E I Addio 15,863 Posted September 17, 2014 Ha ha! Yawn. I'll keep it simple. Meetings between mediocre mid table teams have NEVER attracted big crowds even with the chance of a place in pokc. Meetings involving the top teams chasing the title, especially towards the end of the season used to attract huge crowds when the top team was crowned champions. Agree or disagree? Disagree. Lakesides biggest crowd of the season is always the Good Friday local derby with Eastbourne, and I daresay most local Derbys bring in the biggest crowd irrespective of position in the league.. The second biggest crowd of the season at Lakeside is usually Coventry because they come on a Saturday rather than the usual Friday fixture , which seems to be a more attractive night for many fans especially those with long journeys,. Nothing to do with league position. Jon Cook wrote about attendance patterns in the Lakeside programme a year or two back. They tend to be reasonably good in the first few meetings of the season then slowly drop off until the start of the school holidays (which obviously co-incides with better weather) when they pick up again. Other tracks may be the same, or they may not but I would think that general pattern applies most places to a degree. You are putting forward a puerile argument.. There are so many factors that influence attendances, and not always the same factors at each track that it is impossible to sustain your argument unless you have carried out a detailed survey of attendance patterns at every track every track. The weather seems to affect the size of the crowd far more than league tables. I think you are mistaken about the excitement of top teams chasing the title. Sometimes it was close other times one team had a clear lead by halfway through the season. I can also remember occasions when the League title wasn't decided by a match involving the eventual winners. Quite often a match between two other teams would mean one of them could no longer take the title. FWIW I would prefer a straight league in a perfect world because I think it is fairer but I wouldn't say that one system is necessarily a bigger crowd puller than the other taking all teams into account. You said in an earlier post that it was your opinion. If it seems that way to you as an opinion that's fair enough but there I no way of proving factually that the plays-offs are responsible for crowds being smaller over a season than would have been the case anyway. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve0 5,517 Posted September 17, 2014 Only one point needed to secure top spot and then to pick their opponents for the semis... Who will it be? Whoever finishes top (KL or Poole) will surely pick Coventry. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nellie 144 Posted September 17, 2014 Only one point needed to secure top spot and then to pick their opponents for the semis... Who will it be? I think KL need a draw to finish top of the table, as Poole have a better points difference. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,641 Posted September 17, 2014 You said it, lol! How are you doing with the challenge you set yourself the other day? Fair play from 11 matches you pick out you change it to one to is truly amazing I never saw that many mistakes to be honest thou the little you know about speedway it's to be expected I guess Any how in the last Weeks I guess Swindon v Wolves would have meant nowt without the play offs Leics v Swindon ,Wolves v Eastie any match with Lakeside I could go on but I guess it's to many to put on here Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,641 Posted September 17, 2014 OMG! Ppttthhhhogghhth! That has to be the biggest WHOOOOOSSSSSSHHHHHHH I've ever seen, even from you! Brilliant, thanks for coming, lol! The biggest whoosh was you list going from 11 to 1 in a couple of hours ...As I said even by your low standards it was truly amazing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,641 Posted September 17, 2014 (edited) Look, I know you're not the sharpest tool in the box but you are probably a nice fellow which is why I don't take the pee too much but do you know what RTFQ means, lol! Anyone who makes a list like you do and nearly gets everyone wrong really should really not be talking about sharpest tool in the box etc . People take the mickey out of you all the time on here ,the trouble is your so stupid you can't see it . It's no wonder over the years you have been re named drop a clanger on here as yet again you dropped another one today ... Edited September 17, 2014 by orion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foreverblue 6,125 Posted September 18, 2014 There are no meaningless meetings for the teams trying to achieve top spot or trying to get into the top four. What happens when a team wins the league easily, there are no meaningful meetings in the last few weeks of the season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
E I Addio 15,863 Posted September 18, 2014 I had assumed it was taken as read that factors such as the weather, derby meetings, school holidays, day of the week etc would have a dramatic effect on attendances. Most if not all are pretty much fixed and we have to work around them unlike the pokc which we don't need. Specifically my 'puerile argument' is that the pokc doesn't 'bring fans in' when the whole season is taken into account. The pokc sycophants have been brainwashed by the uber hype from sky and the slightly bigger gates (not last season or the season before though) for the pokc semis and the big gates for the pokc final. You can either take on board a theory and work with the available data or you can debunk the theory on the basis that accurate data isn't available. It's the difference between being open minded (the Earth is round) and 'I'll believe it when I see it' (the Earth is flat). I can see the merits of both (because I'm open minded lol!) but don't leave yourself open to criticism for having double standards. The post that engaged me in the pokc debate this year was the claim that 'it brings fans in'. I've given my theory explaining why I think the opposite. The pokc sycophants' 'theory' is largely based on the 'logic' that if I'm right then without the pokc fans would be flocking in! Pretty much the same stupid mind set as someone who thinks every Muslim supports IS because every IS supporter is Muslim. Read the thread if you don't belive me. When I said there was a risk of double standards, at what point were you planning on asking the pokc sycophants to provide a 'detailed survey of attendance patterns at every track' to back up the claim that 'it brings fans in', never mind explaining to them that the extra fans the pokc bring in are actually down to the day of the week, weather, derby meetings etc etc? So now we are back to saying it is a theory. Well yes it is a theory but theory and fact are not the same thing. All we know for a fact is that the PO's generally bring in bigger crowds than normal matches and give the top clubs the chance of more income, but they are also an important carrot to the Sky contract, and whether we like it or not the Sky money is crucial to the sport in its present form. The other point we can say as a fact is that Sweden and Poland have a play-off system , so do a number of other sports, so if you are right all the TV companies and marketing men in those sports must be wrong. Whether people like the play-offs or not, it is impossible to compare like with like. The difference in attendances between now and the days of the straight league vary for a whole range of reasons and attempt to compare the two systems is, for the average person , nothing more than guesswork . Both systems have their advantages and disadvantages, and whichever way you go someone will not like it, but you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs. You demean your own position by constantly referring to those who favour the play-offs as stupid and sycophants but your own theories are no more persuasive, and, as I said , are contrary to the thinking of the speedway authorities on the continent and those of the marketing men in other sports who presumably have some statistical information to work with. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,641 Posted September 18, 2014 There are no meaningless meetings for the teams trying to achieve top spot or trying to get into the top four. What happens when a team wins the league easily, there are no meaningful meetings in the last few weeks of the season. Crowds go down and Teams go bust . it may not be the last weeks of the season a team might runway with it in June . Of course Fools like Drop a cog who think that it will go the wire every season and even if that was not the case the same amount fans were turn up to matches that have nothing on them . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted September 18, 2014 (edited) I had assumed it was taken as read that factors such as the weather, derby meetings, school holidays, day of the week etc would have a dramatic effect on attendances. Most if not all are pretty much fixed and we have to work around them unlike the pokc which we don't need. Specifically my 'puerile argument' is that the pokc doesn't 'bring fans in' when the whole season is taken into account. The pokc sycophants have been brainwashed by the uber hype from sky and the slightly bigger gates (not last season or the season before though) for the pokc semis and the big gates for the pokc final. You can either take on board a theory and work with the available data or you can debunk the theory on the basis that accurate data isn't available. It's the difference between being open minded (the Earth is round) and 'I'll believe it when I see it' (the Earth is flat). I can see the merits of both (because I'm open minded lol!) but don't leave yourself open to criticism for having double standards. The post that engaged me in the pokc debate this year was the claim that 'it brings fans in'. I've given my theory explaining why I think the opposite. The pokc sycophants' 'theory' is largely based on the 'logic' that if I'm right then without the pokc fans would be flocking in! Pretty much the same stupid mind set as someone who thinks every Muslim supports IS because every IS supporter is Muslim. Read the thread if you don't belive me. When I said there was a risk of double standards, at what point were you planning on asking the pokc sycophants to provide a 'detailed survey of attendance patterns at every track' to back up the claim that 'it brings fans in', never mind explaining to them that the extra fans the pokc bring in are actually down to the day of the week, weather, derby meetings etc etc? Your theory, as you have explained it, is that crowds are lower at meaningless matches and you've joyously highlighted a couple of end of season matches to back up your claim. However as has been pointed out to you, there are FAR more meaningless fixtures under a straight league system than a play off system. Thus, there is not even a need for 'pokc sycophants' ,as you delight in calling folk who disagree with you, to provide 'attendance figures' as you have debunked your own theory. The second part of your 'theory' is that crowds are decling due to the playoffs, which again, can easily be shown to be incorrect due to the declining crowds for the 20 years prior to playoffs being introduced. As E I Addio has correctly pointed out, playoffs work successfully in other countries and in other sports. All of this evidence points to the fact that the problems within the sport are not play off related but caused by other factors. Factors that existed before the playoffs were introduced and have continued and worsened since. Lastly, once again you've thrown something into your argument that isn't correct, namely your assertion that the 'crowds' for last years semi finals weren't any bigger than normal league meetings. You are wrong. I was at Wolverhampton v Birmingham and the crowd was a large one, far above that of a league meeting. Edited September 18, 2014 by BWitcher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jive 47 Posted September 18, 2014 Do us a favour mods and close this thread yawn 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CB252 1,376 Posted September 18, 2014 Only one point needed to secure top spot and then to pick their opponents for the semis... Who will it be? Whoever finishes top (KL or Poole) will surely pick Coventry. If Poole finish top I'll be amazed if they don't pick King's Lynn. With Robins and Bees contesting the other semi on the same night, decent guests will be nigh on impossible to come by and Lynn could end up with Nicholls covering Iversen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted September 18, 2014 Do us a favour mods and close this thread yawn Oh dear, a discussion about speedway on a speedway forum. Terrible. I accept that its not entirely Kings Lynn related, although as they are both in the playoffs and may finish top it is connected. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kenny bee firefly 103 Posted September 18, 2014 If Poole finish top I'll be amazed if they don't pick King's Lynn. With Robins and Bees contesting the other semi on the same night, decent guests will be nigh on impossible to come by and Lynn could end up with Nicholls covering Iversen. Nicholls has just hit some real form the last week or so !! With Porsing now seemingly back to the level he was at mid season and a fit lewis kerr kings lynn way more stronger than the bees !! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foreverblue 6,125 Posted September 18, 2014 Nicholls has just hit some real form the last week or so !! With Porsing now seemingly back to the level he was at mid season and a fit lewis kerr kings lynn way more stronger than the bees !! Totally agree there he is the one i would pick he not be Ward or Iversen but he is in form and probably a better option than most. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
