speedyguy 20 Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) Yes, I agree in general with what you say, although Southern Rovers were an official team who competed in the 1956 Southern Area League. I think you will find Southern Rovers were formed to fill a gap in the Southern Area League following the closure of Brafield. Edited March 21, 2008 by speedyguy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norbold 7,110 Posted March 21, 2008 I think you will find Southern Rovers were formed to fill a gap in the Southern Area League following the closure of Brafield. I think you are right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chunky 6,093 Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) We have another mover; Geoff Penniket moves up to 12 teams with the addition of Newpool in 1964. We also have some new entries, in Derek Timms (10), Danny Dunton and Eric Eadon (both 9), and Charlie Monk (8). Steve Edited March 21, 2008 by chunky Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted March 22, 2008 We also have some new entries, in Derek Timms (10), Danny Dunton and Eric Eadon (both 9), and Charlie Monk (8). Steve 10 - DEREK TIMMS (Aldershot, Cradley, Crayford, Doncaster, Middlesbrough, New Cross, Plymouth, St. Austell, Wimbledon Res, Wolves) Much as I'm delighted to see Crayford get another mention on the list via Derek Timms, am puzzled by the reference to "Wimbledon Reserves". To my knowledge a Wimbledon reserve or 'second' team has never ridden in an accepted, competitive league (ie NOT including your 'Southern Junior' type league) so though Timms, I assume, did turn out for such a side, surely this can't 'count'..??!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chunky 6,093 Posted March 22, 2008 To my knowledge a Wimbledon reserve or 'second' team has never ridden in an accepted, competitive league (ie NOT including your 'Southern Junior' type league) so though Timms, I assume, did turn out for such a side, surely this can't 'count'..??!! It may surprise you, but Wimbledon entered a team in the National Reserve League in 1959. Even though not all fixtures were completed (of course, that has happened at senior level anyway!), it was structured as a league. As far as I'm concerned, official fixtures should include any recognised "league", particularly when it is under the banner of a NATIONAL League. Competitions such as the Southern Area League, Scottish Junior League, National Reserve League, British Conference etc are all - and certainly should be considered - legitimate and OFFICIAL leagues. They are/were either open to teams not competing in other leagues, and/or included certain restrictions and limitations on the eligibility of individuals. Steve Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted March 22, 2008 It may surprise you, but Wimbledon entered a team in the National Reserve League in 1959. Even though not all fixtures were completed (of course, that has happened at senior level anyway!), it was structured as a league. As far as I'm concerned, official fixtures should include any recognised "league", particularly when it is under the banner of a NATIONAL League. Competitions such as the Southern Area League, Scottish Junior League, National Reserve League, British Conference etc are all - and certainly should be considered - legitimate and OFFICIAL leagues. They are/were either open to teams not competing in other leagues, and/or included certain restrictions and limitations on the eligibility of individuals. Steve Okay, I stand corrected!!!! And Derek Timms rode in that league for Wimbledon then..?? That's nine years before becoming a Crayford Highwayman..??? I take your point also about the 'junior' leagues (after all,it is your thread.. ) but don't brand the Conference in that same bracket..: the Conference is a pukka 'third division'... I think things will get 'messy', though, with respect to the current 'Academy' league as all sorts of weird things have happened there with rider appearances... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chunky 6,093 Posted March 22, 2008 (edited) Okay, I stand corrected!!!! And Derek Timms rode in that league for Wimbledon then..?? That's nine years before becoming a Crayford Highwayman..??? He was a lot of things before he was a Highwayman! He actually started in 1952, appearing for St. Austell and Wolves. He was out of the sport from 1953 until 1959, before retiring again in 1964! Then, he came out of retirement to ride for Crayford. I was actually surprised how many teams he'd ridden for, and that doesn't include Birmingham in 1960. Not involved in any official fixtures, the Brummies teame comprised an an impressive line-up of "loaned" riders, such as Ron Johnston, Peter Kelly, Eric Eadon, Arne Pander, Graham Warren, Peter Craven and Nigel Boocock! As far as the 1959 National Reserve League, the other riders to appear for Wimbledon were Jim Tebby, Cyril Brine, Ronnie Rolfe, Ernie Baker, Bob Andrews, Gerry King, Bobby Croombs, Gil Goldfinch, and - somewhat surprisingly - Johnny Fitzpatrick, Dave Hankins, and Ivor Brown! Some other interesting names in the Reserves League included Tony Robinson (Belle Vue), Graham Warren and Nigel Boocock (Coventry), Alf Hagon (Leicester), John Chamberlain (Norwich), Ken Adams and Howdy Byford (Oxford), Reg Duval (Poole), Brian Brett (Soton), and Leo McAuliffe (Swindon). Steve Edited March 22, 2008 by chunky Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted March 22, 2008 As far as the 1959 National Reserve League, the other riders to appear for Wimbledon were Jim Tebby, Cyril Brine, Ronnie Rolfe, Ernie Baker, Bob Andrews, Gerry King, Bobby Croombs, Gil Goldfinch, and - somewhat surprisingly - Johnny Fitzpatrick, Dave Hankins, and Ivor Brown! Steve "Ivor Brown"..?? No relation to that guy from the Pit Bend Loonies who throws darts for a living, was he..??!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chunky 6,093 Posted March 22, 2008 (edited) "Ivor Brown"..?? No relation to that guy from the Pit Bend Loonies who throws darts for a living, was he..??!! Okay, two things... Firstly, you're up late! Secondly, who are you??? Drop me a PM, 'cos I've been wondering who you are... Anyway, I've moved the previous list to follow this post, as Des Lukehurst, Tommy Sweetman, John Fitzpatrick, and David Crane have entered the charts... Steve Edited March 22, 2008 by chunky Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chunky 6,093 Posted March 22, 2008 (edited) So, here is the latest chart. I'm still including those riders with eight or more teams, knowing that there may well be one or two missing. Steve 18 - ALAN MOGRIDGE (Arena Essex, Berwick, Bradford, Canterbury, Crayford, Eastbourne, Hackney, Ipswich, London, Middlesbrough, Peterborough, Rye House, Sheffield, Stoke, Swindon, Wimbledon, Wolves, Workington) 16 - JUSTIN ELKINS (Arena Essex, Eastbourne, Eastbourne Starlets, Edinburgh, Exeter, Hull, Isle of Wight, Long Eaton, Poole, Reading, Rye House, Stoke, Stoke Spitfires, Weymouth, Wimbledon, Workington) 16 - WAL MORTON (Bradford (Greenfield), Bradford (Odsal), Bristol, Coventry, Glasgow WC, Hackney, Harringay, Ipswich, Liverpool, Middlesbrough, Newcastle, Norwich, West Ham, West Ham Res, Weymouth, Wimbledon) 16 - TONY FEATHERSTONE (Boston, Bradford, Crayford, Exeter, Hackney, King's Lynn, King's Lynn II, Leicester, Long Eaton, Milton Keynes, Newport, Peterborough, Poole, Scunthorpe, Sheffield, Wolves) 15 - JAMES BIRKINSHAW (Belle Vue Colts, Berwick, Birmingham, Boston, Buxton, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Linlithgow, Newcastle, Sheffield, Sheffield Prowlers, St. Austell, Stoke, Wolves 2nd, Workington) 15 - MARK BURROWS (Belle Vue, Buxton, Cleveland (Boro II), Cleveland (Redcar II), Coventry, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Hull, Long Eaton, Middlesbrough, Scunthorpe, Sheffield, Stoke, Stoke Spitfires, Wimbledon) 15 - GEORGE MAJOR(Aldershot, Belle Vue, Birmingham, Cradley, Doncaster, Glasgow, Leicester, Neath, Newcastle, Norwich, Oxford, Sheffield, St. Austell, Wolves, Yarmouth) 14 - STAN STEVENS (Barrow, Chesterton, Cradley, Exeter, King's Lynn, Mildenhall, New Cross, Oxford, Rayleigh, Romford, Rye House, Southampton, Rayleigh, West Ham) 13 - NEIL COLLINS (Belle Vue, Ellesmere Port, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Hull, Leicester, Newport, Sheffield, Somerset, Stoke, Swindon, Wolves, Workington) 12 - DAVID BLACKBURN (Belle Vue, Berwick, Boston, Glasgow, Leicester, Long Eaton, Middlesbrough, Milton Keynes, Newcastle, Reading, Sheffield, Workington) 12 - ERIC HOCKADAY (Aldershot, California, Coventry, Cradley, Exeter, Leicester, Oxford, Rayleigh, Rye House, Sheffield, Southern Rovers, Stoke) 12 - CHRIS JULIAN (Bristol, Cradley, Exeter, Glasgow, Glasgow WC, Mildenhall, Neath, Newport, Plymouth, Southampton, St. Austell, Weymouth) 12 - DES LUKEHURST (Eastbourne, Exeter, Exeter 'B', Hackney, Long Eaton, Newport, Oxford, Romford, Swindon, Wembley, West Ham, Wolves) 12 - GEOFF PENNIKET (Cradley, Eastbourne, King's Lynn, Long Eaton, New Cross, Newpool, Newport, Plymouth, Poole, Rayleigh, Romford, Workington) 12 - NIGEL SPARSHOTT (Birmingham, Crayford, Exeter, King's Lynn, Long Eaton, Middlesbrough, Milton Keynes, Oxford, Poole, Rye House, Swindon, Wimbledon) 12 - KEN VALE (Aldershot, Canterbury, Cradley, Eastbourne, Exeter, King's Lynn II, Long Eaton, Neath, Newport, Oxford, Weymouth, Workington) 11 - DANNY DUNTON (Birmingham, Belle Vue, Belle Vue Res, Harringay, Ipswich, Long Eaton, Norwich, Oxford, Swindon, Weymouth, Yarmouth) 11 - REIDAR EIDE (Coatbridge, Edinburgh, Exeter, Leicester, Newport, Poole, Reading, Sheffield, Swindon, Wembley, Wolves) 11 - TOMMY SWEETMAN (Aldershot, California, Exeter, Hackney, New Cross, Norwich II, Rayleigh Rovers, Rye House, Southern Rovers, Swindon Res, Wolves) 11 - ROB WOFFINDEN (Berwick, Birmingham, Boston, Edinburgh, Halifax, Milton Keynes, Middlesbrough, Rye House, Scunthorpe, Sheffield, Stoke) 10 - JIMMY SQUIBB (Canterbury, Cradley, Eastbourne, Exeter, Harringay, Ipswich, New Cross, Plymouth, Poole, Southampton) 10 - DEREK TIMMS (Aldershot, Cradley, Crayford, Doncaster, Middlesbrough, New Cross, Plymouth, St. Austell, Wimbledon Res, Wolves) 9 - MAL CORRADINE (Birmingham, Cradley, Doncaster, Long Eaton, Middlesbrough, Oxford, Stoke, Weymouth, Wolves) 9 - ALAN COWLAND (Exeter, Hull, Leicester, Mildenhall, Newport, Peterborough, Wimbledon, Wolves, Workington) 9 - DAVID CRANE (Coventry, Exeter, Hackney, Ipswich, King's Lynn, King's Lynn II, Norwich, Oxford, Sheffield) 9 - ERIC EADON (Aldershot, Brafield, Coventry Res, Cradley, Edinburgh, Rayleigh Rovers, Southern Rovers, Stoke, Wolves) 9 - JOHN FITZPATRICK (Ipswich, Middlesbrough, Oxford Res, Rayleigh, Southampton, Stoke, West Ham, Wimbledon Res, Yarmouth) 9 - KEITH HARVEY (Birmingham, C. Palace, High Beech, Luton, New Cross, Norwich, Stamford Bridge, West Ham, Wimbledon) 9 - BRIAN LEONARD (Hackney, Leicester, Newpool, Newport, Oxford, Poole, Swindon, Wembley, West Ham) 9 - STEVE JOHNSTON (Arena, Belle Vue, Coventry, Ipswich, Long Eaton, Oxford, Sheffield, Swindon, Wolves) 8 - TONY EADON, CLIVE HITCH, DAVE JESSUP, GORDON KENNETT, MARK LORAM, GARRY MIDDLETON, CHARLIE MONK, JOHN POYSER, GLYN TAYLOR Edited March 24, 2008 by chunky Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norbold 7,110 Posted March 22, 2008 Okay, two things... Firstly, you're up late! Secondly, who are you??? Drop me a PM, 'cos I've been wondering who you are... I know who he is. The usual packet full of fivers stuffed behind the hot water pipes in Victoria Station will ensure my continued silence, Parsloes... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
star ghost 7 Posted March 22, 2008 (edited) Danny Dunton rode as "loan spell" with Norwich Stars in May 1953. These matches were in the Coronation Cup Competition. I think D D had a number of "loans" in that season. The 1959 "Reserve League" started after the Britannia Cup matches where the No. 7 did not get programmed rides in the 15 heat match. He then rode in a 4 man team over 5 heats in a Junior League. When the National League started over 18 heats that season the Junior section was dropped. After some matches this reverted to the 15 heat + Junior League system but a number of matches were never raced. Any Contract rider not in the top 6 was allowed in so even Phil Clarke and Johnny Chamberlain rode for Norwich in the competition. Tommy Sweetman rode for Norwich in the National Trophy when teams were 10=a-side for the one season it was so. Edited March 22, 2008 by star ghost Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BOBBATH 467 Posted March 22, 2008 Yes but who is the tallest guy on the list.Seriously was glad to see Derek Timms name-I recall him for CH -anyone know where Derek is these days?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chunky 6,093 Posted March 22, 2008 Danny Dunton rode as "loan spell" with Norwich Stars in May 1953. These matches were in the Coronation Cup Competition. I think D D had a number of "loans" in that season. The 1959 "Reserve League" started after the Britannia Cup matches where the No. 7 did not get programmed rides in the 15 heat match. He then rode in a 4 man team over 5 heats in a Junior League. When the National League started over 18 heats that season the Junior section was dropped. After some matches this reverted to the 15 heat + Junior League system but a number of matches were never raced. Any Contract rider not in the top 6 was allowed in so even Phil Clarke and Johnny Chamberlain rode for Norwich in the competition. Thanks for the info. I was surprised at some of the names involved! Steve Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shippy22 60 Posted March 22, 2008 Justin Elkins should be high up the list. I make it that he has ridden for at least 16 teams Arena Essex, Eastbourne, Eastbourne Starlets (CL), Edinburgh, Exeter, Hull, Isle of Wight, Long Eaton, Poole, Reading, Rye House, Stoke, Stoke Spitfires (CL ), Weymouth, Wimbledon & Workington Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
