Scunthorpe Saints - Not Entering N L 2013 :(

[montie 1,273]

I am not going to comment about riders being tapped up, only to say everyone on here has a choice of where they want to work, is that correct ?. That being so, where is the difference in being a speedway rider ?. What i will also say is if the said rider whoever he may be, then decides he wants to ride elsewhere, then his previous club, is entitled to 1, a loan fee. or 2, a transfer fee. The discussion on here has been had before many times over, but there is such a thing as freedom of contract, Speedway riders are NO different, and were it to go to a court of law, there would only be one winner, Im sure we all remember the little known footballers case many years ago. Have i also read on here a riders contract for that season ends on a certain date ? if that is so, then any Team surely is allowed to speak to anyone whom they wish to speak with, perhaps Malcolm or Jayne can clarify a few of these points.

 

 

 

May be you should ask that self styled "Main Man" he seem to know it all..........or i do think now he has moved on to his next club the name "main" should be changed to something else!!!!!

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

On the first point - I'm not going to make a statement of fact on it as I don't have the facts. So please don't think I don't believe you - I just don't know. There are two aspects to it and I can see both sides of it. One side is that costs need to be controlled but paying out 'x' is not going to buy you the title. You have to win it on track. The other side is that if a club can afford to pay more to its riders then should it be allowed to. Ultimately we want riders to develop and improve. How often do people state young riders in other countries receive more sponsorship? If, for arguments sake, three NL clubs can afford to pay more then that's 21 Brits, mostly young riders making their way, being given a leg-up. I'm not sure I can settle on one side of the fence or the other as I really can see both sides of it.

 

 

I think that given the exceptional nature of the NL there is a case for wage control. Having said that, I fail to appreciate how it might be policed.

 

So 21ST how has Mr Greenwood put the record straight,,are you saying RG is a liar with his reply on the scunny forum??

 

I no for a fact that Scunny didnt pull out for financial reasons....you no why....a group was prepared to underwrite the loss of 2013 to allow the team to keep running.....but after a meeting or two it was deemed a waste of time as riders who we wanted to build the team around had been got at

 

I don't think he's a liar but he might have put 2 and 2 together and made 5. A rider comes and asks to be released from his team then a club approaches that team about a transfer looks highly suspicious to me, too. However, it isn't certain that that rider has been tapped up and, in Greenwood's case, that is not the case.

 

I am not going to comment about riders being tapped up, only to say everyone on here has a choice of where they want to work, is that correct ?. That being so, where is the difference in being a speedway rider ?. What i will also say is if the said rider whoever he may be, then decides he wants to ride elsewhere, then his previous club, is entitled to 1, a loan fee. or 2, a transfer fee. The discussion on here has been had before many times over, but there is such a thing as freedom of contract, Speedway riders are NO different, and were it to go to a court of law, there would only be one winner, Im sure we all remember the little known footballers case many years ago. Have i also read on here a riders contract for that season ends on a certain date ? if that is so, then any Team surely is allowed to speak to anyone whom they wish to speak with, perhaps Malcolm or Jayne can clarify a few of these points.

 

I as a wage earner do the best i am able to in these hard times, if i have a choice of doing my job for £10 per hour, or doing the same job for £12-50 per hour, then i would have to be foolish all things considered to reject the better paid job, bcuz thats what allows me to a better standard of living, or in a riders case, better standard of equipment, and possibly that all important 2nd bike. Im not trying to justify what happens, but trying to clarify does it happen within the rules ?, because if its the latter, then there is no justification for accusations that have been flying around.

 

I accept all that you are saying here and I suspect everyone else does (at least to a degree) but you have to go about it in the right manner.

 

At the end of the day, you can't force a rider to ride for a club when he wants to go elsewhere (or it would be foolish to do so) so I suspect he'd move anyway.

 

Its a pity you haven't condemned tapping up when its quite clear that that should not happen and that those found guilty of it should be heavily fined.

 

May be you should ask that self styled "Main Man" he seem to know it all..........or i do think now he has moved on to his next club the name "main" should be changed to something else!!!!!

 

That's unfair. All he has pointed out is that Oliver Greenwood was not tapped up by Coventry. I'd have done the same.

[21st century heathen 220]

So 21ST how has Mr Greenwood put the record straight,,are you saying RG is a liar with his reply on the scunny forum??

 

C'mon mate, that's a bit of a silly comment. He's attempted to set the record straight on here which is where I'm posting. I don't have the slightest clue what's been posted elsewhere. I suspect you may not know what Heathens fans have posted elsewhere on different forum's or social media sites.

[Hector Austin 51]

<p>

As I'm one of the fans your reffering to I would say to you " I have been a fan since the mid 70s and quite capable of seeing the full picture of our speedway leagues." I dont agree with a lot of your post, but hey thats because I stand in the freezing cold through the winter months at the EWR watching the Saints youngsters (and help some with money). Apart from Worral and Irving and possiblyTom Young the other riders defo would have benefitted from another year at Scunny, where track time is available. So try and make whatever you want to justify means that you have the right to our riders.....It won't wash with me. I note even you admit in your last sentence that after a couple of years perhaps we will see Clegg back HOME in Scunny.

 

That is your choice, you see Scunny through rose tinted glasses that is fine too, but all this 'our riders' and 'HOME' rubbish is just foolish, you know riders decide where they want to go!

And with the extreme costs involved in the sport who can really blame them for going where there is decent money offered??

Edited November 27, 2012 by Hector Austin

[greyhoundp 990]

HT, I havent condonned Tapping up, if it does go on with contracted riders then i strongly condem it, what i was trying to clarify, was does a contract end at a certain time/date ? then if thats the case, its perfectly okay for the riders to be approached.

[June 203]

<p>

 

That is your choice, you see Scunny through rose tinted glasses that is fine too, but all this 'our riders' and 'HOME' rubbish is just foolish, you know riders decide where they want to go!

And with the extreme costs involved in the sport who can really blame them for going where there is decent money offered??

Hector Read again... It was greyhoundp that used the words in his post. I merely used them in a reply. Anyway, I do agree riders will go where they want to and not for one minute do I think Rob Godfrey would stop that happening, if it was all done by fair means. Rob publically made it known at the start of 2012 that he was going to run the Saints for 2 years, which he's found from past experience is time youngsters need before PL. The Saints get loads of free track time ( more than most teams can offer) and do progress faster for that reason. Anyway this is all getting boring now. I just hope Rob finally gets the message not to bother, do like all other promoters. If you cant beat em join em!! That coming from me ( being one who believes in bringing the young brits on) is a shock to my system lol.

[montie 1,273]

C'mon mate, that's a bit of a silly comment. He's attempted to set the record straight on here which is where I'm posting. I don't have the slightest clue what's been posted elsewhere. I suspect you may not know what Heathens fans have posted elsewhere on different forum's or social media sites.

 

Not a silly comment at all,you said thanks for putting the record straight...now saying attempted to,,,,which is it to be???

 

Maybe if you dont have a clue what be posted elsewhere you should look at the link provided on this thread??

[21st century heathen 220]

I've commented on what was posted here and if there's a response to it here I shall probably comment on that too. I don't have the time or inclination to go chasing around every club forum/site/fan page/blog to see what may have been stated there but may not appear here. I very much doubt anyone does.

 

If you want to be picky about the wording I could have worded the original post to thank Mr Greenwood for his version of events but I think pretty much everyone will have read my post to mean that anyway.

[vog 200]

Not a silly comment at all,you said thanks for putting the record straight...now saying attempted to,,,,which is it to be???

 

Maybe if you dont have a clue what be posted elsewhere you should look at the link provided on this thread??

 

I presume the comment from Rob that you are pointing to is how Coventry approached him at the AGM after Oli had said to him that he didn't want to be at Scunthorpe this year?

 

Which goes hand in hand with what Oli's dad said about them approaching Coventry. Reading the two posts, it seems that Oliver's dad contacted Coventry asking for a team place, they discussed a contract, and then Coventry spoke to Rob at the AGM?

 

The only other bit mentioned is about Max Clegg, but that is a different tangent.

 

Either way, if Scunthorpe have said they don't want to run due to losing these 2 riders, it seems a bit ridiculous as they were going to have to lose 6 points anyway (Although I assume most of that would have been by replacing Jerran Hart with a 3 pointer)

[lkaakl1 14]

At the end of the day Saints could run as there are many riders wanting a team place,infact they could give the other teams in the league a shock with who is available. After reading every post on here im surprised that scunny have not said sod it were going with it as there seems to be alot of people who constantly get at them.

 

Saints fans live in hope

[EC Rides Again 143]

Saints fans live in hope

 

I'm surprised that nobody has commented on the news that the Saints have risen from ther dead and will take to the track for some challenge meetings in 2013. At last some good news from the EWR. I see that Richard has issued a "come and get us " plea for some away meetings too. I would have thought that stand-alones like Mildenhall and Stoke would be glad of the extra dates.

Edited February 28, 2013 by EC Rides Again

[waco 1,026]

If Scunthorpe are going to run National league friendlies it begs the question why did they not stay in the league which would surely have gained more spectator interest than meaningless challenge matches ..?? They are a massive loss to the National league hopefully if these challenges are reasonably successfull they will return to the league in 2014 ..I hope so...

Edited March 1, 2013 by waco

[montie 1,273]

If Scunthorpe are going to run National league friendlies it begs the question why did they not stay in the league which would surely have gained more spectator interest than meaningless challenge matches ..?? They are a massive loss to the National league hopefully if these challenges are reasonably successfull they will return to the league in 2014 ..I hope so...

 

Because i would say in this way they wont have to match the pay rates and success demands of the stand alone teams,simple really i guess

 

Scunny have different views to the rest who are now in the NL or the make up of the league,at least this way it can be done with development in mind for the future

 

Plus it keeps the Saints alive in a cost effective way

[Travertine 34]

............. If Scunthorpe are going to run National league friendlies it begs the question why did they not stay in the league which would surely have gained more spectator interest than meaningless challenge matches ..??

 

Can they not still enter just the National League Trophy, which could give them a few fixtures without breaking the bank?

[Jayne 312]

Can they not still enter just the National League Trophy, which could give them a few fixtures without breaking the bank?

 

No, that was stopped a few years ago as it meant riders were riding for more than one team. Can't imagine any rider would choose to just race in the Trophy as not enough matches, so its not a feasible option. Unfortunately money dictates everything for riders and promoters alike and there is no magical solution.