Kenny Carter Dvd.

[iris123 20,982]

Tbf, in 78 davey's average was around the tenth best, so he would have been a number one at most teams that year.

Most other seasons though he would have been a second or third heatleader regardless of team. I note also that he never made the podium of the golden sovereign meeting at ipswich, wheras sanders/louis were most years. Davey was good, but not of the very highest standard.

That is the thing though,if you compare Harris and Davey you have to do it over more than the best season of their career.It was also a time when it was quite easy to up your average by changing teams for instance.I remember Mick Hines was 4th or so at Ipswich behind all those three and came to a poor Wimbledon team and upped his average quite considerably i think

[stratton 1,491]

Ha ha.You've convinced me He challenged for a helmet and in a two man race did well

Are you being a twit or not?

They were pretty nice i give you that.But davey was the third best rider in the team and in a lot of other teams he would have been the third best rider.In a couple maybe 4th best and in a couple maybe 2nd best.That was his level and at world level he wasn't really on the radar.And you'd be a complete fool not to recognise that

Not a fool and ask Davey fans family and sponsors Ipswich fans whether he was a mug or not,remember what BERRY said he knows more in his left hand than you will ever know.So Iris get off your high horse have a think and maybe you might come up with something i doubt it !!

[The White Knight 9,039]

Are you being a twit or not? Not a fool and ask Davey fans family and sponsors Ipswich fans whether he was a mug or not,remember what BERRY said he knows more in his left hand than you will ever know.So Iris get off your high horse have a think and maybe you might come up with something i doubt it !!

I agree sidney - I would never claim that Tony Davey was the best Rider I ever saw ride for Ipswich - but - he was damned good. He was certainly among the better Riders of that era. Personally I believe that - with his passing ability - he would have been pretty good today too.

 

Sadly - we can never prove these things.

[waiheke1 4,295]

No one is saying he wasnt a good rider. But in that era where would he rank - just inside thr top 50 riders of the decade?

In comparison, I suspect harris would be top 30 riders of the first decade of the 2000s

[stratton 1,491]

No one is saying he wasnt a good rider. But in that era where would he rank - just inside thr top 50 riders of the decade?

In comparison, I suspect harris would be top 30 riders of the first decade of the 2000s

is he ?

[The White Knight 9,039]

No one is saying he wasnt a good rider. But in that era where would he rank - just inside thr top 50 riders of the decade?

In comparison, I suspect harris would be top 30 riders of the first decade of the 2000s

And I suspect that Davey would possibly be top 30 these days too. As I said - there simply isn't the Competition around these days.

 

I would grant you that Riders, in general, are more professional these days - though Ivan Mauger might argue with that. But I still believe that most of the top Riders were better then. As I have said before we can't win an argument at International level these days, back in the 'Seventies' it was a different matter. You actually had Riders fighting for places in the Team. Nowadays they largely pick themselves, because - the sad fact of life is - there is nobody else.

 

Finally, there were a good few Riders around who were not International regulars in those days, but were of International class, and were not automatic 'picks'. Nobody like that around now.

[waiheke1 4,295]

Twk - your argument seems to be based on tbe standard of british riders and riders in uk. I would agree it is considerably weaker.

But denmark, poland, russia and Australia are all considerably stronger. I disagree that at a global level speedway is weaker gban previously.

By my ranking system, freddie lindgren was 30th best rider in the world in 2014. Was davey as good as lindgren? Personally I don't believe so.

as an example twk: mjj kenny bjerre hans andersen pawlicki brothers gollob zmarzlick are all riders who are not automatic picks for their nations. You cant tell me they are not international class?

[The White Knight 9,039]

Twk - your argument seems to be based on tbe standard of british riders and riders in uk. I would agree it is considerably weaker.

But denmark, poland, russia and Australia are all considerably stronger. I disagree that at a global level speedway is weaker gban previously.

By my ranking system, freddie lindgren was 30th best rider in the world in 2014. Was davey as good as lindgren? Personally I don't believe so.

as an example twk: mjj kenny bjerre hans andersen pawlicki brothers gollob zmarzlick are all riders who are not automatic picks for their nations. You cant tell me they are not international class?

I am not saying they are not. What I am saying, and yes I am talking British League here that the British League of the Seventies was way stronger than the Elite League, both in British Riders and International Riders. You could make two reasonably decent seven man British Teams out of the Riders who were eligible to Ride for Great Britain both of which would give a good account of themselves (they may not both win, but they would put on a good display) - we cannot even make one decent four man Team that can be competitive in the SWC these days. On top of that - all of these British Riders were riding against the very top International Riders in the World every week in those days - not 'Doubling Up' Premier League Riders.

 

Yes - I am discussing Britain because that is largely the way the Discussion is going. The comparative state of British Speedway in the Seventies and today.

Edited December 28, 2014 by The White Knight

[waiheke1 4,295]

Ok but you stated that davey would be 30th in the world today because the standard is lower. That implies you are talking global standard.

Everyone agrees that british standards are lower now than in the 70s (comparable to world standards).

[BWitcher 12,453]

Alright people... just had some weird message, causing me to interrupt my Christmas... someone on here saying that Chris Harris is a better rider than Tony Davey.

 

Come on guys... let's be serious. I know it's the time for fancy jumpers, those Santa hats... it's all a laugh.

 

But.. and I know it was tongue in cheek... Harris better than Davey?

 

It's like saying.. New Year is better than Christmas. The current Band Aid is better than the 1984 version...

 

Carry on....

 

But I'm being kept informed.

 

Ah here comes another deluded one.

Far better Riders then, in general, then though. That is indisputable.

 

You had to be really good to shine in those days. Much easier to shine these days as there is not much competition.

 

No you didn't have to be really good to shine.

 

That has already been proven.

 

An average rider would look like a star in those days, whereas now, even in the weaker set up off the EL, an average rider looks barely average.

 

What has also been proven is that although there were more TOP level riders in the British League in the 70's, due to the format it is actually FAR harder now to obtain a high average than it was back then.

 

The fast track system has muddied the waters somewhat, but prior to that, reserves in the modern EL are of a higher level than in the 70's.

 

On a worldwide basis, the overall standard of rider is higher now than it was in the 70's,

Edited December 29, 2014 by BWitcher

[stratton 1,491]

Ah here comes another deluded one.

 

 

No you didn't have to be really good to shine.

 

That has already been proven.

 

An average rider would look like a star in those days, whereas now, even in the weaker set up off the EL, an average rider looks barely average.

 

What has also been proven is that although there were more TOP level riders in the British League in the 70's, due to the format it is actually FAR harder now to obtain a high average than it was back then.

 

The fast track system has muddied the waters somewhat, but prior to that, reserves in the modern EL are of a higher level than in the 70's.

 

On a worldwide basis, the overall standard of rider is higher now than it was in the 70's,

Not in the EL they ain't , !

[customhouseregular 1,651]

Today's machinery is of a higher standard, as is technical back-up, track preparation and fitness levels. Previous generation riders competed with what they had then, today's riders compete with what they have now. Today's riders have an advantage which lifts the overall standard but if riders from the 60's/70's had the same advantage, their standard would have been higher.

[BWitcher 12,453]

Today's machinery is of a higher standard, as is technical back-up, track preparation and fitness levels. Previous generation riders competed with what they had then, today's riders compete with what they have now. Today's riders have an advantage which lifts the overall standard but if riders from the 60's/70's had the same advantage, their standard would have been higher.

 

No, that wouldn't be the case at all.

 

There are countless examples across all sports of athletes/competitors who have a lot of talent, but lack the dedication that is required to succeed in their given sport. Had they been around in an era of 20-30 years ago, they would have been fine.

 

By the same token there will be competitors from bygone eras who simply wouldn't have been able to adapt.. others such as Mauger most certainly would.

 

Besides, your argument defeats itself in that the level of professionalism WAS there in the 70's, but only from a select few of the riders. Now that level is far more widespread.

Not in the EL they ain't , !

 

There are less of the worlds elite riders riding in the EL, but the 'standard' is an ambiguous term.

 

The reality is, the 'standard' of riders in the EL, head to head with those in the BL of the 70's is far higher.

 

The 'standard' compared to other riders of their era is lower.

Edited December 29, 2014 by BWitcher

[stratton 1,491]

No, No,No, i went to Hyde Rd and The Shay in the 80s Courtney,Mckinna,Holloway,Glanz also at The Shay Hunter,Willmott,Holloway,Glanz heat 2 races two races often you might of scored zilch and were on your way home.You have a rethink and then get back to me .

[waiheke1 4,295]

Bwitcher already acknowledged that ftr reserves may be weaker than their predecessors.

fwiw, glanz was rubbish round hyde rd.

courtney hunter and willmott spent very little time at reserve as they quickly gained/regained second string status. And courtney was part of the strongest (in depth) aces side of that era. You could have named instead crang ayres whittaker graves and it doesnt look so strong.