SPOTY

[BWitcher 12,453]

2 hours ago, Mr Snackette said:

In my opinion the key word in Sports Personality of the Year....is personality!!

One key component of being a personality is the ability to be recognised by the public at large.

Now living in Southern Spain, I help organise a weekly "pub quiz" for fellow expats. We start the quiz with a themed photo round, last week entitled Sports Stars of 2018.

There were pictures of the following: Geraint Thomas, Andrés Iniesta, Tom Brady, Luka Modrić, Lizzy Yarnold, Marc Márquez, Lewis Hamilton, Tommy Fleetwood, Luka Dončić, Dina Asher-Smith, James Anderson, Sergio García, Harry Kane, Alberto Contador AND Tai Woffinden.

Over 60 people took part in the quiz. The bottom in the recognition stakes were Dina Asher-Smith (5 right answers), Luka Dončić (3 right answers), Lizzy Arnold (2 right answers). Only one sports star received no correct answers at all.....yes Tai Woffinden! In fairness someone did recognise it was a speedway rider, but thought it was Jason Crump, as that was the only name of a speedway rider he could remember!

Ok I'm not suggesting that the contestants in my quiz were a representative cross-section. However they are keen quizzers with a good general knowledge... yet not one of the could recognise nor name the current world speedway champion!!

 

That says volumes!!!

No it doesn't, it's completely irrelevant again, it's simply a representation of which sports get given press attention and which don't. If you were to follow that line of thinking people like Lizzy Yarnold would never get a mention in events such as this.

There is also no component in 'personality' of being recognised by the public at large.. you've concocted that from somewhere!

Not that the 'personality' part is in any way a 'key' word even when it is applied correctly as their 'personality' has zero influence.. indeed with many sports stars we have little idea of their actual personality. 

I am assuming that you have made this post as a reason why it is justified not mentioning Woffinden.. yet it actually is the argument why he should be mentioned.

Quite simply, British World Champions, in whatever sport it is should be mentioned and given credit for their achievements.

Edited December 28, 2018 by BWitcher

[chunky 6,092]

18 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

Quite simply, British World Champions, in whatever sport it is should be mentioned and given credit for their achievements.

It's not like it would take THAT, long, is it? We are not exactly blessed with dozens of 'em...

I didn't see it, but were Lisa Ashton, Glen Durrant, Steve Holcombe, and Rob Cross mentioned? Like Tai, they SHOULD have been.

Steve

[Mr Snackette 190]

9 hours ago, BWitcher said:

No it doesn't, it's completely irrelevant again, it's simply a representation of which sports get given press attention and which don't. If you were to follow that line of thinking people like Lizzy Yarnold would never get a mention in events such as this.

There is also no component in 'personality' of being recognised by the public at large.. you've concocted that from somewhere!

Not that the 'personality' part is in any way a 'key' word even when it is applied correctly as their 'personality' has zero influence.. indeed with many sports stars we have little idea of their actual personality. 

I am assuming that you have made this post as a reason why it is justified not mentioning Woffinden.. yet it actually is the argument why he should be mentioned.

Quite simply, British World Champions, in whatever sport it is should be mentioned and given credit for their achievements.

Oh dear we have touched a nerve!!

Lizzie Arnold clearly has more recognition and a higher public profile than Woffenden.....I'm not saying that's right or wrong. It's just the way it is. 

The fact that over 60 quizzers in Spain had never heard of, or recognise the world speedway champion, is slamming indictment of the sport.

Add to the list Steve mentioned we have Stuart Smith Junior, Billy Wood, Callum Smith, Charlie Edwards, Josh Warrington etc etc....and I'm sure there are plenty of others who deserve a mention. However the BBC has to produce 2 hours of entertainment, and providing a list of names, no matter how worthy, of people that few have heard of isn't going to cut it!

 

Edited December 29, 2018 by Mr Snackette

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

22 minutes ago, Mr Snackette said:

Oh dear we have touched a nerve!!

Lizzie Arnold clearly has more recognition and a higher public profile than Woffenden.....I'm not saying that's right or wrong. It's just the way it is. 

The fact that over 60 quizzers in Spain had never heard of, or recognise the world speedway champion, is slamming indictment of the sport.

Add to the list Steve mentioned we have Stuart Smith Junior, Billy Wood, Callum Smith, Charlie Edwards, Josh Warrington etc etc....and I'm sure there are plenty of others who deserve a mention. However the BBC has to produce 2 hours of entertainment, and providing a list of names, no matter how worthy, of people that few have heard of isn't going to cut it!

 

If Lizzy Yarnold does have more recognition it's not much more given that only 2 out of more than 60 knew of her, and that's with the benefit of mainstream media coverage that would dwarf Woffinden's. 

Is it an indictment of speedway or of the media coverage of it ?

As I have pointed out, Woffinden isn't just a World Champion he's the only British rider ever to achieve 3 titles and it's therefore a matter of unprecedented success. While I take Sydney's point, it is fair argument that he is the greatest exponent of a sport that Britain has ever produced  (ironically, Lizzy Yarnold is the same). 

I actually think that is worth more than a mere mention.

[fatface 2,554]

39 minutes ago, Mr Snackette said:

Oh dear we have touched a nerve!!

Lizzie Arnold clearly has more recognition and a higher public profile than Woffenden.....I'm not saying that's right or wrong. It's just the way it is. 

The fact that over 60 quizzers in Spain had never heard of, or recognise the world speedway champion, is slamming indictment of the sport.

Add to the list Steve mentioned we have Stuart Smith Junior, Billy Wood, Callum Smith, Charlie Edwards, Josh Warrington etc etc....and I'm sure there are plenty of others who deserve a mention. However the BBC has to produce 2 hours of entertainment, and providing a list of names, no matter how worthy, of people that few have heard of isn't going to cut it!

 

Careful with your facts and reasoned argument there. You are leaving yourself wide open to being told that you are wrong and erm, you just are, so there!

Let's not forget those British world champions from this year's World Equestrian Games, World Paralympic Table Tennis Championships, World Duathlon Championships, World Para Triathlon Championships, World Paralympic Rowing Championships and so on. If it were a year of Paralympic Swimming and Athletics World Championships, SPOTY could make for a five hour bonanza!

There are none so blind that those that won't see. The truth is that outside of it's own bubble, speedway is irrelevant to the wider world. 

Edited December 29, 2018 by falcace

[Spl77 337]

Oh dear still debating this are we.

Can we just except that speedway is a minority sport that struggles to attract a combinded audience of 20k a week from all its venues and that the mainstream press and 99% of the general public have no Idea what speedway is or who Tai Woffinden is. 

Just to show how important it is almost a month on and I have no Idea who one and to honest don't really care. 

I'd better not even get you lot started on the new years honours list! 

[Spl77 337]

32 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said:

If Lizzy Yarnold does have more recognition it's not much more given that only 2 out of more than 60 knew of her, and that's with the benefit of mainstream media coverage that would dwarf Woffinden's. 

Is it an indictment of speedway or of the media coverage of it ?

As I have pointed out, Woffinden isn't just a World Champion he's the only British rider ever to achieve 3 titles and it's therefore a matter of unprecedented success. While I take Sydney's point, it is fair argument that he is the greatest exponent of a sport that Britain has ever produced  (ironically, Lizzy Yarnold is the same). 

I actually think that is worth more than a mere mention.

It's an indictment of the sport of speedway unfortunately. 

The way the media covers the sport is a direct result of how speedway has governed it's self over at least the last 30 years..... The old saying reap what you sow! 

 

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

On ‎12‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 1:14 AM, BWitcher said:

No there isn't, there is zero comparison.

Perhaps the irony is that the choice of Lizzy Yarnold has not been criticised or opposed by anyone.

As such, it seems to me that everyone is entirely in favour of nomination  of a British sportsman whose achievement is unprecedented even if the sport is a tiny minority one (Me included, I would say).

Unless that sport is called speedway, when it isn't even worth a mention 

Edited December 29, 2018 by Halifaxtiger

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

20 minutes ago, Spl77 said:

's an indictment of the sport of speedway unfortunately. 

The way the media covers the sport is a direct result of how speedway has governed it's self over at least the last 30 years..... The old saying reap what you sow! 

 

I think that it is more to do with how the media have been treated on occasion - Phil Rising has mentioned  a few horror stories in his time.

Having said that, I would say that even in its hey day speedway never attracted the media coverage that it deserved.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Halifaxtiger

[BWitcher 12,453]

2 hours ago, Mr Snackette said:

Oh dear we have touched a nerve!!

Lizzie Arnold clearly has more recognition and a higher public profile than Woffenden.....I'm not saying that's right or wrong. It's just the way it is. 

The fact that over 60 quizzers in Spain had never heard of, or recognise the world speedway champion, is slamming indictment of the sport.

Add to the list Steve mentioned we have Stuart Smith Junior, Billy Wood, Callum Smith, Charlie Edwards, Josh Warrington etc etc....and I'm sure there are plenty of others who deserve a mention. However the BBC has to produce 2 hours of entertainment, and providing a list of names, no matter how worthy, of people that few have heard of isn't going to cut it!

 

No nerve touched, you're just embarrassing yourself by talking about the state of the sport.... again.

The state of the sport is not what is being discussed. Nobody disputes that the sport at LEAGUE level in the UK is in a poor state. However, that is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand which is recognising British World Champions across all sports.

As for your last out of touch statement, you'll find that fans of the sports/competitors you list are also disappointed at the lack of mention of their performers. Total them all up and you have quite a significant % of people. One of the reasons for the declining popularity of the show.


 

[BWitcher 12,453]

1 hour ago, falcace said:

Careful with your facts and reasoned argument there. You are leaving yourself wide open to being told that you are wrong and erm, you just are, so there!

Let's not forget those British world champions from this year's World Equestrian Games, World Paralympic Table Tennis Championships, World Duathlon Championships, World Para Triathlon Championships, World Paralympic Rowing Championships and so on. If it were a year of Paralympic Swimming and Athletics World Championships, SPOTY could make for a five hour bonanza!

There are none so blind that those that won't see. The truth is that outside of it's own bubble, speedway is irrelevant to the wider world. 

And again more nonsense quoting the same ridiculous statement.

Most sports are irrelevant to the wider world if you aren't a fan including those that you have listed. Just as with Woffinden, any World Champions in those sports deserved a mention. A simple 2 min segment akin to the 'those that passed away' would have sufficed and appeased fans of all of those sports. In its heyday the show did just that, it received far less criticism and sports fans enjoyed learning of our other World Champions.

The only blind people who cannot see are those who keep repeating speedway is a minority sport as if it is something we're not aware of.

 

Edited December 29, 2018 by BWitcher

[iwright71 206]

14 hours ago, Mr Snackette said:

In my opinion the key word in Sports Personality of the Year....is personality!!

One key component of being a personality is the ability to be recognised by the public at large.

Now living in Southern Spain, I help organise a weekly "pub quiz" for fellow expats. We start the quiz with a themed photo round, last week entitled Sports Stars of 2018.

There were pictures of the following: Geraint Thomas, Andrés Iniesta, Tom Brady, Luka Modrić, Lizzy Yarnold, Marc Márquez, Lewis Hamilton, Tommy Fleetwood, Luka Dončić, Dina Asher-Smith, James Anderson, Sergio García, Harry Kane, Alberto Contador AND Tai Woffinden.

Over 60 people took part in the quiz. The bottom in the recognition stakes were Dina Asher-Smith (5 right answers), Luka Dončić (3 right answers), Lizzy Arnold (2 right answers). Only one sports star received no correct answers at all.....yes Tai Woffinden! In fairness someone did recognise it was a speedway rider, but thought it was Jason Crump, as that was the only name of a speedway rider he could remember!

Ok I'm not suggesting that the contestants in my quiz were a representative cross-section. However they are keen quizzers with a good general knowledge... yet not one of the could recognise nor name the current world speedway champion!!

 

That says volumes!!!

Would any of your quizzers have been able to identify any of England's  netball team who won 2 awards at SPOTY

[Grachan 7,362]

8 hours ago, Mr Snackette said:

Oh dear we have touched a nerve!!

Lizzie Arnold clearly has more recognition and a higher public profile than Woffenden.....I'm not saying that's right or wrong. It's just the way it is. 

The fact that over 60 quizzers in Spain had never heard of, or recognise the world speedway champion, is slamming indictment of the sport.

Add to the list Steve mentioned we have Stuart Smith Junior, Billy Wood, Callum Smith, Charlie Edwards, Josh Warrington etc etc....and I'm sure there are plenty of others who deserve a mention. However the BBC has to produce 2 hours of entertainment, and providing a list of names, no matter how worthy, of people that few have heard of isn't going to cut it!

 

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make regarding Lizzy Yarnold. She provided, for me, possibly my favourite sporting moment of the year. Yet only 2 people in your quiz recognised her! Not sure what thst says about your quizzers!

But you seem to think people should be surprised that a double Olympic champion would have a higher profile than a World speedway champion. Not a chance.

Ask a similar sample of people in the 1970s to recognise Ivan Mauger, by the way, and there's a pretty good chance you would get the same result. A lot more people would have known John Curry.

Out of interest, you say you are in Spain. What sort of public profile does Ana Currasco have there? Would she have been easily recognisable?

Edited December 29, 2018 by Grachan

[fatface 2,554]

6 hours ago, BWitcher said:

Most sports are irrelevant to the wider world if you aren't a fan including those that you have listed. Just as with Woffinden, any World Champions in those sports deserved a mention. A simple 2 min segment akin to the 'those that passed away' would have sufficed and appeased fans of all of those sports. 

Appeasement. Yes, who wouldn't watch a good two hours of appeasing television?

Where exactly are you drawing the line on this for British world champions?  Will cheese rolling get a mention? Wife carrying perhaps? Perhaps the appeasement should also extend to the section for those who passed away? There must have been hundreds of former professional footballers, rugby players, athletes, boxers and cricketers and so on who have passed on in 2018. It seems that is only reserved for those of national and international significance, just like, erm everything else on SPOTY. 

If SPOTY did serve up the type of exercise you are championing - a box ticking exercise to appease and untwist the knickers of the easily offended from every minority sport, then it truly would become an irrelevance. Wheelchair curling. Tick. Stock Car Racing. Tick. Blind Golf. Tick. The list goes on and on....

Instead, it still watched by 9m people, a five figure live audience, is front page news and it still winds you up weeks later.

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, falcace said:

Appeasement. Yes, who wouldn't watch a good two hours of appeasing television?

Where exactly are you drawing the line on this for British world champions?  Will cheese rolling get a mention? Wife carrying perhaps? Perhaps the appeasement should also extend to the section for those who passed away? There must have been hundreds of former professional footballers, rugby players, athletes, boxers and cricketers and so on who have passed on in 2018. It seems that is only reserved for those of national and international significance, just like, erm everything else on SPOTY. 

If SPOTY did serve up the type of exercise you are championing - a box ticking exercise to appease and untwist the knickers of the easily offended from every minority sport, then it truly would become an irrelevance. Wheelchair curling. Tick. Stock Car Racing. Tick. Blind Golf. Tick. The list goes on and on....

Instead, it still watched by 9m people, a five figure live audience, is front page news and it still winds you up weeks later.

It would be hard to name a stock car world champion simply because there is not and never has been one.