Grand Prix

[salty 2,202]

It seems a "revolution" is being planned.Only the World Champ will qualify for the next year(2010) if all comes to fruition.

According to Mr Grodzki there are too many old heads in the GP's and the youngsters are finding it hard to break through.

What a load of garbage! The youngsters aren't breaking through because they are not good enough!

Everyone has the chance to qualify, yet the GP Final again consists of many of the old names. Riders like Pavlic, Holder and Safutdinov all had their chance but didn't make it.

[Dietbowers 522]

What a load of garbage! The youngsters aren't breaking through because they are not good enough!

Everyone has the chance to qualify, yet the GP Final again consists of many of the old names. Riders like Pavlic, Holder and Safutdinov all had their chance but didn't make it.

Nail Head Hammer.

 

[ballinger 32]

The German site basically states that 22 riders from a starting pool of 64 would qualify (from 4 Quarters I guess) to the Semi Finals. There they would be joined by riders placed 2-11 in the 2009 SGP (10 riders). The 2 semi finals would then perm 16 for the GP Challenge, the top 10 qualifying for SGP 2010 to join the 2009 World Champ, plus I guess 4 nominations

[From PC to KC. 25]

The German site basically states that 22 riders from a starting pool of 64 would qualify (from 4 Quarters I guess) to the Semi Finals. There they would be joined by riders placed 2-11 in the 2009 SGP (10 riders). The 2 semi finals would then perm 16 for the GP Challenge, the top 10 qualifying for SGP 2010 to join the 2009 World Champ, plus I guess 4 nominations

+ the wild card or you only have 15?

[From PC to KC. 25]

The German site basically states that 22 riders from a starting pool of 64 would qualify (from 4 Quarters I guess) to the Semi Finals. There they would be joined by riders placed 2-11 in the 2009 SGP (10 riders). The 2 semi finals would then perm 16 for the GP Challenge, the top 10 qualifying for SGP 2010 to join the 2009 World Champ, plus I guess 4 nominations

How do you get 22 thru from 4 meetings, top 5 from each round

 

+ 2 from a runoff of 4 res from the 4 qualifiers?

Edited August 16, 2008 by From PC to KC.

[docmccoy 0]

Personally speaking I'd welcome a shake up of the qualifying system and a return to the old Grand Prix Challenge would be a good idea. I dont see any reason why, in the current situation, the bottom seven riders can't ride for their GP futures against the top nine from the qualifiers. However, the bottom line is, if they're not good enough, young or not, then they're not good enough.

 

Speedway's problem is that it's split between being an individual sport and a team sport. Therefore, whereas MotoGP, Formula One, World Superbikes etc, etc, do 'hand pick' their drivers/riders, there is an accepted route of progression if you're good enough. Casey Stoner and Dani Pedrosa both raced in the 250cc World Championships before riding in MotoGP, as did Toni Elias. The WSB series tends to pick their riders from their national championships, and Lewis Hamilton, although to a certain extent was nurtured by Ron Dennis, won the GP1 series before sitting in a McLaren. Also manufacturers, such as Honda keep tabs on their young riders/drivers in other formulae and nurture them to ride at the top level. This was the case with Kiyonari who won the British Superbike Championship on a factory-supported Honda and he is now racing at world level for the Ten Kate Honda team - that used to be James Toseland's team who is now riding in MotoGP for Yamaha.

 

In comparison, speedway doesn't have the same route of progression as other GP series' do, so we have the qualifying systems instead. Nothing wrong with that, but as the Grand Prix wants to be like other GPs, its lack of stability means that they can't market it along the same lines - not that they do much of that anyway. For example, Scott Nicholls cannot budget or get sponsors for next year on the basis of being in the Grand Prix because he doesn't know for sure if he will or not. The organisers need a certain number of Poles, Swedes, Danes, etc to help sell the TV rights. And with no 'teams' in the GP like there are in MotoGP or F1, there is no certainty for sponsors either.

 

Speedway's day-to-day existence is league racing and that's not likely to change for many years to come. And until the GPs can run on its own basis - which isn't going to be any time soon - this is always going to be a difficult situation for all concerned.

[T.N.T. 355]

The top 8 qualify direct.

 

I then think that the Qualifiers should find 8 riders to ride in the GP Challenge Final against the next 4 in the standings and 4 selected riders who may have missed out due to injury, riders in form and also the World U-21 Champion.

 

These 16 would then find the other 7 qualifiers for the next years series.

[12bore 0]

Personally speaking I'd welcome a shake up of the qualifying system and a return to the old Grand Prix Challenge would be a good idea. I dont see any reason why, in the current situation, the bottom seven riders can't ride for their GP futures against the top nine from the qualifiers. However, the bottom line is, if they're not good enough, young or not, then they're not good enough.

 

Speedway's problem is that it's split between being an individual sport and a team sport. Therefore, whereas MotoGP, Formula One, World Superbikes etc, etc, do 'hand pick' their drivers/riders, there is an accepted route of progression if you're good enough. Casey Stoner and Dani Pedrosa both raced in the 250cc World Championships before riding in MotoGP, as did Toni Elias. The WSB series tends to pick their riders from their national championships, and Lewis Hamilton, although to a certain extent was nurtured by Ron Dennis, won the GP1 series before sitting in a McLaren. Also manufacturers, such as Honda keep tabs on their young riders/drivers in other formulae and nurture them to ride at the top level. This was the case with Kiyonari who won the British Superbike Championship on a factory-supported Honda and he is now racing at world level for the Ten Kate Honda team - that used to be James Toseland's team who is now riding in MotoGP for Yamaha.

 

In comparison, speedway doesn't have the same route of progression as other GP series' do, so we have the qualifying systems instead. Nothing wrong with that, but as the Grand Prix wants to be like other GPs, its lack of stability means that they can't market it along the same lines - not that they do much of that anyway. For example, Scott Nicholls cannot budget or get sponsors for next year on the basis of being in the Grand Prix because he doesn't know for sure if he will or not. The organisers need a certain number of Poles, Swedes, Danes, etc to help sell the TV rights. And with no 'teams' in the GP like there are in MotoGP or F1, there is no certainty for sponsors either.

 

Speedway's day-to-day existence is league racing and that's not likely to change for many years to come. And until the GPs can run on its own basis - which isn't going to be any time soon - this is always going to be a difficult situation for all concerned.

 

Moto GP and superbikes are manufacturer controlled, riders are put into championships to stimulate markets to sell bikes hence the glut of spanish riders ... they are no better than anyone else there are just a hell of a lot more bikes sold in spain than anywhere else. Kiyonari was "seeded" into BSB by the factory in return for giving his team mate a factory bike the same way that the waste of space Watanabe (an alleged all japanese superbike champion) is waddling around with the privateers, the factory obviously got that one wrong! A GP without a british rider would be a disaster in terms of viewing figures as said above the same way as interest has fallen away from world superbikes this season without a recognised british rider, it appears drastic steps are being taken to get british riders into the series for next season.

 

[iris123 20,997]

It's not that Sajfutdinov or Holder are not good enough.It's just the way speedway works.In one meeting on one track they didn't get through.If the meeting had have been held at another track there would probably be a number of changes to who qualified.That is speedway.But the problem with any qualifying system is there will always be 1 or 2 unfancied riders who make it through.Lubos Tomicek almost made it last year.Andy Smith made it through a few times.It isn't so bad if an unfancied rider makes it through to a one-off World Final,but when 1 or 2 make it through to a GP series then it is bad news.Protasiewiscz is a good example

[Squire 0]

What are the implications if Scott or Chris do not qualify for next years GP's, and they are not invited as wild cards etc what effect will that have on the crowd turnout at Cardiff. Will it make a difference or if so will that not only affect IMG but the general atmosphere as an event in GB?

[spin king 1,923]

What are the implications if Scott or Chris do not qualify for next years GP's, and they are not invited as wild cards etc what effect will that have on the crowd turnout at Cardiff. Will it make a difference or if so will that not only affect IMG but the general atmosphere as an event in GB?

 

I think that you will find that they will go with at least one GB rider, because Cardiff is one of the main GP's, what I would like to see is a a Grand Prix A and a Grand Prix B, both Grand Prix to run on the same day at different venues, after each Grand Prix the bottom 4 from the Grand Prix A would be replaced by the top four from Grand Prix B.

Do away with the semi final's and the finals, and replace them with run off's between riders who have tied on points, the winner of the World title would be the rider who accumelates the most points in the A grand Prix.

[Squire 0]

I think that you will find that they will go with at least one GB rider, because Cardiff is one of the main GP's, what I would like to see is a a Grand Prix A and a Grand Prix B, both Grand Prix to run on the same day at different venues, after each Grand Prix the bottom 4 from the Grand Prix A would be replaced by the top four from Grand Prix B.

Do away with the semi final's and the finals, and replace them with run off's between riders who have tied on points, the winner of the World title would be the rider who accumelates the most points in the A grand Prix.

 

That will not auger well with several posters on this forum. (Well one in particular.. ) Also, with respect I feel that your solution to the problem that I outlined though is well thought out , is just not feasible or commercially viable.

[Subedei 0]

The call, so it seems, is for "new blood" to inject life into the Grands Prix circus.

In his blog on the Sky Sports website, Sky's top pundit and new official crash helmet carrier for the global superstar writes: "The pressure is certainly on both Nicholls and Chris Harris to try and force their way in [to the top eight], particularly as there is a lot of talk about the new teenage sensation Tai Woffinden...Without question the powers that be are beginning to take a lot of interest in him. I think they would like some fresh faces and I think some of the riders who have been kicking around who are not in the top eight will be in a vulnerable position. There are some youngsters who are making names for themselves like Tai Woffinden and the Australian rider Chris Holder who is getting a terrific reputation."

Well, lets have a look at the final standings in the Grands Prix this century (I have only produced the riders qualifying automatically for the next season's circus):

 

2007

 

1..N Pedersen

2..L Adams

3..J Crump

4..T Gollob

5..H Andersen

6..G Hancock

7..R Holta

8..S Nicholls

 

2006

 

1..J Crump

2..G Hancock

3..N Pedersen

4..A Jonsson

5..L Adams

6..H Andersen

7..M Zagar

8..T Gollob

 

2005

 

1..T Rickardsson

2..J Crump

3..L Adams

4..N Pedersen

5..G Hancock

6..B Pedersen

7..T Gollob

8..A Jonsson

 

2004

 

1..J Crump

2..T Rickardsson

3..G Hancock

4..L Adams

5..N Pedersen

6..T Gollob

7..A Jonsson

8..J Hampel

 

2003

 

1..N Pedersen

2..J Crump

3..T Rickardsson

4..L Adams

5..G Hancock

6..T Gollob

7..S Nicholls

8..R Holta

9..R Sullivan

10..P Protasiewicz

 

2002

 

1..T Rickardsson

2..J Crump

3..R Sullivan

4..L Adams

5..M Karlsson (now known as M Max)

6..G Hancock

7..T Gollob

8..M Loram

9..B Hamill

10..L Dryml

 

2001

 

1..T Rickardsson

2..J Crump

3..T Gollob

4..R Sullivan

5..L Adams

6..B Hamill

7..M Karlsson (now known as M Max)

8..T Wiltshire

9..M Loram

10..N Klingberg

 

2000

 

1..M Loram

2..B Hamill

3..T Rickardsson

4..J Crump

5..G Hancock

6..L Adams

7..T Gollob

8..T Wiltshire

9..R Sullivan

10..C Louis

 

As you will note, I've highlighted three riders in bold. Messrs Crump, Adams and Gollob have managed to qualify via their placing in the Grands Prix on each and every single occasion. Another rider, "The Grin", has just missed out on a single occasion, while two riders - Billy Hamill and Tony Rickardsson - bowed out of their own accord; Rickardsson as world champion mid-way through the 2006 season. And you have to think that Rickardsson, if he'd carried on, would still have been a force to this day and a sure-fire qualifier.

Old father time, one knock too many and satiated ambition did for Tony Rickardsson. He was knocking on in years, the on-track knocks were taking their toll and he had six world championships to his name. Enough was surely enough. And it looks like we're going to have to wait for Messrs Adams, Crump and Gollob (and, to be fair to him, Hancock) to finally decide that they also have had their fill.

Which is surely as it should be?

So, what chance does that give the likes of Tai Woffinden, Chris Holder, Jurica Pavlic and Emil Sajfutdinov, to name the outstanding prospects of speedway? Well, every chance, if they're prepared to do the hard work and have the skill, determination and balls, if you ask me.

But it seems to me that the creation of the Grands Prix circus has enabled a cabal of riders to form an elite corps whose talent and resources makes them virtually invulnerable. To be sure, it looks as if Hans Andersen is set to join that cabal, while world championship favourite Nicki Pedersen most certainly has, but even a rider as gifted and as well backed as Andreas Jonsson has so far been merely a "fringe player".

But isn't that how it should be? Only the best, the driven, the determined and the gifted should find themselves regularly at the top table, gorging themselves on the fruits of the Grands Prix circus.

Edited August 17, 2008 by Subedei

[BelteshazzarBee 0]

What would have happened a few years back if Tomas Suchanek had of won the toss?

 

Just because Sajfutdinov is good enough i'm not convinced all World U-21 Champions should be in.

 

I dont think we are talking every World u-21 champ just the 2008 one

 

I thought that the U21 champ qualified or has that stopped. I am sure Jason Crump, Lee Richardsson, Jarek Hampel and Krystof Kasprazak all got in origianally this way. Who was the las trider to get in this way?

 

This is how i think they should do it:

 

Top 8 from the previous year (how they do it anyway)

Instead of racing the qualifiers before the GPcampaign has finished run it afterwards so if riders such as Chris harris or Scott nicholls dont get in the top 8 they could qualify through to next year. Maybe have a series of 3 events (with eaqual fields) with the top two from each qualifying to next years GP campaign. Maybe thats too compicated but my idea of racing the qualifiers after the full campaign still stands as a genuinely sensible idea.

Then the World U-21 champ.

and if i am right that leaves the wild card for each round and hey presto.

[JSR 0]

I know its more costly for the riders but I would go back to the 24 rider format. In the current format several riders can have an off night and some heats are therefore far from competetive. The old format to a degree ensured that most of the best riders on the night go through and always ensured hard competetive racing in the knockout stage.

The current format is becoming a little predictable and can be boring at times,