waiheke1 4,295 Posted November 4, 2016 But you will need to deduct 20% VAT from your 20k (all automated at BV so cannot fudge those numbers) which immediately leaves you down to 16k. And 2000 paying adults was very much a rarity, most matches at best I would say circa 1400 Finding the rent would be nigh on impossible on the numbers... I stopped at 15 quid as I assumed that was the net of vat average sale.It was also based on assumption that business case may have assumed 2000 per meeting. IF it was 1400 then that's another 9k short per meeting, so looking at close to 200k over a season. And that could well be part of the issue, as surely the plan for this stadium must have been crowds of 2k plus per meeting Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ouch 1,191 Posted November 4, 2016 If it's not Belle Vie people that take over then that's me done. If I thought the new lot had anything to do with what's gone on this past week or two then I wouldn't have anything to do with them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheReturn 1,724 Posted November 4, 2016 Can someone summarise what's happened? I assumed the new stadium meant long term plans were in place for speedway, not clear from the press reports what's gone wrong. Shame this is what got speedway trending on Twitter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Little Thumper 528 Posted November 4, 2016 Can someone summarise what's happened? I assumed the new stadium meant long term plans were in place for speedway, not clear from the press reports what's gone wrong. Shame this is what got speedway trending on Twitter. I think the Manchester Evening News sums it up pretty well:- http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/belle-vue-aces-lose-stadium-12123221 If it's not Belle Vie people that take over then that's me done. If I thought the new lot had anything to do with what's gone on this past week or two then I wouldn't have anything to do with them. Hey, Ouch. Let's hope something can be sorted out for all concerned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,276 Posted November 4, 2016 (edited) I stopped at 15 quid as I assumed that was the net of vat average sale. It was also based on assumption that business case may have assumed 2000 per meeting. IF it was 1400 then that's another 9k short per meeting, so looking at close to 200k over a season. And that could well be part of the issue, as surely the plan for this stadium must have been crowds of 2k plus per meeting To be fair to the Aces, crowds were significantly up on those delivered at the dog bowl. They even reduced the standing admission... However if the business plan was for 2000 adults (and I would have thought looking at the numbers that would have been ballpark) then I would suggest it was nothing but a pipe dream... That would have been approx 150% increase on the old place... Simply wasn't going to happen... Sadly the sport has lost so many punters through either incompetence of those who run it, lack of sporting integrity or simply age and mortality of its punters due to its demographic, that turning the situation around will take real marketing skill and need the talents of professionals, not the well meaning amatuers that so many tracks run with... 2000 out of a conurbation of 2.8 million all within 45 mins must be achievable for a unique sporting occasion you would think. The evidence over the past 20 years or so does though prove otherwise unfortunately.. Even the British GP can only attract circa 45000 out of 60 million which says it all... Edited November 4, 2016 by mikebv 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Little Thumper 528 Posted November 4, 2016 Craig Cook doesn't seem to share your opinion of Chris Morton, but I'm assuming, unlike you, he is aware of the other side of the story, which is horrific. Some of it will seep out as rumours but I expect payments will be made with gagging clauses to protect the contractors, the council and certain members of the bspa. What, some kind of a cover-up? I think I'll give Panorama a ring. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,984 Posted November 4, 2016 By the sound of it the Council don't want to see speedway not running there either and by working together with some sort of consortium it can still continue. As I have previously said, needs BSI (World Team Cup rounds, Finals) and the FIM (GP Challenge, Under 21 Finals) to help by putting top meetings there. It is easy to throw darts at Gordon and Morton (who has probably lost everything) now but let's not forget they did bring the stadium into fruition. It is great that Manchester Council want speedway to continue.Be a bit weird not to after just building a new stadium though.... As for big meeting Phil,Belle Vue aren't the only ones in the queue.Sure other countries and stadiums also want their share and i'd guess a lot go to those willing to put up some money.maybe even out bid others.Plus there really are only a few meetings that will really attract a decent crowd and it seems the BSPA don't want what could be a great meeting in one of the SEC finals...... Plenty of people were doubtful about this project from the early days.It looks like,with good reason.Fingers crossed someone who knows what they are doing takes over Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arthur cross 492 Posted November 4, 2016 Craig Cook doesn't seem to share your opinion of Chris Morton, but I'm assuming, unlike you, he is aware of the other side of the story, which is horrific. Some of it will seep out as rumours but I expect payments will be made with gagging clauses to protect the contractors, the council and certain members of the bspa. Craig Cook's a very good rider but I'm still not going to lose any sleep over whether he has a different view to mine regarding Chris Morton. Meanwhile, "horrific" is another appropriate word to attach next to "naivety" regarding my view of Chris Morton's business and financial ability. Time and time again, both Morton and Dave Gordon have proved wretchedly unable to listen to constructive advice or criticism from all sorts of angles, whether that be the council, the BSPA, speedway fans or anyone else with a strong connection to the sport. Hence it's become increasingly inevitable that the council and BSPA would act together in tandem in the way they did yesterday. Morton, Gordon and their apologists can bleat all they like about being unlucky or unfortunate or victimised. Yesterday's steps against them were richly deserved, long overdue and, very importantly in my view, not just related to their hapless handling of so much that's gone pear-shaped with the new stadium. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dornier 795 Posted November 4, 2016 The whole Belle Vue experience was off putting from the start ! Long queues waiting for tickets, bags being searched, no food allowed in, not being able to walk fully round the track to the other stands, car parking here there and everywhere , it just didn`t endear you to go back.. It was run too professional for the usual Speedway clientele. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,984 Posted November 4, 2016 Must be about the only club with a full time Press Officer as well.Is that right?And i think the person sort of blagged their way into the job in the first place Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrMungo 708 Posted November 4, 2016 Over recent years, BV have made a few riders (Steve Worrall, Max Fricke spring to mind, but there could be others) assets, have those purchases been finalised, or will they revert back to their previous clubs? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,276 Posted November 4, 2016 Over recent years, BV have made a few riders (Steve Worrall, Max Fricke spring to mind, but there could be others) assets, have those purchases been finalised, or will they revert back to their previous clubs?I think George Carswell paid for any transfers.. He is still a director I believe...(?).. Will all unravel over the next week or so I would think.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Little Thumper 528 Posted November 4, 2016 (edited) I think George Carswell paid for any transfers.. He is still a director I believe...(?).. Will all unravel over the next week or so I would think.. He is still listed as a director of BV Arena Limited. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07608471/officers and is still a director of BVA Holdings Limited:- https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09839065/officers Edited November 4, 2016 by Little Thumper Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trees 2,814 Posted November 4, 2016 The Speedway Family could help Mort and David Gordon with their predicament, if the will was there! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ABS 231 Posted November 4, 2016 He is still listed as a director of BV Arena Limited. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07608471/officers and is still a director of BVA Holdings Limited:- https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09839065/officers And whilst accessing Companies House, take a look at people, click on Gordon and see how many Dissolved/Liquidated businesses he has been associated with. I can't see how there was ever a notion of him being a successful businessman. Morton was sucked in by the dream and it has cost him dearly. Ironically, after Speedway, Morton was a Financial Adviser, but romance triumphed over pragmatism. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
