Future of the GP's...?

[Stevie b 0]

Phillip, I understand what you say about how the GPs are appreciated in other countries and yes we may have a different take on them in this country.

However a worrying aspect on Sky on Saturday was Keith Hewens comments that the track conditions are possibly bringing the sport into disrepute.

Interesting to see you say that Ole Olsen does not have as much say in track preperation as most people seem to think.

That's as maybe, the fact remains that Saturday was not the first time a rider has made the same comment as Zager.

If my memory serves me right it was at Lesno in the World Team Cup and it was Leigh Adams. I am not able to quote verbatim but it went along these lines, he said that the track is very different tonight and there is nothing you can do about it and shrugged his shoulders.

He usually says something like it's the same for all of us and we just have to get on with it, difficult to relate on here but his body language on the night spoke volumes.

I for one would miss Sky's coverage, I can even put up with Mr Millard repeatedly telling me Holta is on a polish Licence. ok only just.

As others have suggested Sky may walk away, I hope they don't

 

[AndyM 1]

We (and that includes Olsen and BSI/IMG) love to witness speedway on

the perfect track. It is the Holy Grail of the sport and hopefully

standards will improve.

 

PHILIP RISING

Phil, with all due respect to those who prepare tracks for the GP circus, this is an art and/or science proven over decades. If you have the right expertise, the right tools and the right raw materials, it should be quite possible to provide a track capable of high quality racing at every venue - just as our cricket authorities insist on a minimum standard for pitches, which are uniformally inspected and punishments meted out to those who fail to provide pitches meeting the required standard. It should never be a "holy grail", it should be the very minimum we expect.

 

Your point about what people expect to see is also erroneous. People might cheer if their own riders are in front but the expectation is clearly for close, exciting racing with multiple racing lines so the most skilled rider can always win whether or not he gates first. If you cannot provide a track with that capability, something is wrong.

[racers and royals 8,730]

I would like to add my thanks to phil for his answers.i can only echo the thoughts of many that the GP`s are the pinnacle of this great sport,and its frustrating to a lot of us that the racing has gone downhill over recent years.I would say that when one is actually at the track it always seems a better meeting than for the people watching it on tv at home.

 

My own gripe is that there is never any bite (grip) on the tracks-if only there was more dirt riders would be able to use the outside more.

 

one point that has been made before is the damage practice does to the track-obviously the rules have changed(offically or maybe un-offically)about riders having to be at practice eg Scott Nicholls.If there was more money in the sport, instead of practice the day before they could have test days,weeks before the GP(obviously couldn`t be done at Copenhagen and Cardiff)

 

As regards Gothenburg Phil i was there getting covered in dust on the first bend from heat one onwards and i arrived at my seat very early and i certainly didnt see continual watering-they only came out twice in 2 hrs and during the meeting they didnt put any water on the inside third of the track Didn`t they have problems at practice after watering ?

[jeff... 0]

QUOTE (Stevie b @ Sep 14 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Phillip, I understand what you say about how the GPs are appreciated in other countries and yes we may have a different take on them in this country.

However a worrying aspect on Sky on Saturday was Keith Hewens comments that the track conditions are possibly bringing the sport into disrepute.

Interesting to see you say that Ole Olsen does not have as much say in track preperation as most people seem to think.

That's as maybe, the fact remains that Saturday was not the first time a rider has made the same comment as Zager.

If my memory serves me right it was at Lesno in the World Team Cup and it was Leigh Adams. I am not able to quote verbatim but it went along these lines, he said that the track is very different tonight and there is nothing you can do about it and shrugged his shoulders.

He usually says something like it's the same for all of us and we just have to get on with it, difficult to relate on here but his body language on the night spoke volumes.

I for one would miss Sky's coverage, I can even put up with Mr Millard repeatedly telling me Holta is on a polish Licence. ok only just.

As others have suggested Sky may walk away, I hope they don't

 

Sky are only concerned in high viewing figures, high figures equates to a premium rate for the ad breaks, so while they may not care what crap is being shown once that crap makes viewers start to turn off the GP speedway will be no more

 

[Ghostwalker 1,859]

And I'll certainly echo those thoughts too.

 

 

 

Much as I enjoyed the one off finals over many years the GP's ARE, I sure, here to stay. The main drawback of the GP system though as

I see it is that some riders are chosen to be in it rather than having to qualify to be in it although I fully accept the logic behind inclusion of one 'wildcard' per round.

 

Well there are scenarios that i think can justify a Wild Card system.

 

There is allot of injuries in speedway and a rider can enter the qualifications but hwta happenes

if they get injured while leading the Quali semi but because if the injury he cannot continue the semi and misses the

chance to qualify for the Gp challenge. Or even worse a GP rider enters the qualifications but also gets injured

while riding a the qualifications. For this rider too the injury prevents further advancement in the qualifications.

The injury also causes this rider to finish outside the top 8 (he was with top 8 before injury) don't you think it would a good

idea with a WC system so that this rider can be in the gp the next season?

 

The qualifications also sometimes reward those who are familiar with the track so i don't know if it would be possible but i would like to have

2-3 CP challenge finals instead of one just to make sure that no rider gets too much advantage from the track.

 

I think that the WC system is good if used in an appropriate way.

However i do think that is totally wrong to give the same people the WCs year after year.

Like Nicholls should not get another WC because he have already got his chances

 

Also Isn't Emil S a WC rider this year?

[RobMcCaffery 2,752]

And as for the Slovenian start line girls 'young' Robert, you surely would much prefer the legendary Hackney Kestrelettes to be signed up for the whole series rather than them wouldn't you?

 

They are probably old enough to be of interest now ;-)

 

Now look young Superkin......er Bryn (must look up definition of 'young') I may have severed my links with Rye House many a season ago but my interest in Hackney was purely academic ;-) - and Mrs.McC would throw a fit - not for looking at young girls mainly because she was a Hawk and certainly not a 'budgie' ;-) . She still calls the Hackney Kestrels "The Leyton Buzzards".

 

Hmm - on second thoughts that isn't the troupe of hairy/bearded cheer 'girls' mainly recruited from the Vic Harding Lounge by any chance?

 

Veering rapidly back on-topic....

 

This has been a fascinating debate. If Sky are allowing presenters to criticise the product you can guarantee that it is in a very weak position. The mantra at Sky is always to talk the product up.

 

I am sure that a very detailed review of product quality is needed by BSI - not in the presentation which is first class but in that core product, the racing. Certain tracks have abjectly failed to provide a worthwhile TV show. They must concentrate on those GPs that worked and produced great TV, not just atmosphere and either make sure that other venues are b`rought up to standard or deleted from the schedule.

 

Quite simply if a track doesn't entertain it's future on the schedule has to be reviewed irrespective of how powerful the organising club or federation is. Equally if tracks are not being prepared to their best potential steps have to be taken now. The SWC round at Peterborough was excellent. If it takes a decent budget, quality materials and local expertise to make these events work then those elements MUST be used.

 

We must not waste the opportunity that we have to sell the sport both nationally and world-wide.

 

The sport deserves better than the 2009 GP series.

 

Rob McCaffery.

Edited September 14, 2009 by rmc

[Parsloes 1928 nearly 495]

7 - Yes the racing wasn't always that great especially at Wembley.

 

Ah, but sometimes it was!!!

 

 

 

And no, neither clip is from 1981!!

 

:approve:

[Humphrey Appleby 13,958]

Regarding BSI they are only seems interested in making a profit as large as possible.

 

Of course they are. They're a commercial company who are in it to make money (although one may question whether they're actually doing so) and I don't blame them for that for a moment.

 

The real issue though, is why the speedway promoters in the professional speedway nations allowed their premier product to be sold off to a third party with barely a squeak of indignation. Of course, the old World Championship had been run into the ground by the previous incumbents, but it just demonstrates the lack of vision that generally exists in the sport. There's nothing to stop the BSPA, PZM and SVEMO doing exactly what BSI did, yet they're seemingly happy to allow a commercial company with no previous stake in the sport to come along and skim off the cream.

 

Many riders from the past have said in interviews in magazines such as Backtrack, that they wished the GP system had been around in their day.

 

Unfortunately, the riders are the last people you should be asking. I've learnt over the years that most competitors fail to grasp the economic and practical realities of running professional sports, and should have nothing more than advisory input into the decision making process.

 

That said, I can see the benefits of a GP system in speedway if the number of rounds are somewhat limited, and that any revenue accrues to directly to those actually running the sport at various levels, rather than an US-based sports management company that doesn't.

 

Was their involvement simply a convenient way for Postlethwaite to quietly make his exit, or do they have a genuine long term strategy for the series?

 

A trawl around the Internet provides some indicators as to why BSI might have been sold to IMG, such as the financial state of certain associated companies.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Humphrey Appleby

[RobMcCaffery 2,752]

Ah, but sometimes it was!!!

 

 

 

And no, neither clip is from 1981!!

 

:approve:

 

Oh yes Derek, Wembley had its moments, but also its critics. I always enjoyed it there, not just for the atmosphere of the place albeit with outdated and inadequate facilities by the end.

 

Rob McCaffery.

[Humphrey Appleby 13,958]

If the FIM, who earn huge fees from the commercial rights, spent more of that income on speedway development, including track surfaces, rather than wasting time proposing a new silencer that could (believe me) totally wreck the sport we would all be better off.

 

But is it not the case that FIM pays the GP prize money, so most of the commercial rights fees go towards this?

 

To be honest, I find the various buck passing for the poor spectacle to be a little weak. If I were paying 1 million quid a year or so for the rights to something, I'd make damn sure the contract allowed me to do things the way I wanted, and I'd certainly not put myself in the position where I'd have to kowtow to committees and other third parties with respect to my core product. I find it a little surprising that any professional organisational company would seemingly agree to such terms, because I certainly wouldn't in my business.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Humphrey Appleby

[TonyMac 720]

HUMPHREY …

 

SPEEDWAY’S World Championship is property of the FIM not the promoters

of the various speedway nations and SVEMO and the PZM (unlike the BSPA

of course) are affiliated national associations of not just speedway

but all forms of motorcycle racing in their respective countries.

 

If, for example, the BSPA set up its own series any riders taking part

would not be licenced by the FIM and unable to take part in any other

speedway or motorcycle racing outside of the UK.

 

British representation at the FIM is through the ACU and they, like

SVEMO, the PZM and the DMU, can make their voices heard in Geneva

should they object to the selling of the SGP commercial rights to BSI

and now IMG.

 

The FIM’s income from the Grand Prix comes not only from their

contract with IMG, which more than covers prize money, but also the

inscription fees charged to each staging track. I am not sure what

that is but it is in the region of $20,000.

 

As with revenue from all other motorcycle disciplines, it goes into

the FIM pot and we could discuss all night what happens to it after

that. IMG would surely argue that they make a contribution to those

actually running the sport at all levels via the FIM and if it doesn’t

filter down then it is in Switzerland that the questions need to be

asked.

 

Owning the commercial rights does not give IMG total control. IMG own

the rights to the Rugby World Cup but I doubt they would be allowed to

move the goalposts if they wanted.

 

They can no more control what happens on the rugby field than they can

what on a speedway track. It is a partnership each with its own

clearly defined role.

 

Of course, they would hope to influence certain aspects but, as with

the proposed new silencer regulations, the FIM have the final say.

 

PHILIP RISING

[tomcat 21]

I would also like to Thank Mr Rising for taking the time to come on here and

try to give us an insight into the world of the Speedway GP series.

 

I did enjoy the old One Off World Finals, but as with most things these days, progress

means change, which is fine, but if the 'New' product is failing, then someone in

authority needs to take a long hard look at the product and take on board the need

to improve it.

The GP presentation, Start line Girls, parades etc etc are fine, but the actual racing is

nothing short of sterile and its turning fans off the series very quickly.

Track preperation is not that difficult, regardless of weather, humidity etc etc.

Any half decent trackman, with the correct tools, will produce a good honest surface,

that will allow the riders to race at a decent level, even those that cant gate to save

their lives. I've done the job with very little in the way of materials and always

managed to produce a 'racers' track. If you put the effort in, you get the rewards.

 

As for the 'Invited' riders, thats a sham. Did the World Champion automatically

qualify when we did have the One Off World Final? No of course not, he had to

qualify by right, the same as any other rider that entered the World Championship.

Ok, its too late to alter the setup as far as the top 8 goes, although I think that it

should be reduced to the top 6 and let the rest qualify by right through a proper

series of qualifying rounds. If a rider doesnt take that option and fails to make the top

6 on merit, thats his tough luck. Absolutely NO more Wild Card entries, with the exception of the one chosen for his 'Home' GP, as it is now.

 

What we should be seeing, in my own opinion, is a series of one off World Final type rounds, which I assume was the vision when the GP series first started. Somewhere along the line it got waylaid and we now have the farcical situation we see now.

Riders given a free entry to our sports World Championship, because they ride for a certain country, ie: GB or Poland, why?? If they are good enough, they will qualify for the series by right and in the correct manner. A country will have a representative of their own in their own GP, when it comes around, so why should a better rider be ommitted because of his nationality? Yes I would like to see a BG rider in the series each year, but if they're not good enough, they dont belong in there.

Another thing that rankles with me, is this aspect of a rider racing on a national licence

of another country. Ride under your own country's flag or dont bother.

 

In a nutshell, get some dirt/grip onto the GP tracks and allow good honest qualification

for the series on merit, not a gift. Then we may start to see a true World Championship

contest.

 

And as a final comment on track preperation, agreed, some British tracks, well more than

some if I'm being honest, are no better than the dross we see for a GP, there is no excuse

for that either. A well prepared track gives good racing and will entice paying fans back

to the sport. Slick gate and go rubbish will kill the sport. Its only a matter of time.

Edited September 15, 2009 by tomcat

[jeff... 0]

I would also like to Thank Mr Rising for taking the time to come on here and

try to give us an insight into the world of the Speedway GP series.

 

I did enjoy the old One Off World Finals, but as with most things these days, progress

means change, which is fine, but if the 'New' product is failing, then someone in

authority needs to take a long hard look at the product and take on board the need

to improve it.

The GP presentation, Start line Girls, parades etc etc are fine, but the actual racing is

nothing short of sterile and its turning fans off the series very quickly.

Track preperation is not that difficult, regardless of weather, humidity etc etc.

Any half decent trackman, with the correct tools, will produce a good honest surface,

that will allow the riders to race at a decent level, even those that cant gate to save

their lives. I've done the job with very little in the way of materials and always

managed to produce a 'racers' track. If you put the effort in, you get the rewards.

 

As for the 'Invited' riders, thats a sham. Did the World Champion automatically

qualify when we did have the One Off World Final? No of course not, he had to

qualify by right, the same as any other rider that entered the World Championship.

Ok, its too late to alter the setup as far as the top 8 goes, although I think that it

should be reduced to the top 6 and let the rest qualify by right through a proper

series of qualifying rounds. If a rider doesnt take that option and fails to make the top

6 on merit, thats his tough luck. Absolutely NO more Wild Card entries, with the exception of the one chosen for his 'Home' GP, as it is now.

 

What we should be seeing, in my own opinion, is a series of one off World Final type rounds, which I assume was the vision when the GP series first started. Somewhere along the line it got waylaid and we now have the farcical situation we see now.

Riders given a free entry to our sports World Championship, because they ride for a certain country, ie: GB or Poland, why?? If they are good enough, they will qualify for the series by right and in the correct manner. A country will have a representative of their own in their own GP, when it comes around, so why should a better rider be ommitted because of his nationality? Yes I would like to see a BG rider in the series each year, but if they're not good enough, they dont belong in there.

Another thing that rankles with me, is this aspect of a rider racing on a national licence

of another country. Ride under your own country's flag or dont bother.

 

In a nutshell, get some dirt/grip onto the GP tracks and allow good honest qualification

for the series on merit, not a gift. Then we may start to see a true World Championship

contest.

 

And as a final comment on track preperation, agreed, some British tracks, well more than

some if I'm being honest, are no better than the dross we see for a GP, there is no excuse

for that either. A well prepared track gives good racing and will entice paying fans back

to the sport. Slick gate and go rubbish will kill the sport. Its only a matter of time.

 

You need to check your history before making silly statements, plenty of riders were seeded to the later stages of the championship and some even to the final itself

 

[Mr S Bear 10]

Crowd Figures

In the past the FIM published attendance figures for all motorcycle world championship finals, including speedway, in the first issue of their magazine each year. From these figures I was able to find out attendance figures for 97 of the first 100 GP’s (only missing Linkopping 95, Hackney 96 and Wroclaw 96). This year they decided in their wisdom not to publish these figures and Oliver Godallier the FIM Marketing and Communications Director told me that if I want the figures for 2008 to go to the promoters website www.speedwayworld.tv I have contacted Nicola Sands the speedway press officer at BSI/IMG twice, in May and August, asking for the figures for 2008 but so far I have had no response so I assume that BSI/IMG are unable or unwilling to release the figures into the public domain.

In post 17 Phillip Rising states that the attendance in Latvia in 2009 was the best to date and in post 24 he says that he was informed that the figure was 6000. According to official FIM attendance figures in 2006 the attendance at Daugavpils was 9000 and this dropped to 7000 in 2007.

In post 17 Mr Rising states that the 2009 attendance was up 2008, a figure which is not as yet in the public domain and in post 24 the 2009 figures is given as 8800. Based on FIM figures from 2002-2007 the average attendance at Krsko was 8166 and ranged from 12000 in 2002 to 7000 in 2005 & 2006. For a full breakdown for the first 100 GP’s attendance figures see www.speedwayfan.co.uk

So the question is will anyone contracted directly or indirectly with BSI/IMG be prepared to release attendance figures for the 2008 and 2009 GP’s?

MoneyNo doubt the SGP makes a good product to sell to TV companies throughout the world, although one is bound to ask why then IMG seem unable to sell the air fence advertising. At most GP’s a large percentage of the airfence ads are the upcoming GP’s and how many international companies are associated with the GP’s?

Also who gains from the large viewing figures, 100 million in India? One assumes that BSI/IMG get income from the TV rights but how much goes to the workers, the riders risking their lives. Up to and including the GP at Vojens in 2009 the riders had earned on average per GP as follows

Crump $11,000, Sayfutdinov $8000, Gollob $6200, Hancock $5900, Jonsson $5500, Lindgren $5100, Bjerre £5100, Andersen $4500, Holta $4300, Adams $4000, Ulamek $4000, Harris $3843, Pedersen $5125, Walasek $3600 and Nicholls $3400 with the average exchange rate being £1=$1.52 and these figures cover all riders expenses, travelling, accommodation and points.

When was the last time that the riders had an increase in the money they earned and are BSI/IMG planning to increase the monies that riders can earn. For a breakdown of what riders have earned from previous GP series see www.speedwayfan.co.uk

 

[Trees 2,814]

The FIM pay the riders so it's up to them to put the money up?? BSI/IMG pay their bit to the FIM and if they make any more it's theirs to keep, it's why they bought the promotional rights of the series.