Maddas69 21 Posted September 17, 2009 Generally true, but remember Ullevi 2003? Start with a pool of, say, 24 riders and select them so each rides a certain number of GPs but not all? Yes I remember Ullevi, but that was/is a one-off track not a permanent one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeff... 0 Posted September 17, 2009 Silly statement?? WoW. OK, so when were all but 4 or 5 riders ever seeded directly to any one off World Final? None that I can remember and thats over a 40 odd year period. In todays GP series, we have the top 8 seeded, plus the permanent Wild Cards, with just 3 riders actually qualifying from the GP challenge at Coventry on Friday evening. And I am not going back as far as the Star Trophy, or whtever it was called way back when the likes of Price and co were racing, as that wasn't ratified by the FIM as an official World Championship, to the best of my knowledge. I am talking about the FIM approved World Championship. Of course some riders got a free ticket to a World Final, but never ever to the degree that they do today. So please refrain from stating that it was a silly statement and check the facts that are there for all to see. Oh and if you're looking for an argument for the sake of it.... dont even bother. You are struggling with this aren't you, the top eight are not seeded anymore than the top eight in the old Inter Continental Final were seeded. It seems to have escaped your attention but the top eight qualify by being in the top eight. A place earned, not given. Then we have the three who qualify via the challenge so now we are up to 11 that have legitimately qualified. 1 place is kept open for a wild card position with the other 4, yes only 4, being seeded riders. Ever heard the saying, "sometimes it is better to say nothing and have people think you a fool than say something and confirm it". very apt is it not? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humphrey Appleby 13,960 Posted September 17, 2009 It seems to have escaped your attention but the top eight qualify by being in the top eight. A place earned, not given. However one calls it, getting into the GP by virtue of finishing in the top 8 is still a form of seeding, as is the local wildcard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,992 Posted September 17, 2009 However one calls it, getting into the GP by virtue of finishing in the top 8 is still a form of seeding, as is the local wildcard. Or qualifying......by managing to get through the qualifying process.Whether that be this year or next,they have qualified by the rules set out in advance.You call it tamata i call it tomata....or something Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blazeaway 1,501 Posted September 17, 2009 Or qualifying......by managing to get through the qualifying process.Whether that be this year or next,they have qualified by the rules set out in advance.You call it tamata i call it tomata....or something Agree completely, it's like we're related or summat!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barrow boy 119 Posted September 19, 2009 My daughter who is only a casual fan having been brought up in a speedway family wants to know why the GP challenge final is raced before this season's top 8 are known because if either or all of Harris, Lindgren, Bjerre & Walasek had finished in the top 3 as well as in this season's top 8 other riders who did not figure in the GP Challenge final would have had the chance to race off. She appreciates that riders finishing lower than 3rd would qualify but she still thinks it unfair not to wait in case it is possible for other riders to get their chance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pollyanna 1 Posted September 23, 2009 I believe the reason that the tracks are so slick for the GPs is Ole Olsen's input. He has stated that "Slick tracks make for better racing". In fact, slick tracks mean that there is NO Speedway racing as we know it - only Speedway riding! As a previous poster stated, Leszno and Bydgoszcz consistently produce fantastic racing surfaces for League meetings - why are they so different for the GPs? The answer has to be, again, Ole Olsen's input into their preparation. Almost every rider says that the track surface on which they practise, is totally different to that on the day of the meeting. Why is this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
racers and royals 8,732 Posted September 23, 2009 I believe the reason that the tracks are so slick for the GPs is Ole Olsen's input. He has stated that "Slick tracks make for better racing". In fact, slick tracks mean that there is NO Speedway racing as we know it - only Speedway riding! As a previous poster stated, Leszno and Bydgoszcz consistently produce fantastic racing surfaces for League meetings - why are they so different for the GPs? The answer has to be, again, Ole Olsen's input into their preparation. Almost every rider says that the track surface on which they practise, is totally different to that on the day of the meeting. Why is this? He also thinks slick tracks make safer racing.I also think that the hammering the track gets during practice has a lot to do with the track on race day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The H Man 252 Posted September 23, 2009 I also think that the hammering the track gets during practice has a lot to do with the track on race day. Great observation Racers and Royals, lets hope Ole reads this forum and takes on board your comments. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted September 23, 2009 Wonder when Derek will be back cap in hand to apologise for stating none of this ever happened!!!!!!! Unlike a large number of people on this Forum I always accept when I'm wrong (which is often enuff!! ). I didn't know about the direct seeding of the likes of Craven and Mirac in the '60s for example - before my time!!! I was thinking of what were to me the glory days of the WF from say, '72 through to the early '80s and there was no 'seeding' or fast-tracking then. To cite the Polish situation is a bit of a red herring. When England was hosting the WF we had five (or was it four..) places and these were decided at the British Final.. The Poles on occasion (and one was '73) choose to select their finalists...: you can call this 'seeding' if you won't but I wouldn't personally... Just a different method of 'selecting' the host county's allocation of riders.. The fact is that if you were World Champ or in the top three or four in the world you still had to qualify in the year concerned to get back to defend your title.. This made for fantastically exciting meetings across the board and was a real proof of a rider's mettle where it REALLY counts, in the white hot atmosphere of individual meetings. Look at that clip of Olsen racing like a man possessed in his first ride in the '72 Final...: tell me you'd ever see an equivalent effort (albeit ending in failure...) in a current GP.... Or qualifying......by managing to get through the qualifying process.Whether that be this year or next,they have qualified by the rules set out in advance.You call it tamata i call it tomata....or something ) This is also an enormous red herring... What you're saying is that Greg Hancock qualified through a qualifying process in 1994/'95 and because he's stayed in the top eight since he is there as a qualifier... But each year to finish in the top eight involves finishing ahead of a maximum effectively of just seven other riders... IF he'd had to qualify every year for a WF with several rounds he'd have had to have taken on, at an estimate, something in the region of 59 riders (say) in five ride, 20 heat meetings to get there. There's no doubt (1) that Greg remains in the top 8 - probably four - in the world and deserves his place; but (2) that it is nevertheless one heck of a lot easier for a rider of his class to stay in the GPs than it is for any younger pretenders to get in.. Look at the average age of those contesting GP Finals this year and even with Emil lowering it, it's still far higher than the average would've been in the old WF system... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wotnoaj 0 Posted September 23, 2009 Tracks should be prepared by the usual curator for that track, it's a bit of an insult to the curator that someone should come in and take over their track anyway. Practice the day before should be scrapped, it serves no purpose as the track is always completely different on race day anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mickthemuppet 976 Posted September 23, 2009 Say you are an up and coming Speedway rider and want to get in the GP's is there an openng to qualify or are the riders selected. Say for instance Chris Schramm of King's Lynn. Does he have the option to get in the GP's or is it a closed shop. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wotnoaj 0 Posted September 23, 2009 Say you are an up and coming Speedway rider and want to get in the GP's is there an openng to qualify or are the riders selected. Say for instance Chris Schramm of King's Lynn. Does he have the option to get in the GP's or is it a closed shop. To be honest mick, I don't know the answer to your question but I'm sure if Chris Schramm applied to be in the GP's they would not only shut the shop but barracade it aswell!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeff... 0 Posted September 23, 2009 Say you are an up and coming Speedway rider and want to get in the GP's is there an openng to qualify or are the riders selected. Say for instance Chris Schramm of King's Lynn. Does he have the option to get in the GP's or is it a closed shop. Next years series will likely contain 20 year old Emil Sayfutinov, 19? year old Tai Woffinden and 22 year old Freddie Lindgren. Hardly indicative of the old boys club that some would have you believe is it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humphrey Appleby 13,960 Posted September 23, 2009 Next years series will likely contain 20 year old Emil Sayfutinov, 19? year old Tai Woffinden and 22 year old Freddie Lindgren. Hardly indicative of the old boys club that some would have you believe is it Yes, but places should all be decided on track, one way or another. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
