British Selection For 2007

[Hazzman 72]

I am going to take the top 3 averages of each league, the league which has the lowest three should be the hardest.

 

 

UK

Crump 11.28, Adams 10.61, Andersen 10.52

32.31

 

Sweden

Adams 10.51, N.Pedersen 10.35, Hancock 9.74

30.60

 

Poland

Crump 10.65, N.Pedersen 10.15, Hancock 9.88

30.68

 

How come Crump, Adams and Andersen find so much easier to acculamate a bigger average in UK because the opposition is weaker.

[Subedei 0]

Not bad but all the current top 8 ride in UK.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Would you care to enlighten me as to where in the UK Andreas Jonsson rides?

[arnieg 3,698]

Which of the three questions are you trying to answer?

Either you didn't understand the question or you are just thick?

 

For your benefit here are the questions again

 

How many of the top eight in the GP don't ride in the EL?

 

How many of the 'big riders' (but not quite big enough because they don't ride in the EL) don't ride in the EL?

 

Who was the last World Champion not to have ridden in UK?

 

Each question requires a numerical answer please, I'll give you a clue, the answer to question is less than 1.

 

No extra marks will be awarded for talking bo!!ock$

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well it is hardly worth having a discussion with someone who has so little regard for facts.

 

You seem to get really upset when evidence is presented that challenges your preconceived position

 

I understood your statement perfectly well and how can you call me thick without knowing anything about me other than the fact that I have the temerity to suggest that there may be flaws in your arguement

[Subedei 0]

Much like Jimmy Saville last season I think the answer to your question is Arena, I'll just check..........

 

Yes here it is

 

7.78 ~ Andreas Jonsson (Arena Essex…SWE…26) after 18 rides

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

After 18 rides? 18 rides? You class 18 rides as riding in the UK? Sorry, but that's risible. And Andreas Jonsson missed roughly half Arena Essex's meetings during his stay with the club.

 

Can we now get back to the subject that Steady should be given a wildcard next season?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Do you SERIOUSLY want to make British speedway a laughing stock by having Simon Stead in the GPs - he'll never ever be GP standard.

[RandleTheBee 0]

Seems people have deviated from the point of this thread.

 

My brother does exactly the same thing as what is going on in this thread.

 

When he is losing in a discussion, he changes the subject and defends his point on that rather than the original point people were discussing.

 

You then carry on arguing over some small petty thing you forget what it is you were talking about in the first place.

 

I believe this is called 'Deflecting'

[Hazzman 72]

Seems people have deviated from the point of this thread.

 

My brother does exactly the same thing as what is going on in this thread.

 

When he is losing in a discussion, he changes the subject and defends his point on that rather than the original point people were discussing.

 

You then carry on arguing over some small petty thing you forget what it is you were talking about in the first place.

 

I believe this is called 'Deflecting'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not really.

 

We were just proving what the strongest league was, thereby taking into an account that a rider being a better quality than another one would be show in his Swedish and Polish averages.

 

Which Harris does over Stead.

[Hazzman 72]

Much has been made of the averages of riders in the three leagues, apparently lower averages prove a higher standard.

 

Just to avoid any doubt, you are comparing like with like. i.e. 7 man teams racing each other team home and away over 15 heats twice in the season, aren't you?

 

As a matter of interest why is Lee Richardson's average higher in Sweden than UK?

 

Oh, I see the EL is a higher standard   

 

Let’s face it you have failed miserably to disprove the fact that the best, most demanding and truly representative league in the speedway world is in UK.

 

Thanks for coming

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have presented a decent fact, Richardson obviously feels more at home in Sweden and has been struggling in UK. The top riders on the form seem to score points in the EL than anywhere else, why? You didnt find that answer.

 

Just look at some the EL's also-rans, how valued they are abroad, they are simply also-rans.

 

The averages which you say are debateable because of 7 man teams, Poland rides with 8 man teams, many times the 8th spot is blank because they have one scheduled ride and Sweden despite the extra heat have a long and complication way of levelling the average off.

 

Most of all, have you ever seen a match from abroad in Sweden and Poland? You see these bore-fests which come on Sky, quite a few I may add from your home track. One rider storms off from the gate, leaving others behind. Then elsewhere its racing, in and out of each other. I will happlily count the passes for you from the Elite League Play-Off Final 2005 and then the E-liga Play-off Final 2005.

 

 

One example, Tomasz Chranowski, he's a Pole, he should do well in Poland, heres been doing incredible in the EL.

 

Poland 7.43

UK 8.43!!!

Sweden 5.93!!!

 

 

In Poland hes third heat leader/second string status, comes here hes second heat leader status and in Sweden he's a lower second string.

 

Just so its not a rider from either of the three countries, Niels Kristian-Iversen

 

Poland 6.79

UK 7.96

Sweden 7.05

 

Another rider who finds a lot more easier to score points in the UK. Why is that, Drop A Cog?

[Subedei 0]

Gol one then, have it your own way, put Simon Stead in the GPs. At least it'll give me something to laugh at next season.

[arnieg 3,698]

As a matter of interest why is Lee Richardson's average higher in Sweden than UK?

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So Lee Richardson averages more in Sweden than GB therefore Sweden is easier

 

I THINK NOT

 

DaC conveniently forgets the 32 riders that average more in Sweden than they do in GB (including his beloved Stead - an excreable 5.53 in Sweden) as against only 15 (including Lee Richardson and the oft mentioned Jonas Davidsson) who have better averages in Sweden. (Assuming a binomial model, then this is statistically significant at the 2% level)

 

8 out of the twelve GP riders who compete in GB and Sweden have lower averages in Sweden implying they find those leagues tougher. And 7 of those 8 are at least half a point lower in Sweden. Lindback's league average is over 2 points lower in Sweden!

 

For any given rider there may be a number of reasons why they perform better in one country than another, but when the population as a whole is examined and produces such clear results there can be little argument.

 

Let’s face it you have failed miserably to disprove the fact that the best, most demanding and truly representative league in the speedway world is in UK.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Au contraire I think with each post DaC just digs a deeper hole for himself.

 

PS What does the fact that Bjorn Knutsson rode in the National League from 1959 to 1964 have to do with the relative strengths of the British and Swedish leagues in 2006?

Edited September 13, 2006 by arnieg

[Adder 94]

The only fair way to decide this is for the top 2 English riders in the Elite League averages at the end of the season get the places.

 

Everyone would know where they stand then and may encourage some English riders to try a bit harder for their Elite League clubs during the season.

Edited September 13, 2006 by Adder

[Hazzman 72]

The fact is we are talking about the British wildcard and the main contenders are all based and do the majority of their racing in the UK.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you are going to simplify it that much, you still lose in saying Stead is the stronger rider. I can take that in account your claim that British wildcard could be dictated on GB form but on the same token, here is only round in the UK and the GPs have two rounds each in Sweden and Poland. So its only significant that we look at Harris and Stead's international averages in Poland and Sweden. Harris wins.

 

Personally I feel the Polish and Swedish leagues have more weight and crediablity considering the quality of teams is much stronger.

[Pinstripe 0]

GB is by far the weakest of the leagues.

 

Look at the EL teams about 5 years ago and look through their lineups. Compare that with now!!

 

Most EL teams now consist of 1 or 2 stars and the rest are mostly PL standard. Somethings gone seriously wrong!!!

[arnieg 3,698]

have another go at this one because it just doesn't make sense

now if you were comparing like with like this might hold water...

 

your second paragraph sums it up nicely, there are any number of reasons, the 'stronger league' one it isn't.

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have wilfully misquoted me here

 

I said "for any given rider", not for an entire league of riders

 

PS In Elitiseren play-offs yesterday Neils Kristian Iversen rode at reserve for Vastervik

[salty 2,208]

Much like Jimmy Saville last season I think the answer to your question is Arena, I'll just check..........

 

Yes here it is

 

7.78 ~ Andreas Jonsson (Arena Essex…SWE…26) after 18 rides

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, drop a cog but your original question was in the present tense. I think you must be the only person who believes that AJ rides currently in the EL.

I think the scale of the response shows you are in a very small minority who thinks that the EL is superior to the other 2 major leagues.

Good argiung in favour of Steady, but I personally think that Bomber has outperformed him both in the individual qualifying and (marginally) the WTC. This combined with a disappointing display at Cardiff may well tip the balance in Bomber's favour.

If BSI insist on having to seed 2 Brits I think it would be unjust for Steady to get the nod in front of Bomber.

[Grachan 7,365]

GB is by far the weakest of the leagues.

 

Look at the EL teams about 5 years ago and look through their lineups. Compare that with now!!

 

Most EL teams now consist of 1 or 2 stars and the rest are mostly PL standard. Somethings gone seriously wrong!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'd say something was seriously wrong 5 years ago. There were not enough teams and sides were totally unbalanced with should-be heatleaders riding as second strings. I'd say it was a weaker league then, even if there were more top riders in individual teams.

 

Also, riders who would be heatleaders in the PL tend to be reserves in the EL - eg Mads Korneliussen, Richard Hall, Magnus Karlsson.

 

Either that or they have moved into the top 5 and are struggling - eg Ostergaard and also Christian Hefenbrock, who would be a top liner in the PL and is now struggling after moving into Wolves' top 5.

 

A lot of things effect average of riders - eg race format, variety of different shape tracks, number of teams in the league etc. I don't think you could say that any league is weaker or stronger than another.

Edited September 13, 2006 by Grachan