Next Issue Of Classic Speedway - Oct 2011

[mickthemuppet 976]

No, I give up, mick.

 

Where did I say that Johnnie Hoskins didn't open Odsal?

Very naughty Norbold. You deleted the part of your posting after the .......saying .Ian Hoskins says his father opened Odsal Speedway. That just about sums it all up. I rest my case

How would I know what was said in the article as I have not even seen the story yet.

[norbold 7,112]

Actually, mick, I deleted it because I misread what Ian had written. He said opening Odsal was "a supreme achievement" for his father. I misread it as "the supreme achievement". My comment was not meant to imply that he didn't open Odsal but that if he considered opening Odsal to be THE supreme achievement he couldn't really think that the invention of speedway was down to his father as surely that would be THE supreme achievement. However, I realised I had made a mistake and deleted it.

[olddon 7]

Actually, mick, I deleted it because I misread what Ian had written. He said opening Odsal was "a supreme achievement" for his father. I misread it as "the supreme achievement". My comment was not meant to imply that he didn't open Odsal but that if he considered opening Odsal to be THE supreme achievement he couldn't really think that the invention of speedway was down to his father as surely that would be THE supreme achievement. However, I realised I had made a mistake and deleted it.

 

Gosh! What a man you are. Rewriting wikipedia, now deleting your Posts to leave the overall reading of the thread on here in confusion. Anyone else who made a mistake would probably have quoted themselves then explained the error IMO.

I can't comment on Ian Hoskins article because I don't have 'Classic Speedway' mailed to me, and it seems the first Post to this thread by Ian Hoskins via BFD has not been met anyway so there's not much to read about 'the start of speedway under JSH promotion at Maitland in December 1923'.

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

[norbold 7,112]

Gosh! What a man you are. Rewriting wikipedia, now deleting your Posts to leave the overall reading of the thread on here in confusion.

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

Absolute utter confusion, Jack. The whole thing has now been rendered impossible to follow. I'd be surprised if anyone could now possibly follow anything that's been written on here by my deletion. It was the crux of the whole discussion.

[Grand Central 2,654]

Actually, mick, I deleted it because I misread what Ian had written. He said opening Odsal was "a supreme achievement" for his father. I misread it as "the supreme achievement". My comment was not meant to imply that he didn't open Odsal but that if he considered opening Odsal to be THE supreme achievement he couldn't really think that the invention of speedway was down to his father as surely that would be THE supreme achievement. However, I realised I had made a mistake and deleted it.

 

Funnily enough I had made that very same mistake as I read that particular paragraph. For some reason 'THE supreme achievement' tripped off the page better than the 'A supreme achievement', as written. A semantic distinction, perhaps. But vital to understanding the paragraph correctly.

 

The most interesting thing about the piece is just the lack of anything new at all that Mr Hoskins adds.

And actually he is to be commended for that. He does not make any out landish unsubstantiated claims for his father (except for the bit about 'led to High Beech' perhaps). He thankfully makes no claims or defences along the lines used by Jack or Dave. I am sure he is not foolish enough to honour his father's memory with statements that cannot be shown to be true.

 

Just another interesting semantic (twice in one post) from the Ian Hoskins piece is that he mentions the word speedway with reference to the sport as it was to become but he actually only refers to 'motor bike rcaing' at West Maitland in '23. Significant, I think.

 

And like (I think) everone else on this forum can I just put on record that I believe that Johnnie Hoskins was a truly great man and who did as much, if not more, for Speedway as any other in it's history.

 

But the search for a more fuller understanding of the true origins of the sport must be allowed to continue using proper resaerch that others are doing so diligently. Keep up the good work.

 

Just thank god Mr Hoskins has not found wikipedia, or if he has at least he must understand how it works far better than some on this forum.

Edited October 28, 2011 by Grand Central

[BigFatDave 258]

Actually it's quite an anti-climax. It doesn't say what BFD says in the post that started this thread off.

So it's not an article by Ian Hoskins?

[Grand Central 2,654]

So it's not an article by Ian Hoskins?

 

It is an article by Ian Hoskins to which he refers to the ongoing debate about his father but adds only a couple of very short paragraphs of his own comment on the 1923 question. There is no new information divulged.

 

The quote from Mr Hoskins that you gave at the beginning of this thread seemed to promise much more.

 

Thankfully, Mr Hoskins deals with whole matter in a rather relaxed manner and does not make any assertions about his father inventing speedway at all. He prefers to look upon Johnnie's role as the man who provided continuity with the pioneering days and on to the world wide spread of the sport.

 

This may or may not lead to an entirely different debate!

Edited October 28, 2011 by Grand Central

[norbold 7,112]

I've just received a copy of the latest issue of Classic Speedway. Did you know there is an article in there by Ian Hoskins about his father, Johnnie. It makes very interesting reading.....

 

 

So it's not an article by Ian Hoskins?

 

?

[Grand Central 2,654]

?

 

Perhaps it is best to leave Jack and Dave out of the debate for the moment until they have had the opportunity of reading Ian Hoskins article.

 

For those that have had the chance of the reading it ... don't you find it rather surprising that Ian Hoskins didn't jump to defend the creationalist argument for his father as others have done on this thread.

 

Instead, he seems to have taken the position of trying to carve out a new, rather more esoteric, place for Johnnie where he was a facilitator moving speedway from it's rather vague indeteriminate origins to the more certain european narrative with with we are all familiar.

 

This is a rather new perception of Johnnie's role, is it not?

[BigFatDave 258]

?

Maybe you should revisit my post and see what I actually commented on, rather than going down the red herring route once again, then you wouldn't be surprised at all.

[norbold 7,112]

You commented on my post that said, "Actually it's quite an anti-climax. It doesn't say what BFD says in the post that started this thread off."

 

What do you think the "it's" in the first sentence and the "It" in the second sentence refer to given that I had already said, "I've just received a copy of the latest issue of Classic Speedway. Did you know there is an article in there by Ian Hoskins about his father, Johnnie. It makes very interesting reading....."?

[kennylane 3]

This has been a great debate but at the end of the day nothing has been proved or disproved.

[Nigel 38]

Hi a good evening to one and all

 

David you still have this fixation about Red herrings arnt you supposed to see pink elephants

 

As it seems to be the fashion to quote mags books etc, may I quote the following?

 

I have just dug out my copy of Tom Stenners book "Thrilling the Million"

(The American version) so not sure of the original publication date. but this one is 1947.

 

Tom was Speedway editor of the Daily Mail.

 

And I quote verbatim:-

"How it all Started"

 

There is a widespread Impression that Speedway originated in Australia, and if this is not altogether a fallacy it is certainly an exaggeration of the truth. Long before the sport was introduced to the Commonwealth there was motorcycle racing on Dirt and Board tracks in the United states..............

 

(Further on, Tom writes)

It was Australia, however, who gave us speedway racing as we know it today. No one Individual was responsible, It was more or less a combination of circumstances that indicated the possibilities of a new sport. -:end quote)

 

Tom Stenner refers to JH as an outstanding 'personality' in the sport not promoter.

 

I note in Cyril Mays' Book Ride it' The complete book of speedway, he gives no credence to JH and talks of Maldwyn Jones and the American Dirt Tracks. I quote:- The general belief that speedway racing originated in Australia is certainly a fallacy. -:end quote

 

For futher reading I suggest "The Speedway Star" 13th March 2010 page 26. Enjoy

[Nigel 38]

Awwww, that'll put an end to all the efforts of the amateur historians' brigade - that means we'll hear no more red herrings - not metaphors, Nigel, (it HAD to be a 'Nigel') - about the Duke of Denbigh and Evolutionists v Creationists, etc, and the discussion can get back to where it started, about what Johnnie Hoskins actually, and provably, DID. He organised a rough-and-ready bunch of rural rogues and roustabouts and started promoting professional motorcycle racing meetings on a regular basis; the result of which is today what we know as SPEEDWAY.

As I said in my first post, something which so many seem to have conveniently ignored in order to unload their vitriol and put their own slanted, jaundiced, condescending viewpoint across; Johnnie Hoskins is the Godfather of SPEEDWAY.

 

You miserable old git

[Nigel 38]

BFD

 

Will you please tell me what JH did and how you are going to prove it ?

 

do you have his CV ?

Edited October 30, 2011 by Nigel