Tai Woffinden Best Ever!?

[Grachan 7,362]

54 minutes ago, MARK246 said:

When you have a world championship which can be won without winning a race ( second is good enough) it will always have it's detractors.

The fact that to qualify for the system, you use a 5 ride meeting which requires a totally different approach (win at all cost) makes it all seem a total farce.

I wonder if it is possible to win a one-off 20 heat meeting with 5 second places. My guess is you couldn't do it, or would at least need to win a run-off, but it would be interesting to see if it's possible.

[Grachan 7,362]

Just now, MARK246 said:

I don't have the stats for the first question, sorry.

You couldn't win a one off final on 10 points with out winning a run off. So under the old system you needed to win a race unlike the GPs 

Looks like you answered my question before I asked it!

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv 10,706]

23 minutes ago, MARK246 said:

1951 Jack Young 12 points

55  Peter Craven 13 pts

56 Ove Fundin 13 pts

72 Ivan May get 13 pts

73 Jerzy Szczakiel 13 pts

78 Ole Olsen 13 pts

85 Erik Gundersen 13 pts

90 Per Jonsson 13 pts

93 Sam Ermolenko 12 pts

94 Tony Rickardsson 12 pts

 

And how many of those were on 3 or 4 points after 2 rides (if any)......

[iainb 5,016]

17 minutes ago, MARK246 said:

I don't have the stats for the first question, sorry.

You couldn't win a one off final on 10 points with out winning a run off. So under the old system you needed to win a race unlike the GPs 

And what would have happened if they'd both had touched the tapes or had engine failure lol? I've seen races with no finishers before

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv 10,706]

17 minutes ago, MARK246 said:

I don't have the stats for the first question, sorry.

You couldn't win a one off final on 10 points with out winning a run off. So under the old system you needed to win a race unlike the GPs 

Of course it could be won on 10 points without a run off

A very unlikely scenarion but not matmatically impossible

[iris123 20,984]

42 minutes ago, Barney Rabbit said:

1987 in Amsterdam saw a third format for deciding the World Champion, each rider having 5 rides on two consecutive days. After day 1, Sam Ermolenko was leading with 13 points from 5 rides but the eventual winner was Hans Neilsen with a 15 point max to add to his 12 from the previous day, Sam dropping back to fourth over-all with 24 points.

Doesn't make much difference to the discussion but I can't remember it being mentioned yet so thought I'd just mention it now.

 

Wasn’t there a 4th or should really be a second,as pre-war riders took quali points into a Wembley final and the rider that won the final wasn’t crowned champ,but the rider with the most quali+ final points.Think the same was due to happen in the final that never took place due to the outbreak of the war

[iainb 5,016]

6 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

Of course it could be won on 10 points without a run off

A very unlikely scenarion but not matmatically impossible

Could it? I can't be bothered to do the maths tbh, but I agree I think it could... But just as unlikely as it is today for somebody to win the championship without winning a GP round as has only been done once in nearly 25 years when there were only 6 rounds

[MARK246 243]

5 minutes ago, iainb said:

Could it? I can't be bothered to do the maths tbh, but I agree I think it could... But just as unlikely as it is today for somebody to win the championship without winning a GP round as has only been done once in nearly 25 years when there were only 6 rounds

The GP championship can be won with out winning a single race 70 races x2 pts is 140 pts Woffindens total this year 139 pts

[iainb 5,016]

9 minutes ago, MARK246 said:

The GP championship can be won with out winning a single race 70 races x2 pts is 140 pts Woffindens total this year 139 pts

I reckon the lowest score you can win an old style world final on was 9 and then win a run off... Meaning it's possible to get 5 seconds to score 10 to beat that... I'm sure there's a mathematician out there who can prove me right!

... Not to mention progressing through all of the qualifying rounds without winning a race

Edited October 18, 2018 by iainb

[Barney Rabbit 727]

9 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Wasn’t there a 4th or should really be a second,as pre-war riders took quali points into a Wembley final and the rider that won the final wasn’t crowned champ,but the rider with the most quali+ final points.Think the same was due to happen in the final that never took place due to the outbreak of the war

Correct. They added bonus points, calculated on a percentage performance basis, to those scored in the Final.

These points were the rider's actual scores from his qualifying rounds worked out as a percentage of the max possible points he could have scored in those rounds divided by seven (the number of qualifying rounds there were).

[iris123 20,984]

Not really wanting to get into this,but can’t resist.... but didn’t one of the Poles ein the World U21 final on the toss of a coin, because the meeting was called off early?So in theory if the rules were the same,it could be possible a meeting is cut short and a rider or two that haven’t won a heat are tied with one who has and by the toss of the coin one who hasn’t won a heat wins the world final!!!

[iainb 5,016]

2 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Not really wanting to get into this,but can’t resist.... but didn’t one of the Poles ein the World U21 final on the toss of a coin, because the meeting was called off early?So in theory if the rules were the same,it could be possible a meeting is cut short and a rider or two that haven’t won a heat are tied with one who has and by the toss of the coin one who hasn’t won a heat wins the world final!!!

KK I think (The worst ever WU21 Champ, that's a whole new thread )

Edited October 18, 2018 by iainb

[iris123 20,984]

Just now, iainb said:

KK I think

That is who I thought of as well

[Grachan 7,362]

2 minutes ago, iainb said:

I reckon the lowest score you can win an old style world final on was 9 and then win a run off... Meaning it's possible to get 5 seconds to score 10 to beat that... I'm sure there's a mathematician out there who can prove me right!

Which means you could also go through the entire qualifying system and win the final without winning a single race. In fact, it could even be to your advantage to get a low score in some qualifying rounds as it helped your draw in the next round - a tactic Ivan Mauger used to use quite often.

Of course nobody has won a World Championship in either format without winning a race and are never likely to - but it seems it is mathematically possible in both.

[waiheke1 4,295]

55 minutes ago, iainb said:

I reckon the lowest score you can win an old style world final on was 9 and then win a run off... Meaning it's possible to get 5 seconds to score 10 to beat that... I'm sure there's a mathematician out there who can prove me right!

... Not to mention progressing through all of the qualifying rounds without winning a race

You could win with 9 And no run off. It leaves 111 points from 15 riders, so you could have  6 scoring 8, 9 scoring 7. Or a variety of possible combinations.

Technically you could win with 4 points being two second places. Beaten in two races, with the other 18 heats having no finishers.