E I Addio 15,862 Posted March 20, 2013 Tiger had a very good WF record: 4th. in his first; 3rd. in his second: unprecedented at the time for an English rider.. Not quite. His first WF was a5th then 4th then 3rd. Unprecedented ? Depends how you look at it. I would suggest Tommy Price 13th then 1st and Peter Craven 15th then 1st set the standard by reason of taking the top prize at the second attempt. Of course, if you extend "English" to become "British " then we get to include Freddie Williams, winner at his first attempt followed by 7th, second and 1st again. The more you juggle it the more you are stuck with the fact that you cannot compare era's. Just accept great riders for what they were. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conkers in Gravy 120 Posted March 20, 2013 I bet you're fun down the pub It gets to 11pm, "Oi, mate, we can't discuss your holiday, the discussion at 7.30 was the football". Conversation and discussions move on Excuse me for a bit of gentle p***-taking. Having returned to the subject after a few days, I was just amused at how far we'd moved on. As several people have said, it's virtually impossible to compare riders from different eras with different machinery, different tracks and different pressures, but I know one thing for certain, I'd pay good money to watch a Harris v Morton showdown on a well-prepared Hyde Road. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratton 1,491 Posted March 20, 2013 Tiger had a very good WF record: 4th. in his first; 3rd. in his second: unprecedented at the time for an English rider.. Could of been better if a GP Format would of had a few more opportunities. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted March 20, 2013 Excuse me for a bit of gentle p***-taking. Having returned to the subject after a few days, I was just amused at how far we'd moved on. As several people have said, it's virtually impossible to compare riders from different eras with different machinery, different tracks and different pressures, but I know one thing for certain, I'd pay good money to watch a Harris v Morton showdown on a well-prepared Hyde Road. There would have been only one winner in that Contest - and it wouldn't be Chris Harris. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratton 1,491 Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) Thats all well and good mate but on this one your view is that 2 + 2 = 5. Bwitcher is simply pointing out that it is 4, its not his opinion, he isn't trying to brainwash anyone, he is merely stating a fact. As for him having got round to agreeing with GRW, he has maintained all through this thread, and others, that the Elite League isn't as strong nowadays, its just that GRW was out of his depth in the debate and went on the schoolkid approach of trying to turn things around It is not FACT get that out of your thoughts,is it set in stone your opinion NO .As for GR out of his depth that is laughable,he to me has talked sense and he isn't one of these in the no it all brigades. As for you Oldace give BWitcher a ring and you will be fine have you not got your own opinion! out of his depth he made you and BWitcher look like mugs. Edited March 20, 2013 by sidney Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldace 1,678 Posted March 20, 2013 It is not FACT get that out of your thoughts,is it set in stone your opinion NO .As for GR out of his depth that is laughable,he to me has talked sense and he isn't one of these in the no it all brigades. As for you Oldace give BWitcher a ring and you will be fine have you not got your own opinion! out of his depth he made you and BWitcher look like mugs. Has the point that is being made got lost on you Sidney? Maybe one day it will click and you will feel such a fool. Until that day you will have to suffice with everyone else thinking your'e a fool Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) It is not FACT get that out of your thoughts,is it set in stone your opinion NO .As for GR out of his depth that is laughable,he to me has talked sense and he isn't one of these in the no it all brigades. As for you Oldace give BWitcher a ring and you will be fine have you not got your own opinion! out of his depth he made you and BWitcher look like mugs. He actually made the entire community of speedway fans look like mugs, none of us knew the true history of the sport and the reason clubs closed and heat formats were changed. Whilst clubs like Long Eaton, Bradford, Wimbledon, Canterbury, Cradley etc all closed due to houses being built, stadiums being sold etc.. the REAL truth was being concealed.. Until now, GRW has spilled the beans.. there weren't enough riders! Desperately the BSPA tried to take action to save more tracks by increasing the heats to 15 as it became clear there weren't enough quality riders to support a 13 heat format.. but alas it was too late.. and now we're down to just 10 teams.... Meanwhile he made us look like mugs with his explanation that Malcolm Simmons was better than Scott Nicholls because he won the World Pairs.. yep, a competition scrapped when Scott Nicholls was 15.. and a World Cup. May as well argue Darren Ferguson was a better footballer than Steven Gerrard because he won a league title one speedway fan argued.. What a mug he was! He also exposed what could potentially have been a race fixing scandal we never knew about.. the year the 15 heat format was brought in, all the top riders averages fell.. but GRW in his all knowing wisdom told us the old 13 heat format was harder.. so how did this happen? Easier format.. all the top guys averages fall... they can only be have been throwing races.. God Bless GRW for bringing this scandal to the attention of the world! Edited March 20, 2013 by BWitcher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratton 1,491 Posted March 20, 2013 Has the point that is being made got lost on you Sidney? Maybe one day it will click and you will feel such a fool. Until that day you will have to suffice with everyone else thinking your'e a fool No bigger one than you my friend, when i think of you the big Stevie Wonder hit comes to mind!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted March 20, 2013 I just called to say i love you? what's your number sid so we can reciprocate? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted March 20, 2013 Not quite. His first WF was a5th then 4th then 3rd. Unprecedented ? Depends how you look at it. I would suggest Tommy Price 13th then 1st and Peter Craven 15th then 1st set the standard by reason of taking the top prize at the second attempt. Of course, if you extend "English" to become "British " then we get to include Freddie Williams, winner at his first attempt followed by 7th, second and 1st again. The more you juggle it the more you are stuck with the fact that you cannot compare era's. Just accept great riders for what they were. You are VERY annoying... You simply choose to ignore the words "at the time"... When Tiger finished on the rostrum in '75 he was the first Englishman to do since Peter Craven won the title in '62. Understand the point now..?! No-one minds debating (that's the point of the BSF after all..) but your attitude in arrogantly dissing those with different views and then deliberately misquoting really is extremely tiresome.. IF you have a point, try arguing it without twisting what others have posted... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 15 Posted March 20, 2013 You are VERY annoying... You simply choose to ignore the words "at the time"... "unprecedented at the time" doesn't mean unprecedented in the 13 years leading up to it but in all of history up to that point. You've elaborated now and have a fair point but your first post was technically incorrect so it seems harsh to call someone annoying for reading your post the way most people would have done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted March 20, 2013 In fact "at the time" is surely tautological when used to follow "unprecedented"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted March 21, 2013 In fact "at the time" is surely tautological when used to follow "unprecedented"? Utter garbage. 'Unprecedented at the time' means exactly what I (who wrote it!) meant it to bloody mean!! At the time, for well over a decade, they'd been not a bloody sniff of an English rider finishing on the rostrum. Louis did it and it was unprecedented at that time. That is, for a Speedway 'generation', no-one else had done it... Lads, I've a degree in English and am a writer - don't try and argue semantics with me... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted March 21, 2013 Lads, I've a degree in English - don't try and argue semantics with me... so do i parsloes. are we going to have to get out a measuring tape to see who has the biggest to settle this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted March 21, 2013 so do i parsloes. are we going to have to get out a measuring tape to see who has the biggest to settle this? Not really. I know what I meant and it was, in truth, fairly obvious... The problem is, you lot hunt in packs being supercilious, disparaging and arrogant and in some cases (to sidney mainly) plain rude, so you WANT to mis-read things and pick at the scab of each argument. Frankly, IF you have the worthwhile arguments you claim, you'd just engage in debate like the rest of us - in a normal way, exchanging views and thoughts... But then I suppose that wouldn't, in truth, be the BSF if that happened...!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
