racers and royals 8,783 Posted January 26, 2013 When a doublingup rider is not available then you can book a guest that has a lower PL average of the rider that is missing. So when Ricky Wells is out, Wolves can only use a guest that has a PL average lower than the 6.49 that Ricky currently holds. Where did I get it from ? CVS and Peter Adams ..................... and there was a few hundred to confirm that You know the rule so why ask in post 653 if R/R can be used ? the replacement for a D/U rider is a PL guest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superguest 194 Posted January 26, 2013 (edited) I was optimistic but now we know we will run about 2 away meetings with our 1-7 - can't see the team gelling. Hope I'm wrong. Edited January 26, 2013 by superguest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bagpuss 10,846 Posted January 26, 2013 You'd have thought that the PL average will be used for a guest for a double upper unless the guest has an EL average of his own? If you see what I mean Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T.N.T. 355 Posted January 26, 2013 You know the rule so why ask in post 653 if R/R can be used ? the replacement for a D/U rider is a PL guest. I think you misunderstand abit about what I am asking. Lets use Ricky Wells as an example ..... He gets injured onthe night before the Good Friday meeting at Belle Vue at 11am. .... Wolves have no time to get in a guest and most teams are riding that day any way. Can Wolves use R/R for Wells using his 5.79 EL average ? ..... or .......... do Wolves have to ride with 6 riders and put Wells at reserve due to his low PL average, meaning the other reserve gets 7 rides ? You'd have thought that the PL average will be used for a guest for a double upper unless the guest has an EL average of his own?If you see what I mean Understand totally what you mean but the way CVS and Pete Adams explained it is the way i have posted it. Which means for example Wolves could have Corey Gathercote riding at #4 instead of Ricky Wells ....... while they can in the same meeting have Adam Roynon at reserve replacing Sam Masters ven though Roynon holds 5.13 EL average compared to Gathercote's sub four point average. Crazy I know but that sems to be the way it's operating !! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leicester Hunter 381 Posted January 27, 2013 I think you misunderstand abit about what I am asking. Lets use Ricky Wells as an example ..... He gets injured onthe night before the Good Friday meeting at Belle Vue at 11am. .... Wolves have no time to get in a guest and most teams are riding that day any way. Can Wolves use R/R for Wells using his 5.79 EL average ? ..... or .......... do Wolves have to ride with 6 riders and put Wells at reserve due to his low PL average, meaning the other reserve gets 7 rides ? Understand totally what you mean but the way CVS and Pete Adams explained it is the way i have posted it. Which means for example Wolves could have Corey Gathercote riding at #4 instead of Ricky Wells ....... while they can in the same meeting have Adam Roynon at reserve replacing Sam Masters ven though Roynon holds 5.13 EL average compared to Gathercote's sub four point average. Crazy I know but that sems to be the way it's operating !! Err...yes, I see what you mean, and that's the way I understand it. However -- using the scenario you have highlighted above, surely the Elite League averages kick in at that point and Roynon is in the top 5 and Gathercole is at reserve. Or something like that. Another 'rule' that hasn't been properly thought through and will be quite contentious as the season goes on. I can see a quite a few pre-match protests about the make-up of teams in the forthcoming season...... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
racers and royals 8,783 Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) I think you misunderstand abit about what I am asking. Lets use Ricky Wells as an example ..... He gets injured onthe night before the Good Friday meeting at Belle Vue at 11am. .... Wolves have no time to get in a guest and most teams are riding that day any way. Can Wolves use R/R for Wells using his 5.79 EL average ? ..... or .......... do Wolves have to ride with 6 riders and put Wells at reserve due to his low PL average, meaning the other reserve gets 7 rides ? Understand totally what you mean but the way CVS and Pete Adams explained it is the way i have posted it. Which means for example Wolves could have Corey Gathercote riding at #4 instead of Ricky Wells ....... while they can in the same meeting have Adam Roynon at reserve replacing Sam Masters ven though Roynon holds 5.13 EL average compared to Gathercote's sub four point average. Crazy I know but that sems to be the way it's operating !! Wells is classified as a D/u ONLY facility is a PL guest-if they can`t get one for whatever reason then they would have to use a NL guest. This is only my opinion but i would imagine that PL averages would be used in determining the pl guest and he would slot into the position that the D/u was going to ride. Edited January 27, 2013 by racers and royals Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brewer 159 Posted January 27, 2013 can the pl guest be a rider that is already in a declared el team or just ride pl ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
racers and royals 8,783 Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) can the pl guest be a rider that is already in a declared el team or just ride pl ? Yes he can be a D/U of another team i believe. Edited January 27, 2013 by racers and royals Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T.N.T. 355 Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) can the pl guest be a rider that is already in a declared el team or just ride pl ? ANY Premier League rider can be used as a guest as long as they have a PL average below the rider they are replacing. ..... So Ricky Wells (5.79 - 6.49) can guest for Adam Roynon (5.13 - 7.03) as he has a lower PL average than Adam ..... but Adam CANT gues for Ricky even though Wells has an EL average 0.66 higher than Roynon. Err...yes, I see what you mean, and that's the way I understand it. However -- using the scenario you have highlighted above, surely the Elite League averages kick in at that point and Roynon is in the top 5 and Gathercole is at reserve. I can see a quite a few pre-match protests about the make-up of teams in the forthcoming season...... The guest takes the place of the missing rider ...... so a team could have a rider at reserve with ahigher EL average than some in the main body ...... just because they have a lower PL average !!! ..... So Gathercote would be in the main body and Roynon still at reserve in the EXAMPLE used above. But what happens if NO guest has been booked as its a last minute thing ? ..... arider has been injured before tapes up before !! Quite agree it is going to be weird as one team could be up against a team with acombined average way over the 42.50 limit from day one if certain PL guests are used. Strange ..... but that looks to be afew loopholes that will occur this season. Edited January 27, 2013 by T.N.T. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leicester Hunter 381 Posted January 27, 2013 ANY Premier League rider can be used as a guest as long as they have a PL average below the rider they are replacing. ..... So Ricky Wells (5.79 - 6.49) can guest for Adam Roynon (5.13 - 7.03) as he has a lower PL average than Adam ..... but Adam CANT gues for Ricky even though Wells has an EL average 0.66 higher than Roynon. The guest takes the place of the missing rider ...... so a team could have a rider at reserve with ahigher EL average than some in the main body ...... just because they have a lower PL average !!! ..... So Gathercote would be in the main body and Roynon still at reserve in the EXAMPLE used above. But what happens if NO guest has been booked as its a last minute thing ? ..... arider has been injured before tapes up before !! Quite agree it is going to be weird as one team could be up against a team with acombined average way over the 42.50 limit from day one if certain PL guests are used. Strange ..... but that looks to be afew loopholes that will occur this season. A few? In that case, I can see quite a number of results as well as line ups being protested. Just when you thought the BSPA couldn't possibly make it any more difficult.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 15 Posted January 27, 2013 Why not just use riders EL averages. No loopholes and bull$hit then. As it stands, everyone is going to want Ricky Wells to guest as he has a low PL average! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T.N.T. 355 Posted January 27, 2013 Here is a tricky one then COVENTRY (for example only) go into a meeting without Zengota (injured) and Roynon (doubling up) They have to use R/R for Zengota They book Ricky Wells as a guest for Roynon R/R will give Scott Nicholls an extra ride and also Ricky Wells, Aaron Summers and a reserve ....... even though Ricky has a higher EL average than Zengota !!! :blink: Why not just use riders EL averages. No loopholes and bull$hit then. As it stands, everyone is going to want Ricky Wells to guest as he has a low PL average! I think its because you are only talking about riders that ALL have a PL average ..... they dont all have an EL average Weird thing is ..... should Doyle and Barker miss a meeting for Birmingham ..... Who will they use as guests ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leicester Hunter 381 Posted January 27, 2013 Weird thing is ..... should Doyle and Barker miss a meeting for Birmingham ..... Who will they use as guests ? Just about anyone in the Premier League, if they're available. If both Doyle and Barker maintain their PL form, it's looking pretty good. Currently JD's average is 9.17 and BB 9.83. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 15 Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) I think its because you are only talking about riders that ALL have a PL average ..... they dont all have an EL average Of course they have an EL average. Or have they signed for their EL teams on 0? If they don't have an EL average then you use a conversion but it's stupid to use a PL average if the rider has an EL average. Or if you mean an average that has come form EL meetings, that fine but I assume that means Ricky Kling cannot guest as he doesn't have an average attained in the PL. And how do you replace Proctor? He doesn't have a PL average yet. Or Stead. Massive flaw in that theory. Edited January 27, 2013 by SCB Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T.N.T. 355 Posted January 28, 2013 Or if you mean an average that has come form EL meetings, that fine but I assume that means Ricky Kling cannot guest as he doesn't have an average attained in the PL.And how do you replace Proctor? He doesn't have a PL average yet. Or Stead. Massive flaw in that theory. Proctor, Stead, Kling etc will be riding in he Premier League so can therefore be used as a guest. Yes they will be on assessed averages but the fact is they are in the PL. Why they cant use EL averages ? ........ As I say, Ricky Wells or Adam Roynon have PL averages .... in an EL match any replacement would also have a PL average and if you included just EL averages, while some could have converted assessed averages, they would never really get a new EL average Let's get one thing straight ...... I don't agree with it and think the doubling up rule has too many loopholes in it and quite frankly would rather see the same 1-7 every week ....... but those days are fast disappearing ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
