Vince 9,459 Posted March 21, 2013 I wonder how many of the posters on this topic (including myself) have ever written something along the lines of "Speedway should be a simple sport, 4 riders, 4 laps" while blaming the powers that be for making it complicated? I think that has happened more than a little here, some people think the sport is as good as it's ever been while some think it was better in the old days. No right or wrong, just an opinion. Obviously those who think the latter are mistaken though Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 21,029 Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) I wonder how many of the posters on this topic (including myself) have ever written something along the lines of "Speedway should be a simple sport, 4 riders, 4 laps" while blaming the powers that be for making it complicated? I think that has happened more than a little here, some people think the sport is as good as it's ever been while some think it was better in the old days. No right or wrong, just an opinion. Obviously those who think the latter are mistaken though Maybe you mean "the racing is as good as it ever was".That might be hard to disagree with.But to say "the sport is as good as it ever was" is a bit dodgy i would say.If you watched a good heat in a stadium with 5 or 10,000 others it is hard to say it is the same or even in your opinion worse than if you are among 300 or 1,000 people.I can go to an 80cc meeting in Denmark and see a great heat,but as there are only 100 people at most there it doesn't really have the same impact as watching a great heat at a packed Plough lane for the Internationale or an England v USA test match.I can't see how anyone can deny the sport has gone downhill from those days even if the racing has basically remained the same or similar Edited March 21, 2013 by iris123 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted March 21, 2013 Maybe you mean "the racing is as good as it ever was".That might be hard to disagree with.But to say "the sport is as good as it ever was" is a bit dodgy i would say.If you watched a good heat in a stadium with 5 or 10,000 others it is hard to say it is the same or even in your opinion worse than if you are among 300 or 1,000 people.I can go to an 80cc meeting in Denmark and see a great heat,but as there are only 100 people at most there it doesn't really have the same impact as watching a great heat at a packed Plough lane for the Internationale or an England v USA test match.I can't see how anyone can deny the sport has gone downhill from those days even if the racing has basically remained the same or similar No arguments on that score whatsoever Iris. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratton 1,491 Posted March 21, 2013 Bewitcher have you a opinion? it dosent matter if you are right or wrong,have you conviction in your own opinion?.Jensen and Magic ive seen live x6 times and with there CV background and history both are certainly good anough at there best.Both mega quick, in the GPS a different test need a good team behind them and it is very difficult ability wise no problem to either. FORGET 6 pt averages in the EL they turn up do there best but other tests are there priority. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted March 21, 2013 Bewitcher have you a opinion? it dosent matter if you are right or wrong,have you conviction in your own opinion?.Jensen and Magic ive seen live x6 times and with there CV background and history both are certainly good anough at there best.Both mega quick, in the GPS a different test need a good team behind them and it is very difficult ability wise no problem to either. FORGET 6 pt averages in the EL they turn up do there best but other tests are there priority. Sidney, you're tying yourself in knots and defeating your own arguments. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratton 1,491 Posted March 21, 2013 Sidney, you're tying yourself in knots and defeating your own arguments. Na what is your problem!debate you haven't a clue you would be a great politician!Give an opinion GR made you look a mug big time, but so sad you really believe you are ahead of the game.Ive said Jensen and Magic are very talented with you ive no idea what your overall feeling is you twist things around to suit yourself. The 2 ive mentioned are they world class ?is that to hard for you to take in tying myself up in knots laughable. Debating with you is so easy because you haven't the confidence and conviction of your own opinions what spin and twisting things around will you come up with next.? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) Na what is your problem!debate you haven't a clue you would be a great politician!Give an opinion GR made you look a mug big time, but so sad you really believe you are ahead of the game.Ive said Jensen and Magic are very talented with you ive no idea what your overall feeling is you twist things around to suit yourself. The 2 ive mentioned are they world class ?is that to hard for you to take in tying myself up in knots laughable. Debating with you is so easy because you haven't the confidence and conviction of your own opinions what spin and twisting things around will you come up with next.? One moment you are telling us how low quality the EL is. The next you are banging on about World Class riders, who just happen to be third heat leader/2nd strings in this 'low quality EL'. One moment you are telling us to forget averages, winning races etc as a way to judge a rider.. you just judge them on what you see 'live'.. The next you're banging on to forget their performance in the EL (which is what you'll have seen) and look at their cv's, their history etc.. which funnily enough is impressive because of the races they've won.. which funnily enough is how I have been saying good riders are judged all along. GRW didn't make me look like a mug, you are the only person who thinks that. He's made a series of ridiculous statements and thrown his toys out the pram, stamped his feet and run off when they were highlighted. My views have remained consistent throughout the entire debate, however I also acknowledge when I learn things. I wasn't aware that Chris Morton was consistently in the top 10 in the BL averages quite as often as he was, I thought he was in the 10-20 bracket. I didn't throw my toys out my pram and call people fools when that was highlighted to me. I didn't claim that it wasn't a fact, just that persons opinion, I took it on board like an intelligent person would. Regarding MJJ, no I don't class him as World Class yet. On his day he can beat the best, but he is not yet consistent enough to be classed as a World Class rider in my eyes. 6.90 average in Sweden, 6.50 in Poland, 6.54 in the UK show he has a way to go yet to enter the top echelon of riders. I'm sure he will get there. Janowski is fairly similar. 5.70 average in Sweden, 6.69 in Poland, 6.13 in the UK. Edited March 21, 2013 by BWitcher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted March 21, 2013 Maybe you mean "the racing is as good as it ever was".That might be hard to disagree with.But to say "the sport is as good as it ever was" is a bit dodgy i would say.If you watched a good heat in a stadium with 5 or 10,000 others it is hard to say it is the same or even in your opinion worse than if you are among 300 or 1,000 people.I can go to an 80cc meeting in Denmark and see a great heat,but as there are only 100 people at most there it doesn't really have the same impact as watching a great heat at a packed Plough lane for the Internationale or an England v USA test match.I can't see how anyone can deny the sport has gone downhill from those days even if the racing has basically remained the same or similar An excellent posting - and an important distinction. Getting the SPORT back to that level must be everyone's aim. Whether possible to achieve is another matter... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratton 1,491 Posted March 21, 2013 Well done Witcher you gave a straight opinion , well done as for making you look a mug GR did that big time but we won't hold that against you. I am not fans of either of the two mentioned but they are both world class has Jensen already won a GP? no different to Vacuiliev he,s a talent to.Do you believe the 2 mentioned are that bothered about the EL they do they're best but they move on and have bigger eggs to fry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted March 21, 2013 Well done Witcher you gave a straight opinion , well done as for making you look a mug GR did that big time but we won't hold that against you. I am not fans of either of the two mentioned but they are both world class has Jensen already won a GP? no different to Vacuiliev he,s a talent to.Do you believe the 2 mentioned are that bothered about the EL they do they're best but they move on and have bigger eggs to fry. I'm glad you think GRW made me look like a mug Sidney, if that makes you feel better and helps you sleep at night, that's good. Trying to get my head around the 'are they bothered about the EL'.. 'world class'.. and they 'do their best'... forgive me.. but if a 'world class' rider was 'doing their best' in the EL they'd be better than a 6pt rider. I guess you have a lower definition of World Class. I would class World class as someone at the top of the sport, near the top in the leagues they ride in and succesful at individual level. Greg Hancock, Chris Holder, Darcy Ward, Nicki Pedersen.. Jason Crump before he retired. Those are riders I would class as World Class. MJJ and Magic have the potential to be as good but are someway below them just now. They are not consistent enough to be labelled as 'World Class' at this point in time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratton 1,491 Posted March 21, 2013 Ward at the moment is not at the level of the guys you have mentioned he has not proved it no more so than Jensen.He will do i am convinced of it hope so ability wise the best i have seen since Mike Lee and yes he will prove it why would you name Ward in front of a 1 time champ Gollob? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted March 21, 2013 Ward at the moment is not at the level of the guys you have mentioned he has not proved it no more so than Jensen.He will do i am convinced of it hope so ability wise the best i have seen since Mike Lee and yes he will prove it why would you name Ward in front of a 1 time champ Gollob? Simply examples of riders who are above, well above, where Janowski and MJJ are at the moment Sidney. There are others too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted March 21, 2013 ... but they move on and have bigger eggs to fry. Bigger EGGS to fry..?! Sounds a bit fishy!! LOL! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratton 1,491 Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) Bigger EGGS to fry..?! Sounds a bit fishy!! LOL! If they ever get the chance Parsloes?the days of Lee having a chance to be champ in his teens are those days gone forever? Edited March 21, 2013 by sidney Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted March 21, 2013 If they ever get the chance Parsloes?the days of Lee having a chance to be champ in his teens are those days gone forever? They did get the chance. MJJ scored 0 0 0 0 0 in the final qualifying round. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
