Nothing Changes

[BritPete 625]

Deleted.

Edited October 2, 2013 by BritPete

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

I'm sorry E I Addio, but Lakeside have been party to these events with their rolling over with regards to the infamous postponement earlier in the year and their rolling over with regards to the illegal riding order Poole tracked against them last season.

 

I agree.

 

They may have said that 3 years ago, but what have they done in the mean time ?

 

The truth as I see it is they are all equally complicit in every dodgy and/or corrupt decision because no-one ever does anything about them.

 

I don't think you can have an independent body to run the sport, but you most certainly can to ensure that they stick to their own rules and that decision making is both legal and transparent.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Halifaxtiger

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

FROM my memory the dispute started because Coventry felt the goalposts were being moved after they had agreed a double spearhead of Andersen and Kaspzrak ... Harris had already been told he could go. Peterborough had signed and paid a big fee to Rye House for Lunus Sundstrom which they might not otherwise had done. Initially at least it certainly had nothing to do with Matt Ford. That particularly dispute between Matt and Allan Trump festered and grew but it wasn't the trigger.

[BritPete 625]

Oh I see, it's an old article.Swindon fans will remember that match! Chris Holder, I believe, held court before the meeting, and he told the assembled few what he was about to do, then we were treated to the wonderful spectacle of Travis McGowan, passing Holder. Also, Leigh Adams made a comment about what Poole were up to on that night. They had a whitewash of an inquiry that wasn't worth a bag of beans!

[E I Addio 15,845]

 

They sided with Poole on the other rules as well ...even thou they knew that is was all about Ford giving teaching Cov a lesson ..if they have not got along with ford then maybe cov and boro would have not walk out ...the bottom line is there as bad as anyone else as they have helped Ford do his dirty work

 

There were lots of issues swirling around at that time. Stuart Douglas set out his position in an interview with SS in November 2010 but a number of clubs didn't want to listen to his ideas for stopping spiralling costs and the result is clubs now making bigger losses so we look like losing a lot of top riders in 2014 which is the very thing Duggo was trying to avoid if you read the article.

 

Also when Cook and Douglas were calling for an independent body in May 2010, 6 months before the AGM Trump and Frost never came out at that stage and said "Yeah, great idea", it was only when it suited their purpose they started on about it.

 

We can argue until the cows come home on the rights and wrongs of the winter of discontent, but nobody is going to change their opinion on it at this late stage. I am not saying that Cook, Douglas or anyone else is whiter than white. The issue that collectively the promoters have the sport in exactly the same position that two of their number were complaining about nearly 4 years ago.

 

There may or may not be reasons why their cannot be an independent body, but there is no reason why there should be the "wall of silence" from the SCB that was being complained about. This is what really annoys me. The SCB are the body delegated by the ACU to have authority over the sport. On vitually every issue the fans are treated with the "wall of silence". Nothing is every explained, nothing ever clarified.It leads to speculation, some it accurate, some not so accurate, and fans be kept in the dark are leaving the sport. It would cost no more money and no more effort for the SCB to be more forthcoming and it would do a lot of good, but it never happens. It just leads me to wonder, who is it at the SCB, or who has control over the SCB that is responsible for this wall of silence?

[bigcatdiary 3,165]

FROM my memory the dispute started because Coventry felt the goalposts were being moved after they had agreed a double spearhead of Andersen and Kaspzrak ... Harris had already been told he could go. Peterborough had signed and paid a big fee to Rye House for Lunus Sundstrom which they might not otherwise had done. Initially at least it certainly had nothing to do with Matt Ford. That particularly dispute between Matt and Allan Trump festered and grew but it wasn't the trigger.

 

And we had that wonderful blueprint for the future from Peter Adams suggesting we change the PL to EL conversion rate which by a strange coincidence mostly affected Peterborough (Sundstrom) and Coventry (Larsen).

 

 

 

There were lots of issues swirling around at that time. Stuart Douglas set out his position in an interview with SS in November 2010 but a number of clubs didn't want to listen to his ideas for stopping spiralling costs and the result is clubs now making bigger losses so we look like losing a lot of top riders in 2014 which is the very thing Duggo was trying to avoid if you read the article.

 

Also when Cook and Douglas were calling for an independent body in May 2010, 6 months before the AGM Trump and Frost never came out at that stage and said "Yeah, great idea", it was only when it suited their purpose they started on about it.

 

We can argue until the cows come home on the rights and wrongs of the winter of discontent, but nobody is going to change their opinion on it at this late stage. I am not saying that Cook, Douglas or anyone else is whiter than white. The issue that collectively the promoters have the sport in exactly the same position that two of their number were complaining about nearly 4 years ago.

 

There may or may not be reasons why their cannot be an independent body, but there is no reason why there should be the "wall of silence" from the SCB that was being complained about. This is what really annoys me. The SCB are the body delegated by the ACU to have authority over the sport. On vitually every issue the fans are treated with the "wall of silence". Nothing is every explained, nothing ever clarified.It leads to speculation, some it accurate, some not so accurate, and fans be kept in the dark are leaving the sport. It would cost no more money and no more effort for the SCB to be more forthcoming and it would do a lot of good, but it never happens. It just leads me to wonder, who is it at the SCB, or who has control over the SCB that is responsible for this wall of silence?

 

 

SCB Members - E Bartlett (Chairman); A Harkess; A F G Noel, G Thompson & C Van Straaten.

 

Anyone there ring any bells.

Edited October 2, 2013 by bigcatdiary

[BritPete 625]

And we had that wonderful blueprint for the future from Peter Adams suggesting we change the PL to EL conversion rate which by a strange coincidence mostly affected Peterborough (Sundstrom) and Coventry (Larsen).

 

Not to mention another rule that suddenly appeared, stating that no team could have more than one

eight point rider, affecting only Coventry, according to my memory, then,hey presto! that rule vanished the following season, thus allowing Ford to include terrible twins in his side. Just coincidence, i'm sure!

Edited October 2, 2013 by BritPete

[G the Bee 639]

And we had that wonderful blueprint for the future from Peter Adams suggesting we change the PL to EL conversion rate which by a strange coincidence mostly affected Peterborough (Sundstrom) and Coventry (Larsen).

 

And only, of course, after Wolves had benefited from the rule with Tai Woffinden and Poole had benefited from the rule with Chris Holder and Darcy Ward in the seasons leading up to it.

[LagutaRacingFan 1,936]

And only, of course, after Wolves had benefited from the rule with Tai Woffinden and Poole had benefited from the rule with Chris Holder and Darcy Ward in the seasons leading up to it.

 

And this after PK was sent to BV to "relax" his average and then end up at Wolves the season after on a low average.

[Bees_Man 454]

Couldn't make it up could you 😉

[E I Addio 15,845]

 

 

I agree.

 

They may have said that 3 years ago, but what have they done in the mean time ?

 

 

 

That is the point. We don't know what they have done because we are not old. We were told via Speedway Star that the Poole -v- Lakeside cancellation was going to be discussed by the SCB on 10th July and since then we have been told nothing. We have not even been told if that actually discussed it as planned or adjourned to another date. Then we have the Kings Lynn -v Peterborough appeal seeping out on the day of the Bellevue-v- Poole meeting and people are bound to think the worst. The whole thing gives the impression of being a big stitch-up and conspiracy. I am not saying it is a stitch-up but that's how it looks from a distance. The SCB could kill all this speculation by a few press releases on their website keeping the fans informed, and it is that lack of information, more than anything else that is sending the sport downhill.

[BWitcher 12,453]

Because they wanted a 45 point limit that would have pushed Belle Vue and Eastbourne out of the EL. Swindon and Poole were also in favour of a 45 point limit but they discussed it rationally without walking out and were bright enough to see the damage that would be done. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation walking out is not the way to do business. The root of it all was that animosity between Ford and Trump. They were washing their dirty linen in public well before the AGM and it was always going to blow up between them for one reason or another.

 

Bottom line is that in over three years nothing but nothing has changed apart from more fans leaving.

 

The way business was done was one promoter who wanted a 45 pt limit, but knew he had a great team lined up for a lower limit anyway, secured the support of the mug promoters who wanted the lower pts limit by agreeing to go with it. I'll give you a lower limit if you help me stitch up the evil team who beat us in the Playoff final.

 

Sadly the mug promoters went along with it and thus are completely to blame for the continued deterioration in the sport and the league.

[G the Bee 639]

Not to mention another rule that suddenly appeared, stating that no team could have more than one

eight point rider, affecting only Coventry, according to my memory, then,hey presto! that rule vanished the following season, thus allowing Ford to include terrible twins in his side. Just coincidence, i'm sure!

 

Then, of course, there was the changing of the rules regarding assessed averages for foreign riders. To ensure that Bees could not have tracked Shamek on an average of 4 (I think that was the figure it was previously).

 

As it stands, I felt that the rules regarding assessed averages and PL to EL conversions had needed looking into for some time. But it was oh so convenient to look into all of these rules in the year when certain clubs did not stand to benefit from them and one team, run by an owner whose face did not fit, did.

 

We all know that Coventry had assembled a team which would have made them dead-cert favourites to retain their EL title in 2011. Therefore it was pretty much in all the other clubs interests to weaken the Bees over the winter so that's what happened. Bees and Peterborough stood alone.

 

The annoying thing is that this was the third time, following a Bees team winning the league, major changes were made to the points limit so it's hardly surprising people sensed a conspiracy.

 

Now, three years on, and irrespective of whether people believe Coventry and Peterborough were right or wrong for making the stand they did, a few things to me are clear:

 

Speedway is still crying out to be run by an independent body with no vested interests

The sport is in a bigger mess now than it has ever been

Coventry, as a club, have never really recovered from those events in the winter of 2010/2011.

 

I wonder if, with the benefit of hindsight, whether certain promotions now wish they had stood alongside Bees and Panthers during the winter of discontent.

[kingbee 510]

FROM my memory the dispute started because Coventry felt the goalposts were being moved after they had agreed a double spearhead of Andersen and Kaspzrak ... Harris had already been told he could go. Peterborough had signed and paid a big fee to Rye House for Lunus Sundstrom which they might not otherwise had done. Initially at least it certainly had nothing to do with Matt Ford. That particularly dispute between Matt and Allan Trump festered and grew but it wasn't the trigger.

It also had something to do with the converted averages changing from prem league riders going into the elite ie Sundstrum to PB and Larson to Cov .The year before Ward had gone to Poole on a low average the they changed the percentage

[E I Addio 15,845]

 

 

The way business was done was one promoter who wanted a 45 pt limit, but knew he had a great team lined up for a lower limit anyway, secured the support of the mug promoters who wanted the lower pts limit by agreeing to go with it. I'll give you a lower limit if you help me stitch up the evil team who beat us in the Playoff final.

 

Sadly the mug promoters went along with it and thus are completely to blame for the continued deterioration in the sport and the league.

 

Belle Vue and Eastbourne said they would go under if they had to build to a 45 point limit so if that measure was passed they would have to leave the league. You call those clubs mug promoters but they know better than you how their income stacks up against their outgoings. You have only got to look at the crowds Eastbourne and BV were getting at that time to see they would have difficulty building with quality riders to 45 points. They struggled enough at 42.

 

Fair enough your opinion that its only those who sided against Cov and Peterborough are completely to blame, as you put it for the continued deterioration in the sport and the League but my view is that the SCB bear a massive responsibility as well. we will have to agree to differ on the SCB's culpability in all this.