Grachan 7,364 Posted July 1, 2008 The 30 yard marker was always for outside assistance to riders rather than when riders can go off from their line. It was just one of those myths that caught on. I've read that to be the case several times over the years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shazzybird 10 Posted July 1, 2008 Grachan is that in a rule book somewhere only reason I ask I just spoke to an ex-rider and an ex-starting marshall and they both said the same thing. (Please note use of smilies here both are un-sure smilies as I really don't have a clue and am just asking a question ..... amazing that you have to give a full explanation on here nowadays to eliminate a backlash of abuse from certain ones, when the smilies are there to help get the posting across ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dietbowers 522 Posted July 1, 2008 The 30 yard marker was always for outside assistance to riders rather than when riders can go off from their line. It was just one of those myths that caught on. I've read that to be the case several times over the years. Somewhere in the back of my mind I seem to remember Phil Crump being excluded for going off line inside the 30 yard mark,maybe at Reading or Poole. I think it was when he was riding for Newport,so my memory is a bit vague as to what match it was. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grachan 7,364 Posted July 1, 2008 Grachan is that in a rule book somewhere only reason I ask I just spoke to an ex-rider and an ex-starting marshall and they both said the same thing. I guess you'd have to check an old rule book as I don't think they use the 30 yard marker any more. So I don't know. I've certainly seen it written on many occasions that the 30 yard marker was for outside assistance though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedwayondisc 0 Posted July 1, 2008 Grachan is 100% correct. The 30 yard marker has ONLY ever marked the limit for which assistance could be given after the start of a race. It has NEVER had any other significance or role within the rulebook. The fact that many people within the sport, some of them in positions of responsibility, have mistakenly believed the myth that it ever meant anything else is a sad reflection on their knowledge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shazzybird 10 Posted July 1, 2008 Where did you see this written? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedwayondisc 0 Posted July 1, 2008 (edited) In response to where I have seen this written I could quote from almost any rulebook going back years and years but taking one at random, the SCB rules for 1988 states Rule 202 b " After the green light has been displayed no time allowance will be granted and no out side assistance shall be given to any rider except that a rider who falls or whose machine stops thereafter shall, after the gate is up, receive assistance from two pushers for a distance of 30m .... ... The 30 m marker indicates only the limit to which a rider may be pushed at the start, and has no other significance ... " The use of bold is mine to emphasise how the rule makers had, at some point, recognised the need to explain to everyone just exactly what they meant as people have consistently misunderstood this for my entire life watching speedway. Edited because an inappropriate smily appeared! Edited July 1, 2008 by speedwayondisc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grachan 7,364 Posted July 1, 2008 So there it is. Phil Crump should NOT have been excluded. Ref wasn't Polish was he? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dietbowers 522 Posted July 1, 2008 So there it is. Phil Crump should NOT have been excluded. Ref wasn't Polish was he? Indeed,but Crumpie rode for Newport in the 70`s,and the quote was from a rulebook published in 1988. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grachan 7,364 Posted July 1, 2008 Indeed,but Crumpie rode for Newport in the 70`s,and the quote was from a rulebook published in 1988. You're not suggesting they change the rule book every year are you? Why on Earth would they want to do that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dietbowers 522 Posted July 1, 2008 You're not suggesting they change the rule book every year are you? Why on Earth would they want to do that? Probably to keep us fans guessing as to what they can screw up next time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobC 664 Posted July 1, 2008 Grachan is that in a rule book somewhere only reason I ask I just spoke to an ex-rider and an ex-starting marshall and they both said the same thing. (Please note use of smilies here both are un-sure smilies as I really don't have a clue and am just asking a question ..... amazing that you have to give a full explanation on here nowadays to eliminate a backlash of abuse from certain ones, when the smilies are there to help get the posting across ) I agree with you Shazz. In the last 10 years or so,there WAS a rule about staying in your lane for a certain distance from the start. Im pretty sure it was used in all Leagues here.It was defintiely used in the Elite/Top League. I cant remember the dates,however,I do know it existed,but was withdrawn after a couple of seasons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John Leslie 3,213 Posted July 1, 2008 Rule 202 b " After the green light has been displayed no time allowance will be granted and no out side assistance shall be given to any rider except that a rider who falls or whose machine stops thereafter shall, after the gate is up, receive assistance from two pushers for a distance of 30m .... ... The 30 m marker indicates only the limit to which a rider may be pushed at the start, and has no other significance ... " The use of bold is mine to emphasise how the rule makers had, at some point, recognised the need to explain to everyone just exactly what they meant as people have consistently misunderstood this for my entire life watching speedway. That is absolutely correct. And the rule remained in that wording for many years without change. (The only time I remember the wording changing at all was when we went from 30 yards to 30 Metres, but nothing else changed). There was never any rule about riding in a straight line for 30 yards. Can't remember when the bold bit was added, but I remember the full rule complete with that extra confirmation way back into the 70s. It may have been there much longer than that. The rule stayed in that form until the rule and the marker were removed when Health & Safety started getting more involved. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedwayondisc 0 Posted July 1, 2008 (edited) Please can we nail this matter once and for all. It has been the bane of my speedway watching life that people have always trotted out the total misconception surrounding the 30m or in the past 30 yard marker. We can go back to the SCB regulations of 1948 Reg 123 b " A rider whose engine stops shall, after the gate is up, receive assistance from two pushers as far as the forward foul line. If at that point , the rider's engine is not running he shall be excluded from the race." The Forward Foul Line is previously defined as being 90 feet beyond the start line (the 30 yard marker, effectively). No where else in the regulations is this line mentioned as having any other significance whatsoever. This rule remains in similar guise throughout the fifties. All regulations from the 1960s and 1970s that I have available show Regulation 202 as stating Rule 202 b " After the green light has been displayed no time allowance will be granted and no out side assistance shall be given to any rider except that a rider who falls or whose machine stops thereafter shall, after the gate is up, receive assistance from two pushers for a distance of 30 yards ...." It is in 1980 that, specifically to avoid the confusion that is still being debated here 28 years later, an extra line is added " The 30 yard marker indicates only the limit to which a rider may be pushed at the start, and has no other significance" In 1985 the yards were changed to metres but the rest of the regulations were untouched and remained exactly as I previously quoted from 1985 until 1996 when, I think it was Graham Reeve, gave the rulebook a comprehensive new look. From 1996 onwards you will not be able to find ANY reference to any 30m marker AT ALL or for provision of pushers at the start, and there is certainly no mention in any regulations of any 'stay straight for 30m' rule that so many people think. The truth is, and please can this be the end of it, it NEVER existed at any stage in the whole history of (post-war) Speedway PS (Don't get me looking into the thirties!!) Edited for spelling Edited July 1, 2008 by speedwayondisc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grachan 7,364 Posted July 1, 2008 Please can we nail this matter once and for all. It has been the bane of my speedway watching life that people have always trotted out the total misconception surrounding the 30m or in the past 30 yard marker. We can go back to the SCB regulations of 1948 Reg 123 b " A rider whose engine stops shall, after the gate is up, receive assistance from two pushers as far as the forward foul line. If at that point , the rider's engine is not running he shall be excluded from the race." The Forward Foul Line is previously defined as being 90 feet beyond the start line (the 30 yard marker, effectively). No where else in the regulations is this line mentioned as having any other significance whatsoever. This rule remains in similar guise throughout the fifties. All regulations from the 1960s and 1970s that I have available show Regulation 202 as stating Rule 202 b " After the green light has been displayed no time allowance will be granted and no out side assistance shall be given to any rider except that a rider who falls or whose machine stops thereafter shall, after the gate is up, receive assistance from two pushers for a distance of 30 yards ...." It is in 1980 that, specifically to avoid the confusion that is still being debated here 28 years later, an extra line is added " The 30 yard marker indicates only the limit to which a rider may be pushed at the start, and has no other significance" In 1985 the yards were changed to metres but the rest of the regulations were untouched and remained exactly as I previously quoted from 1985 until 1996 when, I think it was Graham Reeve, gave the rulebook a comprehensive new look. From 1996 onwards you will not be able to find ANY reference to any 30m marker AT ALL or for provision of pushers at the start, and there is certainly no mention in any regulations of any 'stay straight for 30m' rule that so many people think. The truth is, and please can this be the end of it, it NEVER existed at any stage in the whole history of (post-war) Speedway PS (Don't get me looking into the thirties!!) Edited for spelling And I bet there's still someone out there who just won't believe it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
