Dudley

[bruno 1,798]

got to be pl for me,i enjoyed the results last year but not the racing.i feel 14 pound pl will keep fans going but 10 pound nl might keep some away

[TividaleHeathen 11]

Defo PL for me aswell, although i have a slight feeling we may have another season in the NL before making the step up!!

 

Whatever happens a decision needs to be made ASAP as other teams in both PL & NL have already started to put plans and riders in place!!

[21st century heathen 220]

SCB - Rarely do you say/type anything without a subtext rant or throwing an all-out in-your-face strop so I'll take that positive post mate.

 

bruno - Not the first comment along those lines that I've seen. I actually thought that for the most part that racing was good value for money despite the score. It's rare that our boys (Royno and perhaps James apart) made consistently good starts so it made for some great action. I've dull as dishwater 45-45 meetings. Give me entertaining racing whatever the score every time.

 

TH - I suspect a decision has already been made, despite what may have been stated publicly, but in any case we will get our answer after the AGM this coming weekend so you won't have long to wait. With regard to team building we're mostly at the mercy of other clubs making riders available to us, whether it be the rider requesting a move or the club not wanting/needing/being able to fit a rider in for the coming season.

[greyhoundp 990]

My viewpoint is this, I am IN favour of PL racing but and this is the problem, most of the PL Teams have this season lost money, and i would hazard a guess, almost all the Teams who pay Stadium rentals have lost money, and possibly even some of those who have there own stadia. What several people have said, is Yes they would pay £14 as opposed to £10 to see a higher class of racing which in itself is fair enough, but the point being missed is The MAJORITY of PL Teams have lost money this year, Glasgow Champions in 2011 lost money that season, Edinburgh Champions in 2010 lost money that year, so being succesful is no guarantee in itself of financial stability. So i am NOT prepared to see us lose what we have currently, and for 2013 The Heathens should go all out to attempt to find there own Track, even if it means a standing still or as is very likely step back on Track.Now 2014 is a different matter altogether, should the efforts to find our own home continue to be unproductive, then basically we have to go S***e or bust, go PL and see what it brings with it, because by then we will be up to the 5 year plan, if we continue to be viable then great, if we fail, then we fail, but at least we will have tried.

 

At least two things need to be looked at during the AGM; 1, The riders pay structure, points money has to go out of the window to be replaced with a salary dependant on there average, with a Bonus if they get to Play offs, this way Promoters can budget for the whole season, and not get Hit by massive Points money payments due to there success, what other Sport brings with it financial losses due to success.

 

Travel costs have massively hit everyone, riders and spectators alike, regionalisation can help, but how do you cut Travel costs for someone like Ben Barker who lives in Cornwall ?. This is where Promoters have to balance things out, and weigh up if that particular rider is worth it, can i afford him ?. So its not just about helping foreign riders with Airfares, but when signing riders what are the additional unforseen costs likely to be? again i think the answer HAS to be, offer Rider X a pay package which includes X amount per meeting for riding, and an additional payment for Travel, this to include a fixed Hardship payment if it is rained off, Put simply the rider either accepts the terms on offer or says no thank you. Something along these lines needs to be brought in.

 

Then there is the bigger issue of TV money, if the EL which i doubt, is prepared to share out the Pot of money further then this would help, and definately GO Speed needs to be given the brush off. Put simply what has Go Speed got wiithout Speedway, Go Speeds needs are greater than Speedways need, Speedway can do without Go Speed, Go Speed cant do without Speedway.

 

Breakaway time ? it most certainly could be, will it happen ? I very much doubt it.

Edited November 13, 2012 by greyhoundp

[waco 1,026]

While not knowing the ratio of elite league fans that also support the heathens at Monmore,,going Premier with extra addmission costs,, may reduce the numbers who can at the moment afford to support both teams? I dont know the facts but is it worth risking the tremendous support the Heathens presently have ?

Edited November 14, 2012 by waco

[greyhoundp 990]

While not knowing the ratio of elite league fans that also support the heathens at Monmore,,going Premier with extra addmission costs,, may reduce the numbers who can at the moment afford to support both teams? I dont know the facts but is it worth risking the tremendous support the Heathens presently have ?

 

Waco, whilst we have a tremendous fan base, no other word to describe it, I think in the present climate its just a little to risky financially, but once every option has been explored for our own Track, then we HAVE to try it..ie 1 more year, 1 more year.

 

That would probably be best for the promotion to choose, and whilst it wasnt raised at The Fans forum, i do believe another raceday, would be far more supporter friendly, ie Friday nights, or anytime on Sundays, especially for away supporters who want to Travel.

 

With regards 21st saying we dont have our own assets, except TP, then we need to take that step back perhaps, bring in riders like Nathan Greaves, Brady Kurtz, Jack Wozniak, Bradley Andrews, a certain Robert Lambert, and i think there was a young New Zealander Barratt who seemed useful, yes i know they arent all elegible to ride NL, but they are out there, and we need to decide pretty quick, before they are all snapped up, but i have NO reason to believe our management arent on the ball with regards this, but as Malcolm Vasey has posted, there needs to be an NL meeting as a matter of urgency to finalise details, before any signings can be made.

Edited November 14, 2012 by greyhoundp

[guestie8 3]

While not knowing the ratio of elite league fans that also support the heathens at Monmore,,going Premier with extra addmission costs,, may reduce the numbers who can at the moment afford to support both teams? I dont know the facts but is it worth risking the tremendous support the Heathens presently have ?

 

 

My thoughts exactly......

Why risk what you have already which is great team with great support.

Also IMHO i think the Cradley name should be saved for the re-launch at any new track - not used at Monmore Green

Edited November 14, 2012 by guestie8

[heathhen1 22]

My thoughts exactly......

Why risk what you have already which is great team with great support.

Also IMHO i think the Cradley name should be saved for the re-launch at any new track - not used at Monmore Green

i personally think the cradley name has been thrown out to appease the fans for not going prem i think dudley is the name we should stick with till we are if ever getting our own track

[Mike.Butler 601]

definitely keep name Cradley as a carrot..

Edited November 15, 2012 by Mike.Butler

[21st century heathen 220]

The MAJORITY of PL Teams have lost money this year

 

...offer Rider X a pay package which includes X amount per meeting for riding, and an additional payment for Travel

 

Then there is the bigger issue of TV money, if the EL which i doubt, is prepared to share out the Pot of money...

 

The majority of teams lose money every year. Should any move up the ladder be postponed indefinitely?

 

I wish my employer paid me to turn up to work! I can understand it at NL level as the riders don't really earn anything so a bit of help with travel costs is no 'biggy'. Once a rider is riding PL/EL he's a professional sportsman and should be able to factor in his travel costs to and from work.

 

Why should the EL clubs share the money received? They are providing the product that is being sold. What could be argued is whether enough of the money reaches the clubs in the first place and then what should be done with it. In an ideal world EL would be getting more money and all of them would be running a NL team to help find and develop future talent.

 

While not knowing the ratio of elite league fans that also support the heathens at Monmore,,going Premier with extra addmission costs,, may reduce the numbers who can at the moment afford to support both teams? I dont know the facts but is it worth risking the tremendous support the Heathens presently have ?

 

Forgive me if I misunderstand but I think you are suggesting that significant number of Heathens supporters are Wolves fans that attend EL on a Monday and then NL on a Tuesday. You seem to suggest that those fans could not, or may not to be more precise, afford EL admission one day and PL admission the next. If I have that right I think you've got completely the wrong end of the stick. Whilst there will always be a few floating voters here in the Midlands with so many clubs so close together each and every club can support itself with its own fan base. I sometimes see some Wolves and the occasional Stoke, B'ham or Cov jacket but I'm probably talking about 20 at the most out of around 1,000.

 

Likewise, the huge majority (probably 99%) of Heathens fans don't regularly go to other club meetings to support other clubs. The fans have 'voted' overwhelmingly that they would like to go PL and would be happy to pay £14 for that standard of racing. If the club choose not to take that on board then that's up to them but I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of disgruntled fans and a backlash of sorts.

 

That would probably be best for the promotion to choose, and whilst it wasnt raised at The Fans forum, i do believe another raceday, would be far more supporter friendly, ie Friday nights, or anytime on Sundays, especially for away supporters who want to Travel.

 

With regards 21st saying we dont have our own assets, except TP, then we need to take that step back perhaps, bring in riders like Nathan Greaves, Brady Kurtz, Jack Wozniak, Bradley Andrews, a certain Robert Lambert, and i think there was a young New Zealander Barratt who seemed useful, yes i know they arent all elegible to ride NL, but they are out there, and we need to decide pretty quick, before they are all snapped up, but i have NO reason to believe our management arent on the ball with regards this, but as Malcolm Vasey has posted, there needs to be an NL meeting as a matter of urgency to finalise details, before any signings can be made.

 

Whatever you do don't build a business model based on away support in speedway. There aren't many away fans these days. The only time I'd consider giving it some real in depth consideration would be if and when we go EL and are racing alongside Wolves, B'ham, Cov and Lei(?). The five clubs should then work closely to make sure they maximise their potential with so many clubs so close. Something along the lines of half price for anyone producing a season ticket from the away club (and do it for every meeting not just the meeting against that club). That would tempt people to make the short journey as their travel is effectively paid for. But at the moment would a significant number more travel from Plymouth or Rye on a Friday evening than on a Tuesday evening?

 

I can't remember if it was a thread here on perhaps on FB that I posted something about the talented youngster, some of whom you mention. The problem we've got is that we've got no way of getting our claws in to them. Greaves will most likely be at Cov. Although I suggested a year NL to learn the track would do Lambert no harm I don't think for one minute it will actually happen. I suspect he'll do PL and DU with an EL club when he comes over at 16. Even if he came over at 15 he would most likely end up at a club like Scunny that can offer him the track to practice on as often as he likes. He'd then have a route in to the PL with them too. We might have a shot with Andrews but for most of the 13, 14 and 15 year old riders out there it would be a similar story of going where they can get track time and perhaps a clear route in to the PL.

 

Also IMHO i think the Cradley name should be saved for the re-launch at any new track - not used at Monmore Green

 

I can see why so many want to change and the attitude that Dudley Council have done nothing for us so why carry the name. I would like to change to Cradley Heath 'Heathens' but I can see the reasons for sticking with the other name for the time being. Perhaps things are moving along behind the scenes?

[cityrebel 2,960]

speaking as a neutral i think the heathens should keep the dudley name. cradley were a team that closed in 1995 and should remain that way until a new home track is found. like boston and hackney in the past, i'm just not in favour of defunct clubs running in the league. this is just my opinion and no offence intended!

[greyhoundp 990]

The majority of teams lose money every year. Should any move up the ladder be postponed indefinitely?

 

If thats the case then why should we ride in the PL, and i didnt say indefinately, i said for 1 more year, and during 2013 we should make an all out effort to find our own Track then if this fails again we should go PL in 2014, and sink or swim, and if its sink, then at least we have tried.

I wish my employer paid me to turn up to work! I can understand it at NL level as the riders don't really earn anything so a bit of help with travel costs is no 'biggy'. Once a rider is riding PL/EL he's a professional sportsman and should be able to factor in his travel costs to and from work.

Its not the travel costs as such, what i said was salaries or in the case of a rained off meeting, a Hardship payment which would help said rider.

 

Why should the EL clubs share the money received? They are providing the product that is being sold. What could be argued is whether enough of the money reaches the clubs in the first place and then what should be done with it. In an ideal world EL would be getting more money and all of them would be running a NL team to help find and develop future talent.

If the EL Teams cant/wont share down the TV monies, then except for racing rules, and being under the BSPA the EL and PL are seperate entities. So therefore it would benefit PL teams to have there own body, and try to negotiate a TV deal of there own which fairly represents the PL.

 

Forgive me if I misunderstand but I think you are suggesting that significant number of Heathens supporters are Wolves fans that attend EL on a Monday and then NL on a Tuesday. You seem to suggest that those fans could not, or may not to be more precise, afford EL admission one day and PL admission the next. If I have that right I think you've got completely the wrong end of the stick. Whilst there will always be a few floating voters here in the Midlands with so many clubs so close together each and every club can support itself with its own fan base. I sometimes see some Wolves and the occasional Stoke, B'ham or Cov jacket but I'm probably talking about 20 at the most out of around 1,000.

 

Likewise, the huge majority (probably 99%) of Heathens fans don't regularly go to other club meetings to support other clubs. The fans have 'voted' overwhelmingly that they would like to go PL and would be happy to pay £14 for that standard of racing. If the club choose not to take that on board then that's up to them but I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of disgruntled fans and a backlash of sorts.

 

 

 

Whatever you do don't build a business model based on away support in speedway. There aren't many away fans these days. The only time I'd consider giving it some real in depth consideration would be if and when we go EL and are racing alongside Wolves, B'ham, Cov and Lei(?). The five clubs should then work closely to make sure they maximise their potential with so many clubs so close. Something along the lines of half price for anyone producing a season ticket from the away club (and do it for every meeting not just the meeting against that club). That would tempt people to make the short journey as their travel is effectively paid for. But at the moment would a significant number more travel from Plymouth or Rye on a Friday evening than on a Tuesday evening?

I take your point about business models, what i suggested and its purely my own viewpoint was, Friday or Sunday racedays, yes it does help Travelling supporters, but in addition Friday no school next day, and pay has just gone in the Bank, Sunday, The majority still have Sunday off, kids are at home, Travelling around is generally easier. People still prefer to do most things on a weekend. Why do so few Teams ride on a Tuesday 21st ? because it aint a popular going out night for numerous reasons.

 

I can't remember if it was a thread here on perhaps on FB that I posted something about the talented youngster, some of whom you mention. The problem we've got is that we've got no way of getting our claws in to them. Greaves will most likely be at Cov. Although I suggested a year NL to learn the track would do Lambert no harm I don't think for one minute it will actually happen. I suspect he'll do PL and DU with an EL club when he comes over at 16. Even if he came over at 15 he would most likely end up at a club like Scunny that can offer him the track to practice on as often as he likes. He'd then have a route in to the PL with them too. We might have a shot with Andrews but for most of the 13, 14 and 15 year old riders out there it would be a similar story of going where they can get track time and perhaps a clear route in to the PL.

 

 

 

I can see why so many want to change and the attitude that Dudley Council have done nothing for us so why carry the name. I would like to change to Cradley Heath 'Heathens' but I can see the reasons for sticking with the other name for the time being. Perhaps things are moving along behind the scenes?

 

Cant do the individual quote thingy, so my replies are in the quotes somewhere.

Edited November 15, 2012 by greyhoundp

[mac101 1,214]

Nigel Pearson ‏@nigelpearson

One for #speedway fans - I can confirm Dudley Heathens will stay National League for 2013 and we will review the situation in 12 months.

[Davebeagle 5]

Disappointing but expected.

 

I reckon there'll be fewer fans on the terraces next year, judging by Facebook comments already posted.

Seems the views of the faithful at the forum were considered and discarded.

 

Awaiting the full club statement tomorrow......

[martin_t 219]

 

Nigel Pearson ‏@nigelpearson

One for #speedway fans - I can confirm Dudley Heathens will stay National League for 2013 and we will review the situation in 12 months.

 

Boooooooo!!!!!