DC2 11,150 Posted December 18, 2018 2 hours ago, MattK said: The regulations (albeit for 2018) states: "16.2.7 The most recently established MA will be used. If a rider has an established MA in both the Premiership and Championship Leagues, established in the same season, that leagues MA will apply to that league." Therefore, Barker and Bjerre will use their CL MA as it is the most recent. Similarly, the AGM Statement says: "Conversion rate for 2019 will be 1.5" The conversion rate has always worked both ways, otherwise how else do you calculate a rider with a CL average's PL converted average? Yes, all of that makes sense, but 1.5 CL to PL isn’t realistic and it will become more ridiculous as they increase it every year until it gets to 2. It’s a false conversion which doesn’t reflect the difference in ability between the two leagues. In a few years a 5 point assessed Dane will achieve 7 in the CL and then be signed on 3.5 in the PL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattK 3,447 Posted December 18, 2018 28 minutes ago, DC2 said: Yes, all of that makes sense, but 1.5 CL to PL isn’t realistic and it will become more ridiculous as they increase it every year until it gets to 2. It’s a false conversion which doesn’t reflect the difference in ability between the two leagues. In a few years a 5 point assessed Dane will achieve 7 in the CL and then be signed on 3.5 in the PL. Isn't the idea to create a clear difference in quality between the two leagues, so that in five years time a 7-point CL rider will be equivalent to a 3.5-point PL rider? Presumably this will be achieved with low points limits for the CL in combination with an increasing conversion factor to make double-uppers less attractive. Whether this works in reality remains to be seen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv 10,706 Posted December 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, MattK said: Isn't the idea to create a clear difference in quality between the two leagues, so that in five years time a 7-point CL rider will be equivalent to a 3.5-point PL rider? Presumably this will be achieved with low points limits for the CL in combination with an increasing conversion factor to make double-uppers less attractive. Whether this works in reality remains to be seen. It will only work if the multiplier is applied on up to date PL averages Whilst riders continue in both leagues and can maintain these figures independently it will have much less impact Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DC2 11,150 Posted December 18, 2018 15 minutes ago, MattK said: Isn't the idea to create a clear difference in quality between the two leagues, so that in five years time a 7-point CL rider will be equivalent to a 3.5-point PL rider? Presumably this will be achieved with low points limits for the CL in combination with an increasing conversion factor to make double-uppers less attractive. Whether this works in reality remains to be seen. Didn’t Chris Holder and Tai Woffinden come in on half their lower league averages in 2008 and 2009 and win the titles for their clubs? A 2 conversion rate might work if the top league contained GP riders, but not when it’s being dumbed down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PE7Panther 331 Posted December 18, 2018 6 hours ago, NeilWatson said: That wouldn’t be the case under the rules as they stand, as a rider would then have current averages for both leagues so the appropriate one would apply. Lasse and Ben didn’t have a PL average for 2018 so will start 2019 on a converted CL average - Craig, Chris and Charles do have 2018 PL averages so will use those to start 2019. check ... and mate! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PE7Panther 331 Posted December 19, 2018 (edited) This Peterborough Panthers 2019 thread has become inundated with fans of other teams arguing the toss about the rules, and whether or not they are correct or fair. They try hard to mask it with what they hope comes across as reasoned argument and logic - but, sadly for them, it's pretty obvious that there's a lot of sour grapes around! Some people might well feel that certain riders are on a 'wrong' average - but hasn't that always happened in speedway? ForeverBlue hit the nail on the head in his post (qv) when he said: "That is the art of good team building to get a rider that is improving or on what is deemed a false average, the conversion rate system has always thrown up anomalies." Funny thing is though, most of them are never quite so outraged and indignant when it's their own club that has been as shrewd as Ged has this winter. Whatever, this really isn't the correct thread for it. Anyway, back on topic: does anybody know of a single Panthers fan who isn't pleased with the team so far? Or who isn't really looking forward to next season? It's too early to start getting over-confident - not that anybody is - and we just need to keep our fingers crossed that we don't have another injury ravaged season. That's going to be a key factor. Edited December 19, 2018 by PE7Panther 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Irving 393 Posted December 19, 2018 6 hours ago, PE7Panther said: This Peterborough Panthers 2019 thread has become inundated with fans of other teams arguing the toss about the rules, and whether or not they are correct or fair. They try hard to mask it with what they hope comes across as reasoned argument and logic - but, sadly for them, it's pretty obvious that there's a lot of sour grapes around! Some people might well feel that certain riders are on a 'wrong' average - but hasn't that always happened in speedway? ForeverBlue hit the nail on the head in his post (qv) when he said: "That is the art of good team building to get a rider that is improving or on what is deemed a false average, the conversion rate system has always thrown up anomalies." Funny thing is though, most of them are never quite so outraged and indignant when it's their own club that has been as shrewd as Ged has this winter. Whatever, this really isn't the correct thread for it. Anyway, back on topic: does anybody know of a single Panthers fan who isn't pleased with the team so far? Or who isn't really looking forward to next season? It's too early to start getting over-confident - not that anybody is - and we just need to keep our fingers crossed that we don't have another injury ravaged season. That's going to be a key factor. Of course it’s the right thread man! People are commenting on the proposed averages of two riders just signed by Peterborough for 2019. Whether you think they’re way off to question those averages or not is irrelevant, but this is definitely the right thread for them to do so. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve0 5,517 Posted December 19, 2018 6 hours ago, PE7Panther said: This Peterborough Panthers 2019 thread has become inundated with fans of other teams arguing the toss about the rules, and whether or not they are correct or fair. They try hard to mask it with what they hope comes across as reasoned argument and logic - but, sadly for them, it's pretty obvious that there's a lot of sour grapes around! Some people might well feel that certain riders are on a 'wrong' average - but hasn't that always happened in speedway? ForeverBlue hit the nail on the head in his post (qv) when he said: "That is the art of good team building to get a rider that is improving or on what is deemed a false average, the conversion rate system has always thrown up anomalies." Funny thing is though, most of them are never quite so outraged and indignant when it's their own club that has been as shrewd as Ged has this winter. Whatever, this really isn't the correct thread for it. Anyway, back on topic: does anybody know of a single Panthers fan who isn't pleased with the team so far? Or who isn't really looking forward to next season? It's too early to start getting over-confident - not that anybody is - and we just need to keep our fingers crossed that we don't have another injury ravaged season. That's going to be a key factor. Sour grapes? Not a wheel has been turned so I don’t think it is as it may spectacularly backfire like Poole’s starting 7 last season. i don’t think it will backfire - but you never know until they are on the track! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted December 19, 2018 6 hours ago, PE7Panther said: This Peterborough Panthers 2019 thread has become inundated with fans of other teams arguing the toss about the rules, and whether or not they are correct or fair. They try hard to mask it with what they hope comes across as reasoned argument and logic - but, sadly for them, it's pretty obvious that there's a lot of sour grapes around! Some people might well feel that certain riders are on a 'wrong' average - but hasn't that always happened in speedway? ForeverBlue hit the nail on the head in his post (qv) when he said: "That is the art of good team building to get a rider that is improving or on what is deemed a false average, the conversion rate system has always thrown up anomalies." Funny thing is though, most of them are never quite so outraged and indignant when it's their own club that has been as shrewd as Ged has this winter. Whatever, this really isn't the correct thread for it. Anyway, back on topic: does anybody know of a single Panthers fan who isn't pleased with the team so far? Or who isn't really looking forward to next season? It's too early to start getting over-confident - not that anybody is - and we just need to keep our fingers crossed that we don't have another injury ravaged season. That's going to be a key factor. The rules are what they are and your club has done very well.They are a club i am looking forward to see race at the Abbey.With the limited amount of real firepower at the top end ex) Doyley, Lambert, Iversen?? it is exciting that the league could have a strong heat 2 with the likes of Barker- Bjerre-N.B.J.Covatti. a real strong heat like going back to the 80s. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crump99 4,476 Posted December 19, 2018 (edited) Ah it's good to be back although missing Totally Honest John already but didn't manage to shake off Taps who is now in fact a step brother of sorts (Not a favourite Brother of course, Lord no, more of an illegitimate backstairs sprog) Back on topic indeed: 10 hours ago, PE7Panther said: Anyway, back on topic: does anybody know of a single Panthers fan who isn't pleased with the team so far? Or who isn't really looking forward to next season? It's too early to start getting over-confident - not that anybody is - and we just need to keep our fingers crossed that we don't have another injury ravaged season. That's going to be a key factor. I'd agree with that. I just hope that the presentation and atmosphere improves because it has been pretty dire and flat for a while now. To get people in midweek at increased cost means that it has to be better. As Rathbone said: “We know it’s important that we step up in other areas too, and we want to further improve the whole race-night experience for everyone next year." - I suggest that he bends the ear of Bratley (especially) & Andersen. Edited December 19, 2018 by Crump99 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DC2 11,150 Posted December 19, 2018 10 hours ago, PE7Panther said: Some people might well feel that certain riders are on a 'wrong' average - but hasn't that always happened in speedway? ForeverBlue hit the nail on the head in his post (qv) when he said: "That is the art of good team building to get a rider that is improving or on what is deemed a false average, the conversion rate system has always thrown up anomalies." A “wrong” average is always wrong; it is usually down to an anomaly or a bad decision by the BSPA and should be deplored. A promoter spotting an up and coming rider who is likely to improve has a skill that should be admired. Barker and Bjerre are not up and coming riders. Their averages are just prime examples of the BSPA getting it wrong. P.S. The day that foreverblue hits the nail on the head he’ll need a bandage for his thumb. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acef 795 Posted December 19, 2018 15 hours ago, Sidney the robin said: They are decent reserves but Barker ( who i like and enjoy watching is on the wane) Bjerre never been a fan of.Saying that they do look a good partnership but there is a slight niggle there for me that i am not convinced i do prefer Poole reserves. Lasse has been around for a few years now, never really kicked on and has been in the shadow of his brother for a long time. Barker is done. He’s starting at reserve for a reason and younger, hungrier, keener reserves will be beating him comfortably. It reminds of the Rye team this one, and you said this a couple pages back, it feels like a dads army team. I agree. It’s a bit of that, a bit of some riders who are just steady Eddie, and only really BWD who has the potential to seriously improve that avaerage. I mean don’t get me wrong, in a 7 team league it’s going to be in a play off conversation but no way on this planet is that team the strongest one announced. No bias, but BV are so much stronger. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted December 19, 2018 11 minutes ago, acef said: Lasse has been around for a few years now, never really kicked on and has been in the shadow of his brother for a long time. Barker is done. He’s starting at reserve for a reason and younger, hungrier, keener reserves will be beating him comfortably. It reminds of the Rye team this one, and you said this a couple pages back, it feels like a dads army team. I agree. It’s a bit of that, a bit of some riders who are just steady Eddie, and only really BWD who has the potential to seriously improve that avaerage. I mean don’t get me wrong, in a 7 team league it’s going to be in a play off conversation but no way on this planet is that team the strongest one announced. No bias, but BV are so much stronger. I dont see Peterborough winning anything entertaining yes Swindon and Belle Vue are very similar in alot of ways a mixture of youth and exsperience.Between them Fricke, Worrall, Bewley, Lidsey, Musielak, Zach,Ellis, Shanes, can all improve. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve0 5,517 Posted December 19, 2018 56 minutes ago, acef said: It reminds of the Rye team this one, and you said this a couple pages back, it feels like a dads army team. I agree. It’s a bit of that, a bit of some riders who are just steady Eddie, and only really BWD who has the potential to seriously improve that avaerage. I mean don’t get me wrong, in a 7 team league it’s going to be in a play off conversation but no way on this planet is that team the strongest one announced. No bias, but BV are so much stronger. Really? I disagree! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acef 795 Posted December 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Steve0 said: Really? I disagree! I’m sure you won’t be the only one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites