Wild Cards 2014

[Dave the Mic 258]

Of course it is unfair that Harris is the first reserve.More deserving candidates are out there and Harris is a serial failure who shouldn't have been anywhere near the meeting.Quite possibly the spot should have gone to a German rider who should have been in the meeting instead of him.As a late replacement he cozuld have completed in the meeting basically illegaly,but his points shouldn't have counted.Sure i remember rider competing in meetings,but not being in the actual competition......As it is if we look at the GP qualis we haveHarris (2 meetings) 4+10 which gives an average of 7Batchelor (3 meetings) 12+3,9+2,9=10Liglad (3) 12+3,11+3,7=10Jonasson (3) 9,9,6=8So all have a better average than Harris and all failed just the once.The thing is only Harris gets another chance after failing

The average score isn't relevantly at all. Whether Harris should have been given a place in the GPC, is not my point, it was about the slating of a man risking his neck to entertain us. Anyone who races speedway is not a failure, but a very brave person and regardless of your view, Harris, or any other rider, for that matter, is not a failure.

 

Further, the averages you refer to are irrelevant and how can he have competed illegally, when his inclusion was sanctioned by the FIM. And why should the place have been given to a German rider? On what grounds? Smolinski has qualified by right and I salute him for that, but you can't honestly suggest there is another German rider who could have been in with a chance?

I disagree with this. Laguta, MJJ, Dudek are definitely not one hit wonders unlike Harris.

Just because you only have seen them in occasional international meetings doesn't mean that we have as well.

 

I've been advocating for Laguta to be given a wild card for several years since he have been a solid scorer in the leagues for many years.

I don't know why he haven't entered the qualifiers for 2014, possible he knew that he wouldn't get a visa for the Grand Prix Challenge (GPC).

He have entered the qualifiers in some previous years but at least for one of these years he had to pull out due to injury.

 

Patryk Dudek, Michael Jepsen Jensen and Maciej Janowski are just like Darcy Ward, World U21 champions.

They should have an equally big or possible even bigger cause to be included compared to Darcy and Tai.

Laguta, Dudek and MJJ have also been riding very well in the leagues (at least Poland and Sweden),

 

Also your statement that Harris beat many of them in the GPC, isn't that a bit contradictory to your claim that we shouldn't base are opions

on performances in single international meetings, but you just did with Harris when you said that he did well in the GPC.

I respect your view, but disagree with you. How do you know I have only seen these riders in occasional international meetings? You make a massive assumption in making that statement. Just because you advocate Laguta, does that make you right? No, it doesn't. In any case, if he isn't prepared to go through the process, why should he be handed a spot? What makes him special? Possibly he couldn't get a visa, but also, perhaps he thinks he is "better" than doing the qualifiers and thinks he should be handed a place?

 

And why would Dudek, MJJ and Janowski be more deserving than Tai, or Darcy. Don't make me laugh. With the possible exception of Nicki Pedersen, Darcy, not that I like him personally, is the biggest box office in speedway and Tai's credentials need no justification at all.

 

Regarding the "one off" meetings, I accept this, but the point is, the one off meeting in question here was the GP play off, so it sort of mattered and Harris took the chance he was offered and why wouldn't he? The 16 riders knew the rules when they lined up at Poole.

Not only are Dudek and MJJ U21 world champions, they are consistently scoring big points in Poland and Sweden, and improving. Its time for the lame ducks like Lindgren to make way. One meeting on a blue groove Poole track is hardly the fairest way to dismiss a young man who has already won 2 world titles and a GP...

Yes they are, but Dudek was actually a reserve in Poland for most of the season and MJJ has had many poor meetings this season. And is Lindgren the same lame duck that has won a GP as recently as 2012? Thought so. And I'm not dismissing anyone, MJJ, is very talented, it just happens to be my view that he isn't a GP rider, not yet, at least.

[Pinny 2,536]

What makes Lindgren any more deserving of a wild card? Didnt do qualifiers and failed to make top 8.

 

Hes a very average rider when you take away the GB league, MJJ a fresh up coming talent, has won gps before, won world under 21 titles, been part of world cup winning teams, he should of been given a wild card instead of yet another for Lindgren.

[Trees 2,814]

Because he's Swedish and they wanted Swedish representation because of the Swedish authorities who pay money for the priviledge of having a Swedish GP!

[Star Fever 274]

......but a couple of decent performances on the world stage does not a GP rider make....

Exactly, but that's hardly a good statement in defence of Harris is it? Apart from his amazing win at Cardiff he's shown over many years that he does'nt really have what it takes compared to the rest of the GP riders for whatever reason. His time has passed - he's had his moment.

 

I've nothing against him - he's certainly got what it takes to be a speedway rider and can be a pleasure to watch - just not in GPs.

[iris123 20,991]

The average score isn't relevantly at all. Whether Harris should have been given a place in the GPC, is not my point, it was about the slating of a man risking his neck to entertain us. Anyone who races speedway is not a failure, but a very brave person and regardless of your view, Harris, or any other rider, for that matter, is not a failure.

 

Further, the averages you refer to are irrelevant and how can he have competed illegally, when his inclusion was sanctioned by the FIM. And why should the place have been given to a German rider? On what grounds? Smolinski has qualified by right and I salute him for that, but you can't honestly suggest there is another German rider who could have been in with a chance?

You fail to convince me on any of your points.In fact most miss and you have to revert to the old old one of "He is risking his life for our entertainment.....".Face facts.Harris went out not to entertain,but to make the top 8 or better during his time in the GPs.Mostly he didn't make it,which not only in my opinion,but surely his,meant he failed to live up to his expectations.This makes him a failure and because he failed on a number of occasions means he is a serial failure whether you like it or not.

 

Quite often i have not been entertained when going to meetings or watching them on tv/livestream which by your criteria means quite a lot of riders are failures.They do it to make money and don't think of me in the slightest.

 

The scores i quoted which are fact are only irrelevant because you don't like them and don't fit what you are saying.As it was,the German Fedration came out and stated that the rules were broken by including Harris without first informing them that there was a vacancy and for them to supply quite rightly a rider for that vacancy.Now i don't know what you call not following or breaking a rule,but to me that is not lawful,i.e illegal.Ok this is speedway and we get used to rules being broken,but what word would you use to describe that then?As a German rider should have been in,instead of Harris those are the grounds,regardless of whether Smoli qualified.I think if we go back to the early rounds in which Harris got his entertaining 4 points at least one German other than Smolinski scored more and did qualify for the next round.Maybe he would have scored more again if he was in the Poole meeting?

[Dave the Mic 258]

What makes Lindgren any more deserving of a wild card? Didnt do qualifiers and failed to make top 8.

 

Hes a very average rider when you take away the GB league, MJJ a fresh up coming talent, has won gps before, won world under 21 titles, been part of world cup winning teams, he should of been given a wild card instead of yet another for Lindgren.

I don't remember saying he was more deserving of anything, just not deserving of the slating he was getting. I'm no fan of Lindgren, particularly, but he has won a GP as recently as last year, reached several finals and been on the rostrum and has raced and scored double figures in World Cup Finals for what has been a pretty strong Sweden team. Henhas also performed consistently in league racing for a number of years and not just in the UK, as you suggest. In 2013, his Swedish league average was almost identical to MJJ's. In addition, GP finishes of 10th, 9th, 11th, 8th, 9th, 11th in the last 6 years, hardly make him an average rider.

Exactly, but that's hardly a good statement in defence of Harris is it? Apart from his amazing win at Cardiff he's shown over many years that he does'nt really have what it takes compared to the rest of the GP riders for whatever reason. His time has passed - he's had his moment.

 

I've nothing against him - he's certainly got what it takes to be a speedway rider and can be a pleasure to watch - just not in GPs.

I'm not defending him as a GP rider, his time in that regard may well have passed. The points I made were simply against those that were slating him so mercilessly. I suspect a good proportion of those doing so were also those cheering him at Cardiff that day and when he races for England. The rights and wrongs of him being offered a place at Poole can be argued as much as you like, but he cannot be criticised for accepting the place he was offered. It isn't his fault he was asked to race and given the chance, why would he decline?

Edited October 29, 2013 by Dave the Mic

[The White Knight 9,039]

I don't remember saying he was more deserving of anything, just not deserving of the slating he was getting. I'm no fan of Lindgren, particularly, but he has won a GP as recently as last year, reached several finals and been on the rostrum and has raced and scored double figures in World Cup Finals for what has been a pretty strong Sweden team. Henhas also performed consistently in league racing for a number of years and not just in the UK, as you suggest. In 2013, his Swedish league average was almost identical to MJJ's. In addition, GP finishes of 10th, 9th, 11th, 8th, 9th, 11th in the last 6 years, hardly make him an average rider.

 

I'm not defending him as a GP rider, his time in that regard may well have passed. The points I made were simply against those that were slating him so mercilessly. I suspect a good proportion of those doing so were also those cheering him at Cardiff that day and when he races for England. The rights and wrongs of him being offered a place at Poole can be argued as much as you like, but he cannot be criticised for accepting the place he was offered. It isn't his fault he was asked to race and given the chance, why would he decline?

 

Agreed. That's a much better record than some others I could think of.

[waiheke1 4,295]

 

Agreed. That's a much better record than some others I could think of.

apart from Harris, who can you name that has consistently been in the series with a worse record?

surely that is the record of a rider who is "average" or actually "slightly below average" at gp level?

[Star Fever 274]

apart from Harris, who can you name that has consistently been in the series with a worse record?

surely that is the record of a rider who is "average" or actually "slightly below average" at gp level?

 

Andy Smith.

 

Another Brit who was only in it because he was a Brit (although he did actually EARN his qualification for many years.. unlike some).

 

[and yes I realise its not Harris' fault that he's an official reserve - I'm just astounded that BSI deem him worthy/eligible when he'd failed to qualify for the meeting. I wonder if they'd have done the same if a track reserve (i.e Kyle Newman) had scored the same?!]

Edited October 29, 2013 by Star Fever

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

 

Andy Smith.

 

Another Brit who was only in it because he was a Brit (although he did actually EARN his qualification for many years.. unlike some).

 

[and yes I realise its not Harris' fault that he's an official reserve - I'm just astounded that BSI deem him worthy/eligible when he'd failed to qualify for the meeting. I wonder if they'd have done the same if a track reserve (i.e Kyle Newman) had scored the same?!]

 

 

YOU contradict yourself ... Andy Smith was only it because he was a Brit although he earned his qualification?

 

I have stated here many times.... the GP Challenge is nothing to do with BSI. It was the FIM's various procedures that eventually saw Chris Harris ride at Poole and their rules which see him as first reserve.

[BWitcher 12,453]

Don't know what the fuss is about.

 

Lindgren has the best moustache so he should be in. End of.

[racers and royals 8,731]

 

 

YOU contradict yourself ... Andy Smith was only it because he was a Brit although he earned his qualification?

 

I have stated here many times.... the GP Challenge is nothing to do with BSI. It was the FIM's various procedures that eventually saw Chris Harris ride at Poole and their rules which see him as first reserve.

Unfortunately although you very kindly offered to find out what exactly happened within these "procedures " we have never heard what actually happened when Zagar pulled out. Certainly in order Pavlic,Buczkowski and Dilger (through their federation)should have been asked.As Buczkowski was in the country riding for Peterborough the night before i can`t understand if asked why he would turn it down ?

[The White Knight 9,039]

 

 

YOU contradict yourself ... Andy Smith was only it because he was a Brit although he earned his qualification?

 

I have stated here many times.... the GP Challenge is nothing to do with BSI. It was the FIM's various procedures that eventually saw Chris Harris ride at Poole and their rules which see him as first reserve.

 

 

An honest question Philip.

 

Do you think that the involvement of BSI in Speedway has been of any REAL value to Speedway in this Country. If the answer is - yes - then how?

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

THE CCP Secretary at the FIM informed the respective federations when one of their riders was eligible to ride in the GP Challenge and it was then incumbent upon that federation to contact said rider. As and when the FIM were informed that said rider wasn't able or willing to compete the next federation in line was contacted and so on. This was done.

 

There obviously comes a stage when a line in the sand has to be drawn to ensure that the meeting has a full compliment and then the host federation (in this case the ACU) is asked to nominate a rider or riders.

 

 

An honest question Philip.

 

Do you think that the involvement of BSI in Speedway has been of any REAL value to Speedway in this Country. If the answer is - yes - then how?

 

YES ... many reasons but Cardiff alone is sufficient in my view.

[The White Knight 9,039]

THE CCP Secretary at the FIM informed the respective federations when one of their riders was eligible to ride in the GP Challenge and it was then incumbent upon that federation to contact said rider. As and when the FIM were informed that said rider wasn't able or willing to compete the next federation in line was contacted and so on. This was done.

 

There obviously comes a stage when a line in the sand has to be drawn to ensure that the meeting has a full compliment and then the host federation (in this case the ACU) is asked to nominate a rider or riders.

 

YES ... many reasons but Cardiff alone is sufficient in my view.

 

Oddly enough - Cardiff was the ONLY reason that was apparent to me.