Speedway Star - Point Of View

[The White Knight 9,039]

Spot on. The same happened last night with Bombers last lap pass of Smolinski.

 

We keep hearing talk of how things are 'too complicated' etc etc and it keeps fans away. Its got absolutely nothing to do with that at all. There are far more complicated sports. Besides, new fans, who are the ones you are trying to attract will know nothing and not be interested in 'rolling averages' etc initially. It's only once they've taken an interest in the product will they start investigating further.

 

 

 

 

 

There is absolutely nothing 'contrived/fiddled/manipulated' about the scoring system.

 

Of course there is BW. They say they want to 'make the Meetings closer to maintain excitement' - what is that if it is not contriving the Score. It is a contrivance to ensure a closer Result which ever way you look at it.

 

Two simple tweaks of what's currently happening which I reckon are worth considering ...

 

Firstly, most supporters can tolerate reasonable delays for medical matters but they don't like waiting around when the delay's less obvious and a prime case of that is when the referee agrees to give "extra time for a rider in 2 races in a row" without anyone knowing exactly how much extra time that means.

 

Simple solution ... as soon as it's clear there's a "2 in a row" situation, the referee declares "4 minutes" instead of "2 minutes" (maybe with a different-sounding klaxon, buzzer or bell) and then there's no argument about how much extra time is being given ... reminders at 2-minutes, 1-minute and 30-seconds can still be announced as usual.

 

Whether "4 minutes" could also be used for the re-run of a heat that's just had a pile-up wrecking a fair bit of machinery is more debatable but that's another situation where delays can start feeling as if they're delays just for the sake of it.

 

Second tweak involves removing the need for the wretched tactical ride (or tactical substitute or anything else that rewards earlier mediocrity) by adding two extra levels to the existing levels of league-points.

 

Remember, at the moment, it's as follows ...

Home - 3 league points if winning by 7 or more, 2 league points for a smaller win, 1 league point for a draw

Away - 4 league points if winning by 7 or more, 3 league points for a smaller win, 2 league points for a draw, 1 league point for losing by 6 or less

 

If you get rid of tactical rides, you're back to a basic 90-points up for grabs over 15 heats (unless there are any heats with 2 or fewer finishers) instead of anything between 90 & 96 currently ending up on the scoreboard ... now, consider the following structure for league points with no tactical rides allowed ...

 

Home - 5 league points for winning by 17 or more, 4 league points if winning by 9-to-16, 3 league points for a smaller win, 2 league points for a draw, 1 league point for losing by 8 or less, nothing for a heavier defeat

 

Away - 6 league points for winning by 17 or more, 5 league points if winning by 9-to-16, 4 league points for a smaller win, 3 league points for a draw, 2 league points for losing by 8 or less, 1 league point for losing by 9-to-16, nothing for a heavier defeat

 

Have a think about what you reckon are the plus-points and minus-points of that system ...essentially, it's turning the current 4 levels of the league-points into a 6-level system and while some supporters still prefer the bonus-point aggregate, I'd reckon a majority prefer the 4-level system now that they've had a few years to get used to it and so it shouldn't be too big a leap to get used to the 6-level system.

 

Clearly it adds some extra columns to a league table if you're going to show all the columns for the various margins (sorry about that Manchester Paul whose tables can be very useful for detailed analysis) but arguably, it's easier for the media to simply print one column each for wins, draws and losses followed by a points-column that can't be immediately calculated from the earlier columns (already happens in much of rugby union and lower levels of rugby league).

 

Barring chaotic scenes in any heat, it makes 54-points in a meeting the normal target for either side claiming maximum league points (probably meaning more incentive for a comfortably-winning home side to field their top riders in heat 15) while setting struggling away teams a normal target of 37-points to achieve any league points at all ... frankly, if you can't cobble together 37 in an away meeting (or 41 at home), you don't deserve anything.

 

It also keeps more teams in the play-off hunt with a few meetings to go because they've still got a chance to zoom up the table with a 5-league-points home-win or 6-league-points away-win.

 

Best of all it's goodbye to speedway's most ludicrous rule, namely the tactical ride that rewards a team with double the race-points for something that rider was going to be doing anyway ... yes, there's the occasional worthwhile fuss when a home reserve beats an away tactical number-1 (Paul Starke on his Berwick debut beating Leicester's Kauko Nieminen being a prime example this season) but that's not enough to make up for all the artificial results created by tactical rides or the general disbelief of newcomers that it's sometimes well worth a team doing badly in one race so they can rattle up double-points from their superstar in the next race.

 

Thanks for reading all of this ... what do you think ?

 

Jolly good Post arthur cross. I could definately live with that.

 

What you say makes a hell of a lot of sense. I wouldn't have anything at all against such a system being used.

 

It eliminates tactical rides and simply rewards teams for performance. There is no 'contriving' results involved. The better you do, the more league pts you earn.

 

So you admit that there is 'contrivance' in the current System BW. At last.

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

My eldest son stopped going once he hit 16 and had to pay adult rate, for a person still in full time compulsory education, it was far too much for him (or me) to find each week. Even student rates are too expensive for someone in 6th form, so he went from going every week to going once in the last 3 years and the same will happen with middle son in the future....youngest stopped going a couple of years ago but that was nothing to do with the actual sport (he is autistic and couldn't cope with the noise or the people)

 

I am on my second time round on going to speedway, I initially started going in the 80's but stopped in the mid 90's because I started my family and because the cost became excessive. For the last 3 years, the only thing that has kept me going to speedway is the fact I run the Updates site, without it, I would have stopped going in 2010 and the fact that in the interim time, my middle son has become hooked on the sport.

 

In the early days of my return, I would be on here every day, checking out the latest news, joining in the conversations etc but as the seasons have gone past and my interest has waned, I rarely come here now....a few seasons ago, I would know who rode where, their average etc, now I have to check all the time! For me, the constant changing of rules, the debacle of a few seasons ago with the not wanteds and the AGM, the advantage getting by the bending of rules to suit have all made me just that little bit disillusioned with it all.

 

To be honest, once middle son has to pay the increased admittance (he is the same as eldest, one of the eldest in the year, so more time between turning 16 and being able to get a student card for concession rate in 6th form than a lot of others, almost a year!), will probably be the day I will stop going for good as otherwise I will be Billy no mates standing there....... and that day is not far away.

 

I would have thought that if there was one fan in speedway who is definitely not (and indeed won't be) 'billy no mates' its you.

[Vincent Blachshadow 2,937]

As have been pointed out all sports have silly and complex rules .Most don't come back because they find speedway boring or don't take to it , to say it's because of the tac is rule is laughable ..no doubt in the old days these new people found the old rule fair and great lol

 

They went before the end of the match. Maybe they found it boring or didn't take to it, maybe they felt their time would be better spent in their local pub, I don't know. What I do know is they didn't think much to that rule and told me so and left not long after. I never posted they left because of the rule but that, despite the fact the extra points gave the visiting team a chance of getting a point in heat 15 these folk weren't there to see it.

 

Sorry if they didn't agree with some posters' opinions of that rule but there you go - not everybody does.

[Grand Central 2,654]

They went before the end of the match. Maybe they found it boring or didn't take to it, maybe they felt their time would be better spent in their local pub, I don't know. What I do know is they didn't think much to that rule and told me so and left not long after. I never posted they left because of the rule but that, despite the fact the extra points gave the visiting team a chance of getting a point in heat 15 these folk weren't there to see it.

 

Sorry if they didn't agree with some posters' opinions of that rule but there you go - not everybody does.

 

As if the hole wasn't big enough already ...

[moxey63 1,785]

I stopped going to speedway, simply because of a continuation of niggles along the years. I personally don’t feel the sport is believable anymore due to silly rules, riders dashing all over the place to race for other clubs at home and abroad and a certain lack of continuity with clubs and the men who turn out for them.

 

I know a lot of short termism is down to points limits, but I remember the days when team photographs weren’t outdated after one match, as of now, and you knew that your riders gave all for your team, and rules were just about as simple as they needed to be.

 

Different points for teams winning by certain margins... it is too much hassle to keep up with. I can’t be bothered keeping tabs on that sort of thing. It doesn’t add anything to the overall excitement of the product. It is a cheap way out of getting the racing more exciting, like the pathetic Golden Double ridded us of the Tac Sub rule.

 

Speedway is too far fetched now, when all that most fans wish for is a bit of decent racing and stability.

 

I can’t justify the chilly terrace stand of a couple of hours pretending that riders are committed to the team to warrant me being there. The lack of actual real racing in the league (especially the Elite) is down to riders doing too much.

 

I want riders to be loyal, not skipping in and out of airport lounges so they can race for another club. Would you begin to question it, say, if your misses had as many lovers as speedway riders had clubs… whether it was you she loved most of the four men she was dating? Would you question, the first time she had an off night with you but was a different person with her Tuesday-night date 24 hours later.

 

I want riders, when they have had a bad match for my team, to ride back into form for my team and not buzz off somewhere else and suddenly look a different rider.

Edited July 9, 2013 by moxey63

[orion 7,628]

 

 

They went before the end of the match. Maybe they found it boring or didn't take to it, maybe they felt their time would be better spent in their local pub, I don't know. What I do know is they didn't think much to that rule and told me so and left not long after. I never posted they left because of the rule but that, despite the fact the extra points gave the visiting team a chance of getting a point in heat 15 these folk weren't there to see it.

 

Sorry if they didn't agree with some posters' opinions of that rule but there you go - not everybody does.

And as I said when in the old days when you could bring in a world champion for a reserve as a tac sub that was great and the new fans found it really fair and came back each week . Edited July 9, 2013 by orion

[LagutaRacingFan 1,944]

The bottom line is how could Birmingham's Chris Harris help their rivals Wolverhampton Wolves increase their lead at the top.

 

This is why speedway will never be regarded as a serious sport by the media and most credible journalists.

[Barney Rabbit 730]

I went to speedway as often as I could, to Oz, USA, many GP venues, every track in GB open as of pre-WOD whilst employed and for the first few years of retirement. During that time I lived in various parts of the country before returning home to Peterborough on retiring. I took quite a few people with me to speedway meetings at various tracks but none of them took to the sport, not even my kids once they grew up and made their own decisions. Obviously I always asked why and, although most just shrugged and said they couldn't take to the stop/start nature of the sport some did cite the rules as a contributary factor. Surprisingly, none gave the state of the stadia as a reason, many saying that a good sporting spectacle would override the state of the place it was taking place in (and, having seen football in Donny Rovers' (then) Belle Vue stadium with them, I know what they mean).

I gave up going after November 2010 and I've posted why on relevant threads in the past but it wasn't any particular rule. There were/are some I don't agree with (and I don't agree with tac rides) but they weren't the reason I stopped going.

I have, however, taken the opportunity on some of the sunny Sundays we've had recently to take the lid off the MG and drive down to Mildenhall to watch some speedway there. I'll probably carry on doing that but, at the moment, I have no desire to attend the sport at PL or EL level. This may well change, we shall see.

[Cockney Rebel 97]

I stopped going to speedway, simply because of a continuation of niggles along the years. I personally don’t feel the sport is believable anymore due to silly rules, riders dashing all over the place to race for other clubs at home and abroad and a certain lack of continuity with clubs and the men who turn out for them.

 

I know a lot of short termism is down to points limits, but I remember the days when team photographs weren’t outdated after one match, as of now, and you knew that your riders gave all for your team, and rules were just about as simple as they needed to be.

 

Different points for teams winning by certain margins... it is too much hassle to keep up with. I can’t be bothered keeping tabs on that sort of thing. It doesn’t add anything to the overall excitement of the product. It is a cheap way out of getting the racing more exciting, like the pathetic Golden Double ridded us of the Tac Sub rule.

 

Speedway is too far fetched now, when all that most fans wish for is a bit of decent racing and stability.

 

I can’t justify the chilly terrace stand of a couple of hours pretending that riders are committed to the team to warrant me being there. The lack of actual real racing in the league (especially the Elite) is down to riders doing too much.

 

I want riders to be loyal, not skipping in and out of airport lounges so they can race for another club. Would you begin to question it, say, if your misses had as many lovers as speedway riders had clubs… whether it was you she loved most of the four men she was dating? Would you question, the first time she had an off night with you but was a different person with her Tuesday-night date 24 hours later.

 

I want riders, when they have had a bad match for my team, to ride back into form for my team and not buzz off somewhere else and suddenly look a different rider.

 

Thank you for answering my question Moxey63. I to long for the days when a rider rode for your club only and not two or three other clubs dotted around Europe but riders nowadays are professionals not part time pros as they were back in the 60/70s and as such they need to earn a living. They do this by riding as often as possible you can't blame them for that. Unfortunately we can't turn the clock back or we'd have one off World Finals at Wembley every year.Ohh Yes! And the riders mate doing the oil and dope for him instead of a team of mechanics, psychologist, Physios etc, that would keep the cost down. Then the Elite league teams could afford the best riders but sadly those times are gone. Having got all nostalgic and looking back through rose tinted glasses I still enjoy the racing so I'll keep going for as long as I can. I do think however that the Elite League needs a shake up somehow as the gulf between the top riders Holder, Ward, Woffy, Lindgren etc and the bottom riders, sometime a National Leaguer is too great. As seen on TV the Premier League doesn't have such a huge gulf and the reult is better racing(generally).

[BWitcher 12,453]

 

 

Of course there is BW. They say they want to 'make the Meetings closer to maintain excitement' - what is that if it is not contriving the Score. It is a contrivance to ensure a closer Result which ever way you look at it.

 

 

 

Wrong, the league points scoring system DOES NOT contrive results, which you claimed it does earlier in the thread. If I misunderstood that, apologies, but that was what I was referring too.

 

Of course tactical subs of any kind help to keep a meeting closer, that's been the case for 50 odd years so its hardly the cause of the sports problems.

 

The sports problems stem from many issues. Lack of promotion. Lack of presentation. Too much in fighting which leads to a lack of a cohesive plan to drive the sport forward.

 

I agree with Moxey in a lack of continuation in squads.. however that only applies to certin clubs. My own team, Wolverhampton has a very good continuity, sometimes perhaps at the expense of success but I am happy that I've seen many riders remain loyal to the club over a large number of years. Ermolenko, Correy, the Karlssons, Skornicki, Lindgren, Woffinden, Proctor and many more over the years.

 

There has been too much in fighting, promoters trying to get the best of each other, it might bring them short term success, but it's only long term harmed the entire league.

Edited July 9, 2013 by BWitcher

[Cockney Rebel 97]

From what can be seen above some people do just go off the sport for a variety of reasons and that will always be the case. People stopped going in their masses in the fifties I bet there wasn't a specific reason there, just that people found something else to do so you won't stop people from stopping, if that make sense, but the problem is finding new customers. If I knew how to do that I wouldn't have to pay to see a meeting again as the promoters would be letting me in for free. As someone mentioned when the youngsters get to a certain age they don't want to be seen to be enjoying what their parents enjoy, it's just not cool. So do you keep things as they are and keep the oldies happy or do you jazz things up and hope the the younger generation will flood in but risk alienating the long standing loyal oldies. Not an easy decision to make. What would you do if you were a promoter?

[Chadster 224]

I haven't been to speedway for a few years now, largely since Wimbledon closed. I'd prefer the old tac. sub rule but I can see the thinking behind the tactical ride, though I can see why it would puzzle newcomers because it is so unlike other sports, many of whom have substitute rules. Scoring systems are complicated in a lot of sports (bonus points in cricket and rugby, away goals in football) so why are these things not issues in those sports (perhaps they are, but I'm not aware of it). I suspect the difference is that speedway is perceived to be in crisis where the other sports aren't and so its fans are casting round for a solution and these seem to be obvious targets. Personally, my nearest track is Rye House and I don't go because it's a long trek by public transport for some not very good racing the last few times I was there. The racing there used to be good in the days of Ronnie Russell and I went regularly. So, my suggestions are, well-prepared tracks, evenly matched riders and speedway can still be immensely attractive.

[SCB 15]

I've gone from 60+ meetings a season about 5 years ago to 5 meetings in 24 months. Why? It's no ruled, it's Matt Ford and self interest. Kildemand-gate was the straw that broke the camels back.

[AlanF 295]

First step has to be to do some market research. You can't give the people what they want if you don't know what it is that they want.

 

My personal view is that it is nothing to do with the racing or the rules. If you go to a US sporting event there is hardly a moment where there is nothing going on. There are interveiwers with roving mikes talking to fans, competitions with instant prizes and lots of music that is relevant to what is happening on the field. Give the riders their own theme tune that they come onto the track to. Play a snippet of three songs and have the fans text in which one they want to hear in full. Make the fans feel involved in the event. Would also help to have decent PA systems where everything comes over loud and clear. Half heard interviews and tinny music are a real turn off.

 

Some of these ideas may cost a few quid, but the Sky money should have been used to build infrastructure and promote the sport, not subsidize pay rates that the sport could not afford.

[ch958 2,398]

I've gone from 60+ meetings a season about 5 years ago to 5 meetings in 24 months. Why? It's no ruled, it's Matt Ford and self interest. Kildemand-gate was the straw that broke the camels back.

 

which is why a ruling body independent of bspa is vital or else every dcision will be driven by self interest