Wild Cards 2014

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

 

Oddly enough - Cardiff was the ONLY reason that was apparent to me.

 

BUT I didn't say only ...

[Humphrey Appleby 13,958]

YES ... many reasons but Cardiff alone is sufficient in my view.

Given how the sport in Britain has continued to decline during the years of the SGP, then I think it's actual value to the sport is very questionable. Yes, it provides the opportunity of an annual day out for the fans in this country, and there's possibly an argument that the sport would have declined even more without it. What I don't think can be claimed though, is that it's actually increased interest in the sport in any manner that helps the survival of local tracks.

 

In fairness, the SGP did appear to tap into a latent support which was reflected in reasonable viewing figures for a while, but even those seem to have greatly declined to the extent that Sky don't see speedway as a 'must have' sport anymore. I doubt that resulted in any flow of money to anywhere other than BSI and FIM though.

[The White Knight 9,039]

 

BUT I didn't say only ...

 

No you did not - I agree.

 

But you didn't give ANY other examples either.

 

Did you?

 

I would ideally see a List of the benefits that you see from their involvement. Perhaps you could expand your answer a little? You did say many.

[phillipsr 2,056]

I had given up on speedway a while back and only after watching a GP did i come back bringing the wife with me. So thats two people that British speedway gained because of the GPs. Not much i realise but every little helps and i imagine im not alone

[JT 167]

 

THE CCP Secretary at the FIM informed the respective federations when one of their riders was eligible to ride in the GP Challenge and it was then incumbent upon that federation to contact said rider. As and when the FIM were informed that said rider wasn't able or willing to compete the next federation in line was contacted and so on. This was done.

 

There obviously comes a stage when a line in the sand has to be drawn to ensure that the meeting has a full compliment and then the host federation (in this case the ACU) is asked to nominate a rider or riders.

 

 

You've got to admit it's all very suspicious though, Phil. Or at the very least a massive coincidence. After finally giving up on Harris pre-season, the following happens;

• Whilst Harris was a full time rider (largely through Wild Card picks) the Cardiff Wild Card has gone to the highest placed non GP rider in the British Final for the past few seasons. This system seemed to work well and gave riders in the British Final extra impetus to do well.

   

  Low and behold, as soon as Harris lost his full time Grand Prix place, and heaven forbid, risked not qualifying for Cardiff, somebody decided to gift him his place, apparently without consulting the rest of British Speedway.

• After a truly dismal qualifying performance in the first round of the Grand Prix Qualifiers, Bomber bombs out of the qualifiers for another year. Or so we thought…

• Fast forward to the Grand Prix Challenge and after some dismay from riders and fans at the Cardiff WIld Card decision, Danny King is given the Poole Wild Card. Great, we thought, finally a new rider being given a chance.

   

  Then in the build up to the meeting, Zagar, Harris' former Trelawny team mate and one of the GP Challenge favourites (and a rider who was just inside the top 8 of the Grand Prix table at the time, with no guarantee of qualifying), apparently can't decide whether he wants to do the Poole meeting or not and the following questions arise;

1. Why doesn't Zagar, after going through the effort and expense of the qualifying rounds all over Europe, just do one more meeting at a track he knows quite well?
2. Why doesn't Zagar, when his chance of qualifying by right in the Grand Prix series is still uncertain, try to GUARANTEE his place in the 2014 series by riding just five rides at Poole?
3. If Zagar felt guilty about taking the place of another rider, (although I can't remember compassion and Zagar ever going hand in hand before AND we are talking about an individual format, where none of Zagar's countrymen are next in line) why did he leave it right to the last minute to make his decision? If he wanted a deserving rider to take a place, i.e Pavlic, Buczkowski or Dilger, why not give them a plenty of time to get there?

• What happens next? Zagar, pulls out right at the very last minute, and apparently the only rider who could be bothered, or was able to reach Poole in time, was the rider about 37th in line, you guessed it, Chris Harris. This despite Buczkowski (2nd in line) being in the country the previous night…

• Phil Rising quite rightly points out that FIM organise the Grand Prix Challenge, not BSI. BUT. and it's a big BUT, Harris' inclusion in this meeting rested on Zagar's decision, a rider who BSI could 'unofficially' guarantee a place the following season anyway, irrespective of his finishing place. You see, given points 1, 2 and 3, I can't think of a single logical reason why Zagar would pull out at the very last minute, unless he was told his place was safe for 2014, whether he finished in the top 8 or not.

Of course, I'm probably reading far too much into this, and Harris (who has also received five series wild cards) has never received preferential treatment. All of the above is purely coincidental…

 

JT.

Edited October 30, 2013 by JT

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

BUT Harris wasn't the first or only British rider to be asked to attend Poole initially as a meeting reserve, which is how he eventually got into the meeting. Had Craig Cook for example said yes he probably would have got in before Harris. It was only because Harris was prepared to go and take his chance should it arise that he is where he is today.

 

BSI had no part in this. Why would they? I am sure they would rather have Zagar in the GP than Harris anyway so why, as you seem to be suggesting, would they push Zagar into withdrawing. And Zagar would have had no idea at the time of his withdrawal who would take his place. Other riders via their federations could have come in but for various reasons (as I'm told by the FIM) declined.

[bigcatdiary 3,165]

I can remember riders in the past pulling out of FIM meetings in the past and being taken to task for it, surely if riders enter a said competition they are duly bound to compete in them as long as they accrue the necessary points for onward qualification.

 

Riders withdrawing for any reason other than injury or illness (MC required) should result in a penalty which would pretty much stop all this nonsense.

 

Harris hasn't done anything wrong other than do what he loves, riding any meeting he can, he even guested for the Panthers the night before the GP challenge when our great no 1 and team captain Kenneth Bjerre clearly couldn't be bothered.

[Star Fever 274]

 

 

YOU contradict yourself ... Andy Smith was only it because he was a Brit although he earned his qualification?

 

I have stated here many times.... the GP Challenge is nothing to do with BSI. It was the FIM's various procedures that eventually saw Chris Harris ride at Poole and their rules which see him as first reserve.

 

No I didn't contradict myself - Smith managed to scrape thru via the challenge OR he was chosen as a wild card for GB representation - if my memory serves. However, If my memory is wrong that he wasn't picked as a wild card at least once - then I apologise. It still doesn't deflect from the point though - that Smith had poor GP campaigns, and that Harris could possibly emulate Smith's 'achievements'.

 

And whether Harris was picked by BSI or the FIM or the ACU or whoever is irrelevant to the point - which is that he should NOT have been in the meeting and DEFINITELY NOT in the meeting with a chance of qualification!! He had his chance in the earlier qualifier and blew it!

 

I suppose we must be grateful at least that he only managed to get enough points for reserve....

Edited November 1, 2013 by Star Fever

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

JURICA Pavlic was knocked out of the qualifying rounds for the 2012 GP Challenge and was then afforded the wild card for the Challenge on his home track in Croatia ...

blame the system by all means but why be so hard on Harris?

 

If my memory serves me correct Andy Smith was never given a wild card slot... he was around at the time when those in the GP who didn't automatically qualify for the following year went into the Challenge.

[Dave the Mic 258]

apart from Harris, who can you name that has consistently been in the series with a worse record?

surely that is the record of a rider who is "average" or actually "slightly below average" at gp level?

An average finishing position of between 9th and 10th over that period is not the performance of an average rider at world level.

Andy Smith.

 

Another Brit who was only in it because he was a Brit (although he did actually EARN his qualification for many years.. unlike some).

 

[and yes I realise its not Harris' fault that he's an official reserve - I'm just astounded that BSI deem him worthy/eligible when he'd failed to qualify for the meeting. I wonder if they'd have done the same if a track reserve (i.e Kyle Newman) had scored the same?!]

Andy Smith was never given a wild card. He either gained his place through the series or qualified through the challenge.

Harris hasn't done anything wrong other than do what he loves, riding any meeting he can, he even guested for the Panthers the night before the GP challenge when our great no 1 and team captain Kenneth Bjerre clearly couldn't be bothered.

Quite.

JURICA Pavlic was knocked out of the qualifying rounds for the 2012 GP Challenge and was then afforded the wild card for the Challenge on his home track in Croatia ...

blame the system by all means but why be so hard on Harris?

 

If my memory serves me correct Andy Smith was never given a wild card slot... he was around at the time when those in the GP who didn't automatically qualify for the following year went into the Challenge.

 

Correct Phil on both counts and thanks also for confirming what I had said previously, which was that 1) The GPC and qualification is run and sanctioned by the FIM and is nothing to do with BSI and 2) That the correct procedure for Harris' inclusion at Poole was followed.

[Dave the Mic 258]

 

You've got to admit it's all very suspicious though, Phil. Or at the very least a massive coincidence. After finally giving up on Harris pre-season, the following happens;

• Whilst Harris was a full time rider (largely through Wild Card picks) the Cardiff Wild Card has gone to the highest placed non GP rider in the British Final for the past few seasons. This system seemed to work well and gave riders in the British Final extra impetus to do well.

   

  Low and behold, as soon as Harris lost his full time Grand Prix place, and heaven forbid, risked not qualifying for Cardiff, somebody decided to gift him his place, apparently without consulting the rest of British Speedway.

• After a truly dismal qualifying performance in the first round of the Grand Prix Qualifiers, Bomber bombs out of the qualifiers for another year. Or so we thought…

• Fast forward to the Grand Prix Challenge and after some dismay from riders and fans at the Cardiff WIld Card decision, Danny King is given the Poole Wild Card. Great, we thought, finally a new rider being given a chance.

   

  Then in the build up to the meeting, Zagar, Harris' former Trelawny team mate and one of the GP Challenge favourites (and a rider who was just inside the top 8 of the Grand Prix table at the time, with no guarantee of qualifying), apparently can't decide whether he wants to do the Poole meeting or not and the following questions arise;

1. Why doesn't Zagar, after going through the effort and expense of the qualifying rounds all over Europe, just do one more meeting at a track he knows quite well?
2. Why doesn't Zagar, when his chance of qualifying by right in the Grand Prix series is still uncertain, try to GUARANTEE his place in the 2014 series by riding just five rides at Poole?
3. If Zagar felt guilty about taking the place of another rider, (although I can't remember compassion and Zagar ever going hand in hand before AND we are talking about an individual format, where none of Zagar's countrymen are next in line) why did he leave it right to the last minute to make his decision? If he wanted a deserving rider to take a place, i.e Pavlic, Buczkowski or Dilger, why not give them a plenty of time to get there?

• What happens next? Zagar, pulls out right at the very last minute, and apparently the only rider who could be bothered, or was able to reach Poole in time, was the rider about 37th in line, you guessed it, Chris Harris. This despite Buczkowski (2nd in line) being in the country the previous night…

• Phil Rising quite rightly points out that FIM organise the Grand Prix Challenge, not BSI. BUT. and it's a big BUT, Harris' inclusion in this meeting rested on Zagar's decision, a rider who BSI could 'unofficially' guarantee a place the following season anyway, irrespective of his finishing place. You see, given points 1, 2 and 3, I can't think of a single logical reason why Zagar would pull out at the very last minute, unless he was told his place was safe for 2014, whether he finished in the top 8 or not.

Of course, I'm probably reading far too much into this, and Harris (who has also received five series wild cards) has never received preferential treatment. All of the above is purely coincidental…

 

JT.

 

You cannot honestly believe this to be true.

[Dave the Mic 258]

You fail to convince me on any of your points.In fact most miss and you have to revert to the old old one of "He is risking his life for our entertainment.....".Face facts.Harris went out not to entertain,but to make the top 8 or better during his time in the GPs.Mostly he didn't make it,which not only in my opinion,but surely his,meant he failed to live up to his expectations.This makes him a failure and because he failed on a number of occasions means he is a serial failure whether you like it or not.

 

Quite often i have not been entertained when going to meetings or watching them on tv/livestream which by your criteria means quite a lot of riders are failures.They do it to make money and don't think of me in the slightest.

 

The scores i quoted which are fact are only irrelevant because you don't like them and don't fit what you are saying.As it was,the German Fedration came out and stated that the rules were broken by including Harris without first informing them that there was a vacancy and for them to supply quite rightly a rider for that vacancy.Now i don't know what you call not following or breaking a rule,but to me that is not lawful,i.e illegal.Ok this is speedway and we get used to rules being broken,but what word would you use to describe that then?As a German rider should have been in,instead of Harris those are the grounds,regardless of whether Smoli qualified.I think if we go back to the early rounds in which Harris got his entertaining 4 points at least one German other than Smolinski scored more and did qualify for the next round.Maybe he would have scored more again if he was in the Poole meeting?

I wasn't going to reply to this, but the more I thought about it, the more I wanted to. I respect all views on here, we all have an opinion & are entitled to it. Your comments here though are laughable. The average scores are not relevant, not because they don't fit my thinking, but because they are not relevant in the process for qualification from the meeting in question. It wouldn't have mattered to me if it was Harris, Ricky Wells, Ludvig Lindgren or Ian Botham to be honest, but the point is due process was followed (see Phil Rising's post, he having checked with the FIM) & no one took up the vacancy in the meeting, so the FIM offered the place the British Authorities. The fact is, Harris wasn't the first rider to be offered the place, but when offered it, took it because he wanted to race, when others didn't.

 

So how is it "illegal"? By what law? The White House, The European Parliament, ADAC, Judge Judy or yours?

 

However, all this is insignificant really compared to your other comments. Entertainment is a subjective thing & it's very sad for you that you have been to meetings where you haven't been entertained. Personally, I am entertained at every meeting I see, because I marvel at the skill & bravery of the riders who go out on track in all conditions. Your comment about making money isn't especially valid. Do you think the lads in the NL & let's say PL reserves make money? Nope. And to say riders don't think about the fans is as ridiculous as it is inaccurate. It is doubtful that there is a sport where the riders interact with & are so involved with the fans as they are in speedway.

 

I am the director of a business in the South West & we employ 8 people, myself included. We continued to employ those staff over the last 5 years during some of the most difficult economic times this country has ever seen & we sustained a six figure profit for all of that time, whilst still providing a high quality service.

 

We aim to do business with every client we see. Of course, we don't ever achieve that & don't expect to, but does that make us a failure? Of course it doesn't.

 

What you suggest is the essentially every rider is a failure if they don't entertain you & every rider that doesn't win every event they enter is a failure too.

 

Is Nicki Pedersen a failure because he didn't win the GP this year? What about Jarek Hampel or Greg Hancock. And what about Edinburgh Monarchs? Are they failures too. The answer to this is no, of course they aren't. Not everyone achieves what they want to achieve all the time, but it doesn't make them a failure.

 

And finally, the "old one" of risking their lives for our entertainment. Mmmm. They know the risks, I get that. I have followed speedway for long enough to understand that. But it doesn't lessen the fact that it's true & you pouring scorn on this fact does you no credit all, given that you are using it simply to try & push home your opinion.

 

I have been present when riders have been killed, Tony Sanford died about 10 feet from me at Exeter & I was also 20 yards away from Garry Stead when he was paralysed at Somerset just a few years ago & perhaps you would like to ask Julie Richardson & her boys about riders risking their very being whenever they race & see if she thinks it's an "old chestnut". Your comments are, from a so called speedway fan, disappointing, disrespectful & to be honest, offensive.

 

All I would hope for is that riders entertain us & they do so & that what I wish for is that riders are safe at the end of a nights racing, which sadly isn't always the case. Who wins & who loses doesn't really matter, I'm a bit old for favourites. I don't really care what you think about my opinion, but your throw away line about riders wellbeing is out of order.

[Star Fever 274]

Andy Smith was never given a wild card. He either gained his place through the series or qualified through the challenge.

 

 

OK - Apologies for my poor memory. Doesn't deflect from the question I was answering though - to name somebody with a worse record than Harris.

[racers and royals 8,730]

An average finishing position of between 9th and 10th over that period is not the performance of an average rider at world level.

 

Andy Smith was never given a wild card. He either gained his place through the series or qualified through the challenge.

 

Quite.

 

Correct Phil on both counts and thanks also for confirming what I had said previously, which was that 1) The GPC and qualification is run and sanctioned by the FIM and is nothing to do with BSI and 2) That the correct procedure for Harris' inclusion at Poole was followed.

 

 

 

Sorry but we don`t know that the correct procedure was followed at all-until we are told-hopefuly under the freedom of information act-the answer to the following questions.

1 when did Zagar notify the FIM he was not riding at poole ?

2 when were the Croatian federation asked whether Pavlic would take his place ? and when did they reply no ?

3 when were the polish Federation asked whether Buczkowski would take his place ? and when did they say no-I have already posted on more than one occasion that Buczkowski was in the Country riding for Peterborough the night before the Poole meeting.

We also know that the German`s are angry that next in line after that-Dilger was never asked.

Edited November 1, 2013 by racers and royals

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

NOT sure the Freedom of Information Act applies in Switzerland...