TMW 533 Posted November 17, 2013 I don't think it matters what the points limit is. At the end of the day if you want a good no.1 the goodnumber 1's are going to demand, whatever their average. The high scoring reserve who lets face it is onlyhigh scoring because they are on a false average will still demand. If they can score 12/13 on a 3.00 or 5.00 they are not a 3.00 or a 5.00 point rider simples!. It's supply and demand. Averages are massaged to suit the climate and the public are cheated something needs to be done about that aswell and the more the points are lowered the more that will go on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted November 17, 2013 One of the main problems , over the years, since the points limit keeps being reduced is that most teams each year have to rebuild their side to get within the points limit. Gone are the days when fans can relate to the riders year after year. THAT is a major reason that Supporters are dwindling away. It used to be great when you could get to know your own Riders year on year. You can't do that now, chat to them for a Season and very often they are gone. NO continuity - sadly. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv 10,706 Posted November 17, 2013 The continual reduction of the limit is a myth. It has not reduced in the last few years and will only reduce next year if there are a number of additional teams - which will only be because it will be closer to the actual average due to the teams joining from the PL having a EL converted total of under 30 (unless 12+ top liners are added) Also a 50 point limit in the 80s is pretty much the same as todays 42.5 when you factor in the fact that the old 50 limit included bonus points. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bringbackHalifax 238 Posted November 17, 2013 I have to be honest and say I am glad people on here are not promotors as they live in cloud cuckoo land. If you read through the posts there is no agreement on which is the best way forward for the sport. There is no agreement on what makes good speedway. There is no agreement on whether we should accommodate the superstars. There is no agreement on league structures. The only agreement is on the fact it is up to yourself whether you pay your money or not. This is normal when you get a cross section of people with their own opinions. No different in my book to the group of people meeting at the AGM. They too have a choice what to do with their money The truth is I have many more options on what to do with my money and my leisure time than I had 20 years ago but I still choose to go to the speedway. All I want is to see some good close racing and feel as though I have had a good evening out with some like minded people. The rest of the rubbish in speedway has always been around in one form or another. Reality is we didn't have social media to publicize it, so loads of people didn't know about the politics. 12 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldtimer 340 Posted November 17, 2013 Those who consider the RUMOURED points limit to be the death of Speedway, couldn't be more wrong. The most likely cause of the death of Speedway (as we know it)is bankruptcy, surely a reduced points limit would lessen that possibility. Don't they usually wait until Tuesday to give a press release anyway? I'm afraid you have not thought it through, you could have a 21 points limit with 7 riders all on 3 points, but by the end of the year some would still be on 3 and some would be on 9 points or more and some in the middle. The new 9 pointers would be asking for 9 pointer heat leader money and certainly more than the 3 pointers. Will the promoters say to them, you can't be paid more because you are only a 3 pointer Conference rider who just happens to be a heat leader because the League has been weakened so much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foamfence 2,917 Posted November 17, 2013 I'm afraid you have not thought it through, you could have a 21 points limit with 7 riders all on 3 points, but by the end of the year some would still be on 3 and some would be on 9 points or more and some in the middle. The new 9 pointers would be asking for 9 pointer heat leader money and certainly more than the 3 pointers. Will the promoters say to them, you can't be paid more because you are only a 3 pointer Conference rider who just happens to be a heat leader because the League has been weakened so much.They won't be looking at "the end of the year" but more at what they can do to make an affordable start. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldtimer 340 Posted November 17, 2013 He does know. Ever year for the past five seasons or more the points limit has been reduced and every season less fans turn up. Yes, occasionally one club may see a boost in fans due to on-track success or other factors, but on average attendances have reduced across the board for the last several seasons. You are spot on, the Elite League has ended up with a GP rider coming to the tapes against a second string Premier rider who is just there so they can get under the points limit but still keep a couple of star names. It hardly makes for exciting racing to watch riders of vastly different capabilities strung out the length of the straight. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skthecat 90 Posted November 17, 2013 (edited) Surely, if you ride against riders who do 63 second races, you'll probably only achieve 62.5 second races, whilst on the continent, you'll have riders doing sub 61 second races???? So how does this benefit British riders thinking they are top dogs when in reality they wont be when they finally get to race the real top boys?? God help Team GB and Tai will probably be our last ever World Champion if this total dilution of the british top league goes ahead.... The last one out, turn the floodlights off forever... Edited November 17, 2013 by Never to old Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Smith 5,665 Posted November 17, 2013 They won't be looking at "the end of the year" but more at what they can do to make an affordable start. Your right but let's forward 12 months as an example and Craig Cook, Chris Harris, Scott Nicholls etc end up with 9.50 averages they become unemployable to clubs that can afford top stars and then comes the return of Holder, Ward, Iversen etc and we're back to square one after just one season. Lowering the average is a 1 season fix that will fix nothing 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdmc82 2,878 Posted November 17, 2013 12 Elite League Teams 38.00 Limit Only 1 rider over 7.50 Wouldnt mind any of those rules but think you are like Middlo on the wind up Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IW08 3 Posted November 17, 2013 He does know. Ever year for the past five seasons or more the points limit has been reduced and every season less fans turn up. Yes, occasionally one club may see a boost in fans due to on-track success or other factors, but on average attendances have reduced across the board for the last several seasons. the simple of fact of the matter is... the balance of mathematics is plain wrong. Yes, clubs have their costs to cover and all that but combine gradual increases in admission every other year or so... with the fact that the overall standard of the Elite League esp is being "lowered"... fans put two and two together, and decide that the expense is not worth it. I mean, the rate things are going... how long before we see the first speedway club charging £20 admission for adults?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skthecat 90 Posted November 17, 2013 Your right but let's forward 12 months as an example and Craig Cook, Chris Harris, Scott Nicholls etc end up with 9.50 averages they become unemployable to clubs that can afford top stars and then comes the return of Holder, Ward, Iversen etc and we're back to square one after just one season. Lowering the average is a 1 season fix that will fix nothing If this points limit is actually going to happen (38) it can only work for one season. The points limit for 2015 would have to rise to 45/46 if you had to then reintroduce the likes of Holder/Ward/Etc, there averages would have to be massaged upwards to align them with the falsely high averages of the 2014 season under challenged, now 9.5/10.00 averaged real world averages of around 6.00/7.00 ers, that hey would only achieve in the 2015 re vitalised/multi country league.... If this points limit is actually going to happen (38) it can only work for one season. The points limit for 2015 would have to rise to 45/46 if you had to then reintroduce the likes of Holder/Ward/Etc, there averages would have to be massaged upwards to align them with the falsely high averages of the 2014 season under challenged, now 9.5/10.00 averaged real world averages of around 6.00/7.00 ers, that hey would only achieve in the 2015 re vitalised/multi country league.... That post got a way from me a bit!!! But I think you may get the gist of it.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
screm 8,057 Posted November 17, 2013 Don't they usually wait until Tuesday to give a press release anyway? Over the last couple of years the BSPA have put out a short statement on the Sunday evening at end of AGM business. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv 10,706 Posted November 17, 2013 If this points limit is actually going to happen (38) it can only work for one season. The points limit for 2015 would have to rise to 45/46 if you had to then reintroduce the likes of Holder/Ward/Etc, there averages would have to be massaged upwards to align them with the falsely high averages of the 2014 season under challenged, now 9.5/10.00 averaged real world averages of around 6.00/7.00 ers, that hey would only achieve in the 2015 re vitalised/multi country league.... That post got a way from me a bit!!! But I think you may get the gist of it.... agreed a points limit reduction is only a one season solution and only when the number of teams alters. A norm of 42.5 is about right and if conditions allow trying to tempt a few higher end riders back in future then 45 or do would be a way forward but again only for one season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John Leslie 3,213 Posted November 17, 2013 (edited) He does know. Ever year for the past five seasons or more the points limit has been reduced and every season less fans turn up. This is the kind of post that makes fans look stupid. The points limit has been reduced every year for the past five years, and every season less fans turn up???? Is that so? OK let's check that. 2008 limit 38.85 2009 limit INCREASED to 39.90 2010 limit INCREASED to 40.95 2011 limit reduced to 40.00 but with an increased number of teams so effectively limit not reduced. 2012 limit INCREASED to 41.00 2013 limit INCREASED to 42.50 So if there is a correlation between points limit and dropping crowds, the correlation must be that INCREASING the points limit causes less fans to come. Edited November 17, 2013 by John Leslie 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
