deanr1 203 Posted August 31, 2009 Nielsen for me would have won the title virtually ever year from the early 80's to the mid 90's had the GP's been in place which casts more shadows over the fact that maybe Havelock, Jonsson, O'Pedersen and even Gundersen may not have won the title had it been over a season. I totally agree about Nielsen, he was like a machine in his prime and you can bet that even if he didnt win every round he would have made every final and scored 12 or 13 in the heats. I think Gundersen would not have been able to match that sort of consistency and as good as Knudsen was i think he too would have come up short against Nielsen in a GP series. Ermolenko was absolutely flying during his title winning year though, i think he might still have done it over a GP series. Parsloes comments about Havelock are interesting, i often think of him as a freak winner and not a "real" world champion but as you correctly point out he won everything that year and he also rode very well in the league so that seems unfair. Another interesting thing about Havvy is that he was only 23 when he became world champ, it's amazing that he never won anything of note after that, he seemed to be past his best by the time he was 25 despite all his talent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norbold 7,110 Posted September 1, 2009 He wouldn't have won it in 1967 though. I agree with you, Grachan, but who do you think would have won in 1967? In a way it was the year in between the Barry Briggs and Ivan Mauger eras. One of them? Banger? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grachan 7,362 Posted September 1, 2009 I agree with you, Grachan, but who do you think would have won in 1967? In a way it was the year in between the Barry Briggs and Ivan Mauger eras. One of them? Banger? Briggs, without a doubt. He was far and away the best rider in the World that year, and pre-final it was pretty much a question of who would come second to Briggs on World Final night. Admittedly he fluffed it a bit on the night, but over a season he'd have had no problem - even riding with injuries I reckon. Mauger was almost there, but not quite. Banger? Nah! Was never going to be World Champ. More a Simmons, Kennett, Autrey type. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted September 1, 2009 Banger? Nah! Was never going to be World Champ. One of only FIVE riders to lose a run-off for the title in a WF who never actually won the thing; and one of only two of these (Waterman being the other...) to finish on the rostrum again after the run-off failure, so that puts him up there and abouts.. It would be SIX, but as Moran was later stripped of his silver medal due to 'drugs' seems prudent to leave him out... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norbold 7,110 Posted September 1, 2009 Briggs, without a doubt. He was far and away the best rider in the World that year, and pre-final it was pretty much a question of who would come second to Briggs on World Final night. Admittedly he fluffed it a bit on the night, but over a season he'd have had no problem - even riding with injuries I reckon. Mauger was almost there, but not quite. Banger? Nah! Was never going to be World Champ. More a Simmons, Kennett, Autrey type. Yes, I think you're probably right. Out of interest I just looked up my own 1967 World Final programme. In my younger days I used to predict the winner of each race by making a mark by the side of the rider I thought would win. I see that in heat 2, when Barry met Ove and Banger, I predicted Barry to win. In fact Barry was the only rider I predicted would win all five of his heats. I predicted Ivan would win four, only losing out to Briggo. Ove got my vote in three races and Banger in two. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grachan 7,362 Posted September 1, 2009 One of only FIVE riders to lose a run-off for the title in a WF who never actually won the thing; and one of only two of these (Waterman being the other...) to finish on the rostrum again after the run-off failure, so that puts him up there and abouts.. It would be SIX, but as Moran was later stripped of his silver medal due to 'drugs' seems prudent to leave him out... A fascinating piece of random trivia! Having looked it up on Wiki, the other 3 must have been Jack Biggs, Bernt Persson and Craig Boyce. I assume they didn't have run-offs in the days of Eric Langton. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norbold 7,110 Posted September 1, 2009 A fascinating piece of random trivia! Having looked it up on Wiki, the other 3 must have been Jack Biggs, Bernt Persson and Craig Boyce. I assume they didn't have run-offs in the days of Eric Langton. Eric Langton did lose in a run-off with Lionel Van Praag. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted September 1, 2009 A fascinating piece of random trivia! Having looked it up on Wiki, the other 3 must have been Jack Biggs, Bernt Persson and Craig Boyce. I assume they didn't have run-offs in the days of Eric Langton. That's right... Biggs and Boyce being the only two who lost a run-off for the title and didn't even get a runners-up slot out of it...! I did miss out Langton from the very first final though... Odd that I missed that as it was surely THE most infamous run-off of all time.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norbold 7,110 Posted September 1, 2009 I did miss out Langton from the very first final though... Odd that I missed that as it was surely THE most infamous run-off of all time.. According to Langton's version anyway, conveniently aired in public after Van Praag had died and couldn't refute it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
star ghost 7 Posted September 1, 2009 That is the best time to air the story, Norbold. Not much can be disputed then with any degree of certainty But I still struggle to beleive it Anyhow Ove would have beat them all whatever system was in use. Except when SVEMO got in a snot and banned him Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,953 Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) So who would have won an 11-round GP series each year from 1936 to 1994? Let's start in 1936. Would it have been Bluey Wilkinson? After all, he was regarded as the best rider in the world. But maybe he wouldn't have won. He was injured at one stage of the season, which is why his bonus points contribution to the World Final was only 10. Eric Langton was the most consistent rider in the qualifiers. Over a GP series without the bias to the Wembley round (Van Praag's home track), it's likely Langton would have triumphed. So that's 1936 dusted. Anybody want to do 1937? All the best Rob Edited September 1, 2009 by lucifer sam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grachan 7,362 Posted September 1, 2009 Reckon I might have to sit out a few of these for a while. Apart from my fantastic im-depth knowledge of 1967, I'll probably have to wait until Phil Crump's obvious GP victory in 1975 to give definite answers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sandman 0 Posted September 2, 2009 you guys have far too much time on your hands. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted September 2, 2009 you guys have far too much time on your hands. I think you should've waited a little before making this judgement..? Perhaps until we'd got as far as the 1958 Final...!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,953 Posted September 4, 2009 Who's gonna decide 1937 then?? All the best Rob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
