Future of the GP's...?

[salty 2,202]

I thought the old style of World finals left a lot to be desired to be honest. The qualifying rounds had long lost their lustre by 1994 and whilst there is a lot to be said for the drama of the one-off finals I can't see a return to those days I'm afraid.

 

Prefer the 24 rider knock out system to the 16 rider 20 Heat formula we have at the moment though.

[TonyMac 720]

RACERS AND ROYAL…

 

I AM sure BSI/IMG would like the quality of racing (entertainment) at

SGP events to improve but the remedy is not quite as easy as many on

this forum seem to think.

 

I think it is important to understand that what British fans might

perceive to be boring and dull racing is not necessarily seen that way

by viewers and spectators elsewhere.

 

Attendances at SGP rounds this year have been more than acceptable –

Latvia had their best to date, 20,000 were at Vojens, Krsko was an

improvement on last year – but nobody is resting on their laurels.

 

Yes, the FIM Jury – which is entirely divorced from BSI/IMG - do

report on all aspects of the meeting that are within their

jurisdiction … racing, fairness of gates, etc. What happens to those

reports is anyone’s guess, however.

 

Another contributor here suggests that the FIM should take the rights

away from BSI for making a mockery of it. He or she obviously has no

conception of what BSI do or do not control. All aspects of the actual

racing – track, appointment of officials, including referees, the

pits, rider facilities, machinery, etc, come under the FIM umbrella.

 

First BSI and now BSI/IMG have made huge improvements to all aspects

of the actual staging and running of a SGP event.

 

If you read Speedway Star this week you will learn what making a

mockery of speedway is really all about.

 

Ole Olsen is a favourite target here but, believe it or not, his

actual influence on the preparation of some tracks is nowhere near as

much as you think.

 

And it isn’t only SGP events that suffer from poor racing surfaces.

How many British tracks are properly prepared? No that many. Sadly

there is no cast iron formula for making “the perfect track” but very

little effort or investment is made to try and solve the riddle.

 

And let’s not lose sight of the fact that Emil Sayfutdinov had no

complaints about the track in Krsko. As Barry Briggs – in my humble

opinion among the greatest motorcycle riders ever – said: “Emil can

see racing lines others cannot, he used the ruts to get grip, he is a

fantastic talent and the only one who actually rode properly all night.”

 

Perhaps that is why he, the youngest and most inexperienced rider in

the field, won and Matej Zagar didn’t rather than because the track

wasn’t to his liking.

 

There is also the issue of tyres, which the FIM ignore and is again

pinpointed in Speedway Star (yes, another plug) this week.

Efforts to produce better SGP tracks, maybe even with an artificial

surface, are on going.

 

Racing in the old one-off World Finals was, in my eyes from 1962 to

1994, never that great and the occasion was dramatic because the World

Champion was crowned that night rather than the entertainment served

up through 20 often processional and action-less heats.

 

We (and that includes Olsen and BSI/IMG) love to witness speedway on

the perfect track. It is the Holy Grail of the sport and hopefully

standards will improve.

 

PHILIP RISING

[orion 7,615]

And it isn't only SGP events that suffer from poor racing surfaces.

How many British tracks are properly prepared? No that many. Sadly

there is no cast iron formula for making "the perfect track" but very

little effort or investment is made to try and solve the riddle.

 

 

 

PHILIP RISING

 

 

British speedway tracks may well suffer from poor racing surfaces but it's never for the same reason as it is for g p's ,what is a lack of dirt on them time and time again .

 

I watched countless league meetings at Bydgoszcz where the track has product fantanstic racing only to find Come gp time to it be nothing like the surface it is for a league match ....it's not unlucky it's not by chance it's by design .

 

The reason the fans want to know is why ? scared of getting it wrong ? scared of the tv coverage running late ?who knows but there is a reason .

[ballinger 32]

First BSI and now BSI/IMG have made huge improvements to all aspects

of the actual staging and running of a SGP event.

 

They should have done - they've only had 10 years to get it 'right'

 

We (and that includes Olsen and BSI/IMG) love to witness speedway on

the perfect track. It is the Holy Grail of the sport and hopefully

standards will improve.

 

However I and many others (witness comments on here) have got fed up of waiting.

[Humphrey Appleby 13,957]

Attendances at SGP rounds this year have been more than acceptable –

Latvia had their best to date, 20,000 were at Vojens, Krsko was an improvement on last year

 

Could we request the Daugavpils and Krsko crowd figures for 2008 and 2009 please, so we can compare with previous published figures?

 

All aspects of the actual racing – track, appointment of officials, including referees, the pits, rider facilities, machinery, etc, come under the FIM umbrella.

 

The key question is which camp (FIM or BSI/IMG) the Race Director falls into. According to the FIM Regulations for the SGP (see http://www.fim-live.com/fileadmin/alfresco...AY_SGP_Eng.pdf), the Race Director has executive responsibility for a number of aspects of a GP, the pertinent issues being listed below

 

077.2.3 "The Race Director is responsible for the conduct and efficient running of the FIM Speedway World Championship Grand Prix (SGP)."

 

077.4.2 "Track Inspection - At each Grand Prix meeting, prior to any practice or racing taking place, the Race Director, accompanied by the Referee and the Clerk of the Course, must carry out a track inspection and if necessary, order any measure(s) to comply with every security provision for riders, officials and spectators."

 

077.4.4 "Stadium facilities inspection - The Race Director and the Speedway Grand Prix Promoter will carry out a stadium facilities inspection prior to the FIM Conference Meetings for final approval."

 

Reg. 077.6 "The Race Director will decide on watering, grading etc. of the track according to the conditions."

 

And it isn’t only SGP events that suffer from poor racing surfaces. How many British tracks are properly prepared? No that many.

 

On this you have a valid point, but the SGP is supposed to be the pinnacle of the sport, and presumably has a relatively bigger budget for track preparation. To be honest, I suspect it's quite hard to prepare a good temporary track surface, but the general consensus on here seems to be that even normally quite good permanent racing circuits suffer from the GP treatment.

 

Racing in the old one-off World Finals was, in my eyes from 1962 to 1994, never that great and the occasion was dramatic because the World Champion was crowned that night rather than the entertainment served up through 20 often processional and action-less heats.

 

Hmm... I suspect I shall have to pay a visit to the loft to dig out some out Speedway Stars...

Edited September 13, 2009 by Humphrey Appleby

[Ghostwalker 1,859]

there are already rumours that both Krsko and Dagauvpils will be replaced for next season.

Croatia is mentioned as possible replacement for Krsko.

 

Regarding BSI they are only seems interested in making a profit as large as possible.

15'000 people at Ullevi is more then 8000 in Eskilstuna and if the racing at Ullevi is more like motocross

well they don't seem to care coz they got twice as many people.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Ghostwalker

[RobMcCaffery 2,752]

RACERS AND ROYAL…

 

1 - I AM sure BSI/IMG would like the quality of racing (entertainment) at

SGP events to improve but the remedy is not quite as easy as many on

this forum seem to think.

 

2 - I think it is important to understand that what British fans might

perceive to be boring and dull racing is not necessarily seen that way

by viewers and spectators elsewhere.

 

3 - Attendances at SGP rounds this year have been more than acceptable –

Latvia had their best to date, 20,000 were at Vojens, Krsko was an

improvement on last year – but nobody is resting on their laurels.

 

4 - First BSI and now BSI/IMG have made huge improvements to all aspects

of the actual staging and running of a SGP event.

 

5 -And it isn’t only SGP events that suffer from poor racing surfaces.

How many British tracks are properly prepared? No that many. Sadly

there is no cast iron formula for making “the perfect track” but very

little effort or investment is made to try and solve the riddle.

 

6 - There is also the issue of tyres, which the FIM ignore and is again

pinpointed in Speedway Star (yes, another plug) this week.

Efforts to produce better SGP tracks, maybe even with an artificial

surface, are on going.

 

7 - Racing in the old one-off World Finals was, in my eyes from 1962 to

1994, never that great and the occasion was dramatic because the World

Champion was crowned that night rather than the entertainment served

up through 20 often processional and action-less heats.

 

8 - We (and that includes Olsen and BSI/IMG) love to witness speedway on

the perfect track. It is the Holy Grail of the sport and hopefully

standards will improve.

 

PHILIP RISING

 

Philip, many thanks for your as-usual informative posting on the subject of the SGP. I do wish that more people with knowledge of and influence in the sport such as yours would post openly here as you do. Perhaps we could raise the level of debate above that of "my team's bigger than your team" that so wastes the opportunity given by a forum like this.

 

Now you raise several points that I'd like to offer some thoughts on which for convenience I've numbered. I hope that you could clarify on some if possible.

 

1 - I don't think people really think it's an easy problem to remedy but I'm sure many posters will be glad to know that the problem is recognised.

 

2 - I can appreciate that expectations of racing quality can vary from track to track let alone couintry. I saw a lot of my early speedway at Hackney which while it had significant safety problems was a track that in its heyday provided excellent racing.

 

However it grieves me that the BEL has been brought to its knees in order to provide Slovenian fans with the dross that we saw on Saturday night.

 

I've never been a big fan of World Championship or individual racing itself. At least under the previous format it could carry on without wrecking my main focus, team league speedway. A trip to Wembley every few years was a bit of light relief and it didn't wreck eleven weekends a year.

 

3 - Attendances. I'm glad to hear that they are holding-up. The hype is very effective. It's a moot point for how long of course. For many the meetings are the major event of a track or country's season so I suppose plenty will go for the sense of occasion even if the intrinsic product is deeply lacking. As you say perceptions of what makes a good speedway meeting do differ.

 

4 - It is clear that the staging of events is very professional and some may say it has to be in view of the underlying product.

 

5 - I agree with you totally about track surfaces. This is a fundamental problem that has to be resolved. As I have said many times you have to have racing to capture the passing fan and hold those you have. If the racing's great it's remarkable how the problems of the sport seem to be so less important.

 

6 - It's great to see that some research & development in speedway is looking at how to improve the product rather than just make it faster. I look forward to being informed of the tyre issue.

 

7 - Yes the racing wasn't always that great especially at Wembley. It wasn't so important when in effect the World Championship was a kind of 'side-show' to the real product in established speedway nations - league racing and while qualifying rounds were disruptive there were only a handful of meetings to disrupt this instead of eleven.

 

8 - Nobody expects perfection but it's not a bad thing to aim for...

 

The SGP has been a boon to lesser speedway nations but Britain in particular has been battered by it. It would be easier to accept this if much of the time it wasn't so downright boring!

 

I just wish the fundamental product was as good as its presentation.

 

Rob McCaffery.

 

Edited to add one extra point. It would be useful to know how BSI feel about the last two GPs' treatment by Sky. I'd be concerned, are they?

Edited September 14, 2009 by rmc

[Mark Evans 3]

2 valve engines, loads of dirt.... may the most skillfull win, not the best gater.......well thats my theory anyway

[TonyMac 720]

GHOSTWALKER …

SURE Croatia will join the series, probably next year and there is no doubt that Krsko may have run its course especially now that the local municipal authorities, who have helped the club financially, are short of money.

 

ESKILSTUNA was always a closure waiting to happen and the profile for the SGP on the global stage is obviously much higher at Ullevi. But they have spent hundreds of thousands of pounds buying and transporting materials to Sweden, which they believe will ensure they can get the track right.

 

The problem there this year was a very hot sun from a cloudless sky and a high wind. It was impossible to stop the track from drying out no matter how much water went on it. Interestingly, a product has come to light that, if mixed with water, retains moisture in the ground. Trials are taking place.

 

HUMPHREY APPLEBY (is that your real name?) …

 

077.2.3 "The Race Director is responsible for the conduct and efficient running of the FIM Speedway World Championship Grand Prix (SGP)."

 

077.4.2 "Track Inspection - At each Grand Prix meeting, prior to any practice or racing taking place, the Race Director, accompanied by the Referee and the Clerk of the Course, must carry out a track inspection and if necessary, order any measure(s) to comply with every security provision for riders, officials and spectators."

 

077.4.4 "Stadium facilities inspection - The Race Director and the Speedway Grand Prix Promoter will carry out a stadium facilities inspection prior to the FIM Conference Meetings for final approval."

 

Reg. 077.6 "The Race Director will decide on watering, grading etc. of the track according to the conditions."

 

 

ALL of the above is correct but in terms of 077.6 it is very much a joint effort with the local guys. Some times they listen, some times they do not.

 

There is no doubt that at Peterborough for the SWC this year the ‘local man’ got it right but that isn’t always the case. Olsen only really has total authority at temporary tracks. The amount of research that has gone into the materials and procedures required for temporary tracks is quite staggering but, as I have said before, there is no perfect recipe. It is not like baking a cake where you open a book, mix a few ingredients, put it in an oven and out pops a speedway track.

 

And, at the risk of repeating myself, Olsen is as keen as anyone to get it right. He was a rider, he still loves watching great racing, he drools over young Emil, he has a great passion.

 

If the FIM, who earn huge fees from the commercial rights, spent more of that income on speedway development, including track surfaces, rather than wasting time proposing a new silencer that could (believe me) totally wreck the sport we would all be better off.

 

Attendances … the only official ones that are fed to the media are BSI events but the figures I was given in Latvia was 6,000 and Slovenia last weekend 8,800. I cannot recall what they were last year but both staging clubs rely on financial support from their respective cities.

 

A misconception often seen on this Forum is that the attendance figures are the only consideration for the series. Of course they are critical for the local promoter along with any sponsorship and the money spent at the stadium by fans.

 

From BSI/IMG’s perspective it is a much bigger picture with TV income and audiences the crux of the matter.

 

This year’s British Grand Prix was watched by two million in India, the highest single TV audience in 2009. Not a massive number from a country with a population counted in billions but it is a start.

 

ROB McCAFFERY (me old china)

 

I honestly believe that the expectations of many continental fans in terms of actual racing is very different from those in Britain who see the whole thing from different eyes. We have been brought up in speedway terms very differently.

 

Many, who possibly see only one event a year, are enthralled by the mere spectacle of speedway bikes sliding at such high speeds, the close contact and, let’s face it, spectacular crashes.

 

The first 12 races on Saturday were boring, no doubt about it, but the second half came alive, at least it did if you were there. Fortunately no rider was seriously hurt but the incidents involving Harris, Hancock, Pedersen and Gollob (how did it get away with that?) were amazing.

 

BSI are no doubt unhappy with Sky shunting two of the last three GPs onto the red button.

 

At this time of the year, with so much other live sport, SKY have options but if Emil Sayfutdinov was British I wonder whether things would be different. I am sure Sky are not totally satisfied with the fare on offer but the fact that the two British boys are 14th and 15th in the standings cannot help.

MARK EVANS …

 

YOU will never halt progress, good or bad … Ivan Mauger won six World Championships by being the best gater. Chris Morton, one of the best racers I ever saw, won none. Times haven’t changed that much.

 

Incidentally, I enjoy debating here as long as comments don’t (as often appears to be the case on some subjects) degenerate into slagging matches. What is the point of that?

 

We will never all agree on anything other than a desire to see speedway get bigger and better.

 

PHILIP RISING

[Dave C 42]

RACERS AND ROYAL…

 

I AM sure BSI/IMG would like the quality of racing (entertainment) at

SGP events to improve but the remedy is not quite as easy as many on

this forum seem to think.

 

I think it is important to understand that what British fans might

perceive to be boring and dull racing is not necessarily seen that way

by viewers and spectators elsewhere.

 

Attendances at SGP rounds this year have been more than acceptable –

Latvia had their best to date, 20,000 were at Vojens, Krsko was an

improvement on last year – but nobody is resting on their laurels.

 

Yes, the FIM Jury – which is entirely divorced from BSI/IMG - do

report on all aspects of the meeting that are within their

jurisdiction … racing, fairness of gates, etc. What happens to those

reports is anyone’s guess, however.

 

Another contributor here suggests that the FIM should take the rights

away from BSI for making a mockery of it. He or she obviously has no

conception of what BSI do or do not control. All aspects of the actual

racing – track, appointment of officials, including referees, the

pits, rider facilities, machinery, etc, come under the FIM umbrella.

 

First BSI and now BSI/IMG have made huge improvements to all aspects

of the actual staging and running of a SGP event.

 

If you read Speedway Star this week you will learn what making a

mockery of speedway is really all about.

 

Ole Olsen is a favourite target here but, believe it or not, his

actual influence on the preparation of some tracks is nowhere near as

much as you think.

 

And it isn’t only SGP events that suffer from poor racing surfaces.

How many British tracks are properly prepared? No that many. Sadly

there is no cast iron formula for making “the perfect track” but very

little effort or investment is made to try and solve the riddle.

 

And let’s not lose sight of the fact that Emil Sayfutdinov had no

complaints about the track in Krsko. As Barry Briggs – in my humble

opinion among the greatest motorcycle riders ever – said: “Emil can

see racing lines others cannot, he used the ruts to get grip, he is a

fantastic talent and the only one who actually rode properly all night.”

 

Perhaps that is why he, the youngest and most inexperienced rider in

the field, won and Matej Zagar didn’t rather than because the track

wasn’t to his liking.

 

There is also the issue of tyres, which the FIM ignore and is again

pinpointed in Speedway Star (yes, another plug) this week.

Efforts to produce better SGP tracks, maybe even with an artificial

surface, are on going.

 

Racing in the old one-off World Finals was, in my eyes from 1962 to

1994, never that great and the occasion was dramatic because the World

Champion was crowned that night rather than the entertainment served

up through 20 often processional and action-less heats.

 

We (and that includes Olsen and BSI/IMG) love to witness speedway on

the perfect track. It is the Holy Grail of the sport and hopefully

standards will improve.

 

PHILIP RISING

 

 

Firstly Philip, thank-you for taking the time to respond to some of the points that have been raised. If other people who are also directly involved in the sport responded in the same considered way that you have on several occasions, it would go a long way to diffusing much of the negative and damaging nonsense that often originates on the forum.

 

There are many words that could be used to sum up the collective consensus: Disappointing, Predictable, Uninspired, Repetitive, Tedious and Tiresome, to name but a few, but thats enough about Tony Millard's comentary...

 

The truth is that the GP is consistently failing to live up to the promise that it has shown in the past, or the undoubted potential that it has as a series. The biggest problem without a doubt is the poor quality of the racing on offer. The reason why the preparation of the tracks is always criticised, is because we have all seen what these riders are capable of when they are given the right conditions on which to perform.

 

While there have always been issues with the temporary tracks, somewhat ironically they seem to be getting better (or at least safer) than they have been in the past. Perhaps the biggest frustration is that some of the best racing tracks in the world (Leszno & Bydgoszcz for example) seem to be prepared completely differently to how they are usually prepared for league racing. It is of course the same riders who race at these tracks regularly in the leagues, so the question that never seems to be answered satisfactorily is why are the GP tracks prepared in the (generally slick) way they are? Keith Hewen asks this same question at nearly every event and he doesn't seem to ever get a response! The only common link throughout is Ole Olsen, in his capacity as race director, so it is only natural that we all look to him for answers, as he is ultimately responsible.

 

The net result is an endless succession of meetings which are in the main a very poor spectacle, whether watching on TV, or in the stands. When the die-hards are losing heart, there really is very little prospect of newcomers being attracted to the sport, and this is surely the priority for any series which has an aspiration to grow.

 

Unlike many on the forum, I am not a BSI basher or one of the rose tinted "World Finals were better" brigade. I have always supported the Grand Prix as a concept, but I just find it very sad that it doesn't fulfill the undoubted promise that it has. Much is made of new markets opening up for TV coverage, but if the product is as dull and uninspired as it often is, these efforts will be in vain.

 

I have much respect for what BSI initially achieved in terms of transforming the series at the start of the decade. While he was not everyones cup of tea, John Postlethwaite seemed to drive the series for-wards in many respects, but since he left there seems to be a strange void, which is summed up by the continual confusion about who actually runs the SGP. We are told it is "BSI - an IMG company" but what does this really mean?. Nearly three seasons have now passed since IMG assumed control, and I wonder how they really view the SGP. Was their involvement simply a convenient way for Postlethwaite to quietly make his exit, or do they have a genuine long term strategy for the series? And more importantly, are they happy with the product which is served up?

 

As far as the Sky "red button" issue, I feel this has more to do with the fact that the two British riders in the series are at the bottom of the championship table, rather than any other reason. If either of them was challenging Jason Crump at the top of the leader-board, I think they would have a very different priority in terms of their coverage. With the exception of the excruciating Tony Millard, I feel the Sky coverage is generally excellent. As a commercial broadcaster, all Sky will ever really worry about is the viewing figures, and that must be the real worry for speedway coverage. If people get bored and disillusioned enough, they will eventually cancel their subscriptions, and that is when the sport as a whole will really need to worry.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Dave C

[Ghostwalker 1,859]

TMC

the track have been a disgrace at Ullevi every year. It was that this year, it was even worse last year,

in 2004 it was the same kind of motocross track and in 2003 well they actually had to to postpone the GP a week

after the riders striked.

[RobMcCaffery 2,752]

I must echo the thanks to Phil (me old mucka?) for taking part in this debate. It does show what the forum is capable of if people treat it properly.

 

I hate what the GPs have done to British Speedway but while we have them it's vital that they are a top quality product throughout. The point regarding the failure of the British riders in this year's series is a very vaild one in terms of the events' appeal in this country. The poverty of the racing at times, not just in Krsko surely doesn't help and has to be a concern.

 

Yes Sky have many sports to show on a Saturday night but I doubt whether there's more than there have been over the past seasons. Most of Sky's top-level development lately has been in the field of European mid-week football so I would suspect they are very disllusioned with us. With the BEL having had a torrid season let's hope for some great play-off matches to give an encouraging finale to what has been a difficult year for televised speedway.

 

Rob McCaffery.

 

Another afterthought. I'd suggest BSI have a few words with the Slovenian start line girls to see if they have a few more Saturdays free next year...

Edited September 14, 2009 by rmc

[Bryn 413]

I must echo the thanks to Phil (me old mucka?) for taking part in this debate. It does show what the forum is capable of if people treat it properly.

 

And I'll certainly echo those thoughts too.

 

I hate what the GPs have done to British Speedway but while we have them it's vital that they are a top quality product throughout.

Rob McCaffery.

 

Another afterthought. I'd suggest BSI have a few words with the Slovenian start line girls to see if they have a few more Saturdays free next year...

 

Much as I enjoyed the one off finals over many years the GP's ARE, I sure, here to stay. The main drawback of the GP system though as I see it is that some riders are chosen to be in it rather than having to qualify to be in it although I fully accept the logic behind inclusion of one 'wildcard' per round.

 

And as for the Slovenian start line girls 'young' Robert, you surely would much prefer the legendary Hackney Kestrelettes to be signed up for the whole series rather than them wouldn't you?

 

Go to: http://www.hackneyreunion.com/Photo-Gallery to remind yourself of their grace, poise and other attributes!

Edited September 14, 2009 by Bryn

[Pirate Nick 1,801]

And as for the Slovenian start line girls 'young' Robert, you surely would much prefer the legendary Hackney Kestrelettes to be signed up for the whole series rather than them wouldn't you?

 

Go to: http://www.hackneyreunion.com/Photo-Gallery to remind yourself of their grace, poise and other attributes!

 

Isnt there a watershed for photos like that?

[Parsloes 1928 nearly 495]

If you read Speedway Star this week you will learn what making a

mockery of speedway is really all about.

PHILIP RISING

 

Is it only me wondering what this aside is referring to..?!