the ability to pull things out of the bag at crucial times. A good rider, but I wouldn't put him the same league as Nielsen and Gundersen.

 

I felt Ermolenko was quite lucky to win the 1993 Final (at which I was present), given that Nielsen was excluded for passing him and he had an engine failure (or was it chain came off) just before a race was stopped. However, he'd had poor luck on other occasions, so I'm sure few begrudged him a World title.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Humphrey Appleby

[Gavan 5,050]

Knudsen often threatened, but didn't seem to have the ability to pull things out of the bag at crucial times. A good rider, but I wouldn't put him the same league as Nielsen and Gundersen.

 

I felt Ermolenko was quite lucky to win the 1993 Final (at which I was present), given that Nielsen was excluded for passing him and he had an engine failure (or was it chain came off) just before a race was stopped. However, he'd had poor luck on other occasions, so I'm sure few begrudged him a World title.

quite correct Knudsen just seemed to lack that final killer instinct possibly a bit like Leigh Adams.

 

Ermolenko was lucky in Pocking re the engine failure, the Nielsen incident was 50/50. True Sam was a guy people wanted to see win a world crown, but in his last ride i believe he ran a last just cruising round at the back as the title was won already? If thats the case hate to see that as wasnt fair on all the other guys who at that point though it was the last one off final and could have affected gp places

[Humphrey Appleby 13,955]

I CAN at least remember that Jan O also had to contend with some pretty useful fellow countrymen at that time...

 

Yes, but they all have to be beaten. Nielsen and Gundersen managed it, Knudsen did not, and Pedersen had injuries at inopportune times.

[Grand Central 2,654]

Knudsen often threatened, but didn't seem to have the ability to pull things out of the bag at crucial times. A good rider, but I wouldn't put him the same league as Nielsen and Gundersen.

I felt Ermolenko was quite lucky to win the 1993 Final (at which I was present), given that Nielsen was excluded for passing him and he had an engine failure (or was it chain came off) just before a race was stopped. However, he'd had poor luck on other occasions, so I'm sure few begrudged him a World title.

 

I agree on all counts.

But I've always felt that Knudsen lacked the good fortune to have Frank Ebdon in the box in Katowice in '86 like Sam did in Pocking. Not that he was in a great position to win the meeting but that took any chance away.

Hans move in Heat 15 in Poland was every bit as bad as the one that got him excluded in Germany.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Grand Central

[S.B 11]

Hi again !

 

Sorry for my ^USSR speedway infornation blockade^

I want to know more about Jan O Pedersem

 

Maybe such video links

Thanks !