When Will The New Race Format Be Out & How Can Teams Name Riders When They Don't Know It?

[jeff 60]

Apologies if this has already been discussed but when the new race format is known then I assume this will only be used in the Elite League. As a different format will be used by the Premier and National Leagues, won't this mean that the rider average conversion factors between the leagues will need to change too? I can see this being tricky to calculate.

 

Jo Jacobs could have a high average for Mildenhall, his next highest league average could be for Wolves and his lowest average forKings Lynn - so his individual conversion factor from Premier to Elite would then be negative.

 

Clearly I need to get out more................Nurse!

[E I Addio 15,845]

oh no

 

 

My thoughts exactly

 

:D

[orion 7,615]

 

 

Wow, i need to get up really early to catch you out.

 

EVERYONE will know the format after the season starts which is my whole point.

Just a clue, as i know you need plenty. We are talking about PRE season (that is before the season starts just for you). No news of a format yet.

 

Lets face it - it could be something simple as not wanting to inform the paying public (really? the BSPA not inform the public?? i mean really?? ) OR something more complex like an issue with the format.

With it being SOO close to the season start my money is on the former.

Either way ................ it could be either.

But i guess you wouldn't think (yes Orion THINK) that would you.

What are talking about ? you said that the reason format was not coming out was to stop people making race cards up .so explain to everyone what is there to stop people looking at the updates on the very first match and then making a copy ? .

 

Or are you saying that it will only stop people pre season from printing race cards ?

[stevebrum 6,823]

What are talking about ? you said that the reason format was not coming out was to stop people making race cards up .so explain to everyone what is there to stop people looking at the updates on the very first match and then making a copy ? .

 

Or are you saying that it will only stop people pre season from printing race cards ?

 

 

I think its clear what i`m saying, but you got there eventually. Well done.

[Phlipphlopp 3,913]

 

 

I think its clear what i`m saying, but you got there eventually. Well done.

What you say is never clear. Never has been due to the fact its been a load of bull. And no doubt , learning from past experience , you will be wrong about everything again. You've been caught out too many times. Dont just ask me , its common knowledge.

[Hodgy 976]

What, the below quote?

If it is this then the mentioned queries have been in speedway for 50+ years so yes, I'm not getting what rules you need to know as these thing obviously haven't bothered you much before. All of those will always be factors in speedway, they're not gonna go away regardless of any rules and formats.

As I say, just enjoy what we all do know. SPEEDWAY

No, I don't ever recall declaring novices must fill the reserve berths in the top tier before now. In previous years should a reserve surpass their starting average they would move into the main body of a team with a lesser performer swapping places. That cannot happen in this structure. We have never had a situation where the heat leaders cannot race against the opposition reserves. Unfortunately injuries will happen in this sport and more likely to occur with lesser experienced riders. We now have a situation where a top rider can only ride against 5 of the opposition, as opposed to 7, for a reserve that number is 4 opposing riders - that's a major change from your simplicity. So how do we substitute the reserves? Likewise if a member of the top 5 is ruled out how do we cover their absence? The past 50 years would have been a reserve takes their remaining rides. If certain riders must not meet each other the options are very limited.

 

Some of the assumed solutions are very open to tactical manipulation - a subject that has previously created pages of angry debate. Averages (albeit the catalyst for past misdemeanours) will be false as they will not be based on equality. Guests / RR as a result of fixture clashes, injuries, doubling, trebling or continental commitments will be in abundance - much more than previous seasons that have disappointed punters immensely.

 

In my opinion they have really screwed up with this change. You now have a combined EL and NL but if you are fine with that, good on ya. I'll stick to the PL where they all meet each other and a max is a max.

 

Enjoy...

[Daniel Smith 5,666]

No, I don't ever recall declaring novices must fill the reserve berths in the top tier before now.

I believe there was a period in the 80's when the reserves were filled with unexperienced 2nd half riders so that not true

 

In previous years should a reserve surpass their starting average they would move into the main body of a team with a lesser performer swapping places. That cannot happen in this structure.

In the brilliant Premier League the reserves spent the whole season at reserve not many years ago until promoters complained that Woffy was to good

 

We have never had a situation where the heat leaders cannot race against the opposition reserves.

That should be seen as a positive should it, less strung out heats

 

Unfortunately injuries will happen in this sport and more likely to occur with lesser experienced riders.

Nothing has changed over the years of speedway. The majority of the time the reserves have always been the last experience, crash loads from over trying and trundle round at the back. Now they're not going to have to do that against the better rider's as much. Again, a positive

 

We now have a situation where a top rider can only ride against 5 of the opposition, as opposed to 7, for a reserve that number is 4 opposing riders - that's a major change from your simplicity.

Again, a positive as it should prove to produce more competitive racing

 

 

So how do we substitute the reserves?

During a meeting it's your other reserve or a blank space in the heat so no change. Before a meeting it has to be another member from the Draft List

 

Likewise if a member of the top 5 is ruled out how do we cover their absence? The past 50 years would have been a reserve takes their remaining rides. If certain riders must not meet each other the options are very limited.

Most are saying this remains the same, but I believe it will be other rider's from the top 5 which again will make for more competitive racing

 

Some of the assumed solutions are very open to tactical manipulation - a subject that has previously created pages of angry debate. Averages (albeit the catalyst for past misdemeanours) will be false as they will not be based on equality. Guests / RR as a result of fixture clashes, injuries, doubling, trebling or continental commitments will be in abundance - much more than previous seasons that have disappointed punters immensely.

This is the fault of British Speedway as a whole with the greed of needing to operate every day in the week. As I've mentioned on a previous thread, the UK Elite should be Monday - Thursday, Swedish Elite Tuesday, Danish Elite Wednesday, Polish Elite Sunday leaving GP, SEC, practice sessions and qualifiers to Friday and Saturday but we wouldn't have that so we'll have to live with it.

 

In my opinion they have really screwed up with this change. You now have a combined EL and NL but if you are fine with that, good on ya. I'll stick to the PL where they all meet each other and a max is a max.

Enjoy...

And there lies another positive, we get to make a choice on what we want to watch and yes, I'm very positive on the new changes. You enjoy the PL and have a nice 2014

[rossi 7]

 

 

The rules haven't been forthcoming for several seasons now.

Yes they have . They are always , every year, on the SCB website under the 'Regulations' tab

[E I Addio 15,845]

No, I don't ever recall declaring novices must fill the reserve berths in the top tier before now. In previous years should a reserve surpass their starting average they would move into the main body of a team with a lesser performer swapping places. That cannot happen in this structure. We have never had a situation where the heat leaders cannot race against the opposition reserves. Unfortunately injuries will happen in this sport and more likely to occur with lesser experienced riders. We now have a situation where a top rider can only ride against 5 of the opposition, as opposed to 7, for a reserve that number is 4 opposing riders - that's a major change from your simplicity. So how do we substitute the reserves? Likewise if a member of the top 5 is ruled out how do we cover their absence? The past 50 years would have been a reserve takes their remaining rides. If certain riders must not meet each other the options are very limited.

 

Some of the assumed solutions are very open to tactical manipulation - a subject that has previously created pages of angry debate. Averages (albeit the catalyst for past misdemeanours) will be false as they will not be based on equality. Guests / RR as a result of fixture clashes, injuries, doubling, trebling or continental commitments will be in abundance - much more than previous seasons that have disappointed punters immensely.

 

In my opinion they have really screwed up with this change. You now have a combined EL and NL but if you are fine with that, good on ya. I'll stick to the PL where they all meet each other and a max is a max.

 

Enjoy...

 

 

With respect mate, you are losing sight of the fact that the object of the exercise is to save money. All of us would like to bona fide reserves riding in the top league, but the reality is, for about the hundredth time, if the sport carried on as it did last year certain clubs would be closing their doors. So, now the decision has been taken to include NL riders at reserve we are not going to get an ideal set-up and there are going to be things about it that we don't like, but its either that or a decimated top league.

 

The other side of the coin, and the positive aspect which people are forgetting is that we are now going to have more league matches, and we have got rid of the utterly ridiculous arrangement where teams met some opponents twice in a season and others once. To my mind that was one of the daftest ideas ever to hit speedway, and qualification for the play-offs could never be said to be a level playing field while that arrangement existed.

 

So what does the paying punter know he can look forward to ? Well, we have sides with certain drawbacks arising from NL reserves but we don't yet know all the details so it could work out better than some think or it could be worse. We simply don't know and even if the heat format is published in advance we still won't really be able to make a valued judgment until a few weeks into the season ( apart from those who are determined to find fault whatever) but what we do know is that there will be more meetings and although there will still be some weeks without meetings it won't be anything like as bad as last year where at time we had weeks on end with no racing. In addition we know all teams will meet each other twice which is what many fans have been calling for. So on balance I would say we are likely to see an improvement over last year.

 

If you are happy with PL racing then good for you, but as a primarily EL supporter I am pleased to be looking forward to getting back to a full season of racing with a 10 team league. There may be downsides we have to swallow but better that than the gaps in the fixture list we had last year.

[Hodgy 976]

I believe there was a period in the 80's when the reserves were filled with unexperienced 2nd half riders so that not true

 

In the brilliant Premier League the reserves spent the whole season at reserve not many years ago until promoters complained that Woffy was to good

 

That should be seen as a positive should it, less strung out heats

 

Nothing has changed over the years of speedway. The majority of the time the reserves have always been the last experience, crash loads from over trying and trundle round at the back. Now they're not going to have to do that against the better rider's as much. Again, a positive

 

Again, a positive as it should prove to produce more competitive racing

 

During a meeting it's your other reserve or a blank space in the heat so no change. Before a meeting it has to be another member from the Draft List

 

Most are saying this remains the same, but I believe it will be other rider's from the top 5 which again will make for more competitive racing

 

This is the fault of British Speedway as a whole with the greed of needing to operate every day in the week. As I've mentioned on a previous thread, the UK Elite should be Monday - Thursday, Swedish Elite Tuesday, Danish Elite Wednesday, Polish Elite Sunday leaving GP, SEC, practice sessions and qualifiers to Friday and Saturday but we wouldn't have that so we'll have to live with it.

 

And there lies another positive, we get to make a choice on what we want to watch and yes, I'm very positive on the new changes. You enjoy the PL and have a nice 2014

Thanks for response. I guessed I might be wasting my time - we will just agree to disagree and watch this space.

With respect mate, you are losing sight of the fact that the object of the exercise is to save money. All of us would like to bona fide reserves riding in the top league, but the reality is, for about the hundredth time, if the sport carried on as it did last year certain clubs would be closing their doors. So, now the decision has been taken to include NL riders at reserve we are not going to get an ideal set-up and there are going to be things about it that we don't like, but its either that or a decimated top league.

 

The other side of the coin, and the positive aspect which people are forgetting is that we are now going to have more league matches, and we have got rid of the utterly ridiculous arrangement where teams met some opponents twice in a season and others once. To my mind that was one of the daftest ideas ever to hit speedway, and qualification for the play-offs could never be said to be a level playing field while that arrangement existed.

 

So what does the paying punter know he can look forward to ? Well, we have sides with certain drawbacks arising from NL reserves but we don't yet know all the details so it could work out better than some think or it could be worse. We simply don't know and even if the heat format is published in advance we still won't really be able to make a valued judgment until a few weeks into the season ( apart from those who are determined to find fault whatever) but what we do know is that there will be more meetings and although there will still be some weeks without meetings it won't be anything like as bad as last year where at time we had weeks on end with no racing. In addition we know all teams will meet each other twice which is what many fans have been calling for. So on balance I would say we are likely to see an improvement over last year.

 

If you are happy with PL racing then good for you, but as a primarily EL supporter I am pleased to be looking forward to getting back to a full season of racing with a 10 team league. There may be downsides we have to swallow but better that than the gaps in the fixture list we had last year.

With respect, I am not losing sight of anything. All we would like to know are the rules surrounding the format (for the umpteenth time). If you and a few others aren't bothered, good on ya, that's your prerogative. With such a history of poor management and rash unthought through decisions I would like to know what I am buying in to. Some riders are now concerned with a potential loss of earnings. The fact that we are so close to the season with still far too many assumptions leads me to believe they are struggling with it. Otherwise it would have been communicated weeks ago. Oh no sorry, I've just remembered its because so many will make their own race cards if the format is released too soon. LOL

[g13webb 4,254]

All the bickering on this thread is of no consequence, the facts remains we all want the same thing, i.e. exciting racing. The problems highlighted on here could all be avoided if the BSPA got their house in order and had some form of structured approach to new rules.

 

Yeah I know times are hard and clubs are feeling the strain, but this hasn't happens over night, and the finances should have been addressed in a program of events. I'm of the impression this is a jolt reaction in an attempt to save some promotion money, and using a protected race format for the draft riders has created many unseen headaches.

 

If New rules were announced 12 months in advance of activation, it would give everybody the foresight to iron out any unseen problems, way before they come into force. In situations like we have now, the time is running out fast and we still wait on the format. If, and I mean a big IF, this new idea was announced now, to begin in 2015 we could have used an interim method this year, without having to change the format, to give the BSPA longer to sort out any problems, so come next year, everybody, that's Riders, Promoters, Supporters and Media would know the format well in advance of the season start. Situation like this would then be a thing of the past.

Edited February 21, 2014 by GRW123

[Brummie Boy 61]

If New rules were announced 12 months in advance of activation, it would give everybody the foresight to iron out any unseen problems, way before they come into force. In situations like we have now, the time is running out fast and we still wait on the format. I, and I mean a big IF, this new idea was announced now, to begin in 2015 we could have used an interim method this year to give the BSPA longer to sort out any problems, so come next year, everybody, that's riders, Promoters, supporters and media would know the format well in advance of the season start. Situation like this would then be a thing of the past.

 

GRW this has all been suggested umpteen times before and the BSPA has never learnt anything by it mistakes. Unfortunately, the BSPA seem to subscribe to the belief they can just carry on making the rules up as they go a long and forward planning is not a concept they are familiar with.

[stevebrum 6,823]

What you say is never clear. Never has been due to the fact its been a load of bull. And no doubt , learning from past experience , you will be wrong about everything again. You've been caught out too many times. Dont just ask me , its common knowledge.

 

 

Crystal clear. Shame that you seem to insult anyone for getting things wrong, which is a lot of people.

You must take great pride in the amount of people that wrote of Wolves chances last season.

 

I had forgotten your insults but i am glad i am not to be disappointed.

[TesarRacing 1,825]

The point is people should know they are entitled to know they are the paying customer does MICKY MOUSE strike a cord Steve.?

 

The customer will know when he/she pays unless you are referring to season ticket holders in which case if you are that concerned about the new race format, you wouldn't buy one, would you?

[E I Addio 15,845]

 

. If, and I mean a big IF, this new idea was announced now, to begin in 2015 we could have used an interim method this year, without having to change the format, to give the BSPA longer to sort out any problems, so come next year, everybody, that's Riders, Promoters, Supporters and Media would know the format well in advance of the season start

 

Yes, and it would also give us another year of clubs losing big money and fans only getting 14 home meetings in 6 months, and another year of racing some opposing teams twice and some only once. Another year of certain clubs not having enough money to pay their riders, and a high chance that certain clubs wouldn't be coming to the tapes in 2014, one of which may well have been your own club, Kings Lynn , since Buster Chapman was one of those claiming he couldn't afford to run more than 14 home meetings with costs running at the level they were. We have already lost Peterborough, few people doubt that others would have gone if drastic measures were not taken and taken quickly..

Irrespective of whether the new arrangement is a good idea or a bad one the one thing they couldn't do was to hang around for another year before attempting to cut costs in a big way.