F2 Speedway - Any Views?

[Skodaman 192]

you have the chance to see for yourself next sunday at buxton Aidan Collins will be riding one in the meeting against laydowns and uprights

 

And at Leicester next Saturday at the MDL Championship.

[brewer 159]

i do see why this is being looked at and fully agree with the prospect of major manufacturers coming into the sport, something that has been tried in the past, speedway was seen by honda as a minority sport when speedway was pretty big still. but getting back to the engines, the rules would have to be changed totally, petrol, gearboxes, wet clutch as opposed to dry etc, i know not hard to do but many are saying bring it into nl now, so what does the lad doubling into pl have to do have one of these and his usual speedway bikes for pl, that makes it expensive.

 

vince you say the parts last longer, but why is this, surely conrods/pistons etc are made of the same materials regardless of the sport, if not why not, if it is due to petrol being used and not methanol, surely it would be of more benefit to everyone to look at petrol again (i know it was tried before),then riders would not have to just dump there current equipment and start again, an expense thast would put many out of the sport as you would have no market to sell your gm/jawa to.

 

again sorry for my original negativty and i am reading what everyone is saying, but it seems very kneejerk, and cant see that it will help speedway in its current state, which is primarily down to lack of crowds due to poor promotion/poor stadia (not always speedway promotions fault).

i dont believe it will bring more riders into the sport either, this can only be done with tracks and tracktime being more available to those that want to try it.

[The White Knight 9,039]

Turn speedway into Bitzabike racing , no thanks ,it's already been tried and has neither riders flocking to it nor spectators , take a look at poor mans speedway and you will lose interest after about 10 minutes , a few over the hill speedway riders on anything with 2 wheels is not exactly an internatioinal sport , and too much messing around with the speedway formula will risk what is an international sport turning into an amateur attraction for weekend warriors and dreamers .

 

They have ALREADY, as you say, "messed around" with Speedway's Formula FAR TOO MUCH!! :mad:

 

I fear for the future of our wonderful Sport which I have supported for nigh on Fifty years.

 

It certainly isn't the same Sport that I loved in my early days. :sad:

[THE DEAN MACHINE 4,804]

 

 

They have ALREADY, as you say, "messed around" with Speedway's Formula FAR TOO MUCH!! :mad:

 

I fear for the future of our wonderful Sport which I have supported for nigh on Fifty years.

 

It certainly isn't the same Sport that I loved in my early days. :sad:

get yourself to buxton on sunday .it will be the speedway you loved. japs jawas weslakes. ex riders ,no stupid rules .a dip into the past to secure the future and just £10 to get in

[The White Knight 9,039]

get yourself to buxton on sunday .it will be the speedway you loved. japs jawas weslakes. ex riders ,no stupid rules .a dip into the past to secure the future and just £10 to get in

 

I really wish I could but I have a prior engagement then. :sad:

[Vince 9,459]

 

vince you say the parts last longer, but why is this, surely conrods/pistons etc are made of the same materials regardless of the sport, if not why not, if it is due to petrol being used and not methanol, surely it would be of more benefit to everyone to look at petrol again (i know it was tried before),then riders would not have to just dump there current equipment and start again, an expense thast would put many out of the sport as you would have no market to sell your gm/jawa to.

 

 

Manufacturing tolerences, water cooling, much lower compression ratios and mainly 50bhp instead of 75bhp. The Japanese are producing hundreds of thousands of these units and their customers would in no way accept engines with the lifespan of a Speedway engine. Neither do they need/ want the outright power so that is the trade off. As far as I am aware the idea is to have a formula that allows a cheaper and easier route into the sport rather than replacing what is already there. Presumably if they were ever to be bought into any of the leagues it would be a long term and gradual change

[ford 26]

i do see why this is being looked at and fully agree with the prospect of major manufacturers coming into the sport, something that has been tried in the past, speedway was seen by honda as a minority sport when speedway was pretty big still. but getting back to the engines, the rules would have to be changed totally, petrol, gearboxes, wet clutch as opposed to dry etc, i know not hard to do but many are saying bring it into nl now, so what does the lad doubling into pl have to do have one of these and his usual speedway bikes for pl, that makes it expensive.

 

vince you say the parts last longer, but why is this, surely conrods/pistons etc are made of the same materials regardless of the sport, if not why not, if it is due to petrol being used and not methanol, surely it would be of more benefit to everyone to look at petrol again (i know it was tried before),then riders would not have to just dump there current equipment and start again, an expense thast would put many out of the sport as you would have no market to sell your gm/jawa to.

 

again sorry for my original negativty and i am reading what everyone is saying, but it seems very kneejerk, and cant see that it will help speedway in its current state, which is primarily down to lack of crowds due to poor promotion/poor stadia (not always speedway promotions fault).

i dont believe it will bring more riders into the sport either, this can only be done with tracks and tracktime being more available to those that want to try it.

 

A Kawasaki KHF450 has a stroke of 62.1 mm and a rev limiter at 11500rpm

Which equates to a piston speed of 23.80 metres per second

 

A GM speedway engine has a stroke of 78.5 mm and has no rev limiter and will easily rev to 13000 rpm Which equates to a piston speed of 34 metres per second.

 

For a GM to have the same stress on it’s components as a KHF 450 it should only be allowed to rev at 9500 rpm, so why not have rev limiter’s on the GM’s.

[SCB 15]

A Kawasaki KHF450 has a stroke of 62.1 mm and a rev limiter at 11500rpm

Which equates to a piston speed of 23.80 metres per second

 

A GM speedway engine has a stroke of 78.5 mm and has no rev limiter and will easily rev to 13000 rpm Which equates to a piston speed of 34 metres per second.

 

For a GM to have the same stress on it’s components as a KHF 450 it should only be allowed to rev at 9500 rpm, so why not have rev limiter’s on the GM’s.

I thought rev limiters were being developed for British speedway?

[ford 26]

I thought rev limiters were being developed for British speedway?

 

I've heard that too, but it's all gone a bit quite anyone know any thing

[Ray Stadia 1,071]

I really wish I could but I have a prior engagement then. :sad:

Sounds like you are onto a promise TWK! Have fun!

[speedibee 3,091]

I've heard that too, but it's all gone a bit quite anyone know any thing

They decided to help to cut costs by allowing the use of titanium after it being banned for many years , the primary advantage of titanium parts at 3 times the cost of normal alloy ,Is lighter weight allowing the engine to rev more , be a bit silly to bring in a rule which means expensive parts make engines rev more only to thwart them with a rev limiter . a total waste of money for the riders , The SCB are far too clever to let that happen !!!

[speedibee 3,091]

Manufacturing tolerences, water cooling, much lower compression ratios and mainly 50bhp instead of 75bhp. The Japanese are producing hundreds of thousands of these units and their customers would in no way accept engines with the lifespan of a Speedway engine. Neither do they need/ want the outright power so that is the trade off. As far as I am aware the idea is to have a formula that allows a cheaper and easier route into the sport rather than replacing what is already there. Presumably if they were ever to be bought into any of the leagues it would be a long term and gradual change

If you think lower BHP is the answer , and will lead to less servicing reduced cost increased engine lifespan , then the answer is already out there without the need for any experimentation and its associated costs , two valve Jawa's and Jap,s will do nicely ,

[Vince 9,459]

A 2v Jawa or a JAP is still a very high compression engine with huge flywheels that vibrate, they do so at lower revs which could allow a little more reliability if modern manufacturing was bought into play. They were never anywhere near as reliable as a modern Japanese engine in any case. You would still be cleaning carbs and stripping clutches every meeting as well, the idea is to have something that needs minimal maintenance for newcomers to the sport.

 

The power reduction is because of the way the engine is built to provide reliability not the other way around.

[robolots 35]

I can't really see this happening IF it is a way of getting into the sport cheaply etc etc. There are no engines readily available, there are no frames really readily available, the engines I agree will need less servicing, but not that much less overall and all the ancillary components will push the price up-look at the cost of a new decent mx rad.

Then what will happen is people will want to go faster, so you just start the tuning cycle again which happens in EVERY form of motorsport as the goal is to win-the price starts going up and up.

I have seen these bikes a few times and tbh I was surprised that the riders managed to stay on it!!

 

If however it is an alternative form of speedway not an alternative to speedway, then good luck with it and I hope it goes well. Just don't keep pretending that it is a cheaper form of speedway as it quite clearly isn't.

Edited September 23, 2013 by robolots

[Ray Stadia 1,071]

Using different engines is nothing new in the Grass Track world, which is not a million miles away from Speedway. Over the years, I have seen many engines used, particularly in the 250 cc and 350 cc class. Engines, such as BSA Gold Star, 350 cc and 500 cc, running methanol. BSA 250 cc C15 engines and many Motocross engines. The engines have been used with much success, particularly in the 250 cc class. I think with Speedway supporters, nothing other than a 500 cc, air cooled, methanol burning single cylinder engine with countershaft will do and ideally, lubricated with castor oil!