Objects Of Ridicule ?

[ten years after 3]

I recently had a chat with an old friend who is sports mad, like me. We got around to speedway as is my way, and although he has been to meetings, he isn't a supporter as such.

 

When we got round to who rides for who ( whom ? ) etc he laughed out loud when I tried to explain the way riders can ride for two different teams, in two different leagues, at the same time.

 

To compound the matter even further, when I said riders can also ride for different teams in DIFFERENT countries....at the same time, he nearly fell out his seat. I heard later he had passed the information around and got the same response from everyone. " You must be joking. "

 

 

I recently had a chat with an old friend who is sports mad, like me. We got around to speedway as is my way, and although he has been to meetings, he isn't a supporter as such.

 

When we got round to who rides for who ( whom ? ) etc he laughed out loud when I tried to explain the way riders can ride for two different teams, in two different leagues, at the same time.

 

To compound the matter even further, when I said riders can also ride for different teams in DIFFERENT countries....at the same time, he nearly fell out his seat. I heard later he had passed the information around and got the same response from everyone. " You must be joking. "

 

You know what, when you look at it like that, he has a point. It IS farcical. What other sport in the world allows that to happen? Imagine footballers say, one plays for Man. Utd. AND plays for Reading Town AND plays for Galatasary. And he's not alone, not by a long chalk. It looks utterly preposterous. It's little wonder we don't get the credo we actually richly deserve.

 

To those of us who are supporters, we see nothing wrong with that, but to outsiders, we must look like the provincial aunt Sallies who are just playing at being " a sport " in the accepted sense. We have little credibility.

 

What to do about it ? Not a lot I fear. Being the dangerous sport it is there's not a lot of riders to go round, hence the current setup, but my goodness, it does look plain daft.

You know what, when you look at it like that, he has a point. It IS farcical. What other sport in the world allows that to happen? Imagine footballers say, one plays for Man. Utd. AND plays for Reading Town AND plays for Galatasary. And he's not alone, not by a long chalk. It looks utterly preposterous. It's little wonder we don't get the credo we actually richly deserve.

 

To those of us who are supporters, we see nothing wrong with that, but to outsiders, we must look like the provincial aunt Sallies who are just playing at being " a sport " in the accepted sense. We have little credibility.

 

What to do about it ? Not a lot I fear. Being the dangerous sport it is there's not a lot of riders to go round, hence the current setup, but my goodness, it does look plain daft.

 

Nothing wrong with Aunt Sallie especially if you come from Oxford.

[ten years after 3]

Do you think that riders with multiple team in the UK has in someway assisted in the downfall of our sport? What I mean is when clubs are looking to fill team places, rather than pick a kid, they go for the quick fix option of a rider from another club wanting to double up/down? Therefore closing one of the doors that younger riders or the less experienced riders would have/could have used to get onto the club/league ladder....??

Oxford proved this point in 2005

[The White Knight 9,039]

Why is it farcical? Not everything is like football, and playing for different teams is not entirely without precedent in other sports, or even within football for that matter.

 

Cricketers can play for several teams during the same year - county cricket, provincial/state cricket, IPL, grade cricket, before you even take national sides into account. I believe table tennis players also go around playing for multiple teams in different national leagues at the same time, and happens in motor racing as well (also less than it used to).

 

Even in football there are examples of players competing in summer and winter leagues for different teams, albeit not at the same time, but you can certainly find players in the lower echelons of non-league football who'll play for Saturday and Sunday teams.

 

Riding in multiple competitions is a practical necessity in speedway to make a living, and until the sport can pay sufficiently for a rider to commit to a single competition, then the situation is not going to change. Even before foreign leagues came along, riders took guest and open bookings or disappeared off to the longtrack/grasstrack scene to supplement their earnings. Until speedway really wants to run a serious Champions League-type competition, then I don't really see the problem.

 

That is the end of the argument as far as I am concerned. You've hit the nail on the head Humphrey.

 

I think the doubling up rule needs looking at, especially at the better PL league riders... The first thing that concerns me is that the premier league is no longer ability wise further away from the elite league as it should or meant to be.....

 

The route of a speedway rider should take is:

 

MDL/AJL ETC →NATIONAL LEAGUE → PREMIER LEAGUE → ELITE LEAGUE

 

What happens now is/has turned the Premier League into almost a seperate organisation, no longer the 2nd division in a league set structure, more like Rugby League next to Rugby Union, except the sport rules have no significant differences.. The Premier league now seems choc a block full of 2nd rate foreigners, mostly Danes/Swedes/Aussies/Americans that are at best, 2nd string Elite League riders... And a handfull of youngish British riders that are heading upwards..

Once doubling down was allowed, the rot set in, in the sense the prem league became this seperate entity, the prem league is no longer the stepping stone to the Elite League.. Very few kids are given enough time to develop from reserve, and they dont cut it within a hanful of meetings, they are booted out in favour of a Jonny Foreigner who needs flying in.. Like I say; its no longer a true stepping stone the Elite League racing....

 

Not a lot to argue with here - you are right.

[Ray Stadia 1,071]

 

Little tip. The home team wears red and blue helmet covers, the away team white and yellow. You see those numbers they have on their backs? Funnily enough you can match them up in the programme, so filling it in neatly shouldn't be a problem.

 

Sure some of the names may have changed, but I have never, ever been to a meeting and not known. It's either been announced or if for some reason I've arrived late, just ask someone else.

 

More needless nitpicking.

'Some' of the names may have changed? I think you will find at some meetings 'many' have changed. It may sound like nit-picking, but many forum members complain about team member inconsistency. How long will they remain fans before calling it a day? Perhaps it is a bit like the old Eric Morecombe gag 'all of the team will be riding for the Club, but not necessarily at the same meeting'.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Ray Stadia

[billybikespeedway 75]

Imagine a rule in speedway where a rider can only go on certain parts of the track at certain times and that is dependant on the position of the opposing riders.

Please Someone Delete This post Before someone from the BSPA reads It

[Ray Stadia 1,071]

Imagine a rule in speedway where a rider can only go on certain parts of the track at certain times and that is dependant on the position of the opposing riders.

 

Please Someone Delete This post Before someone from the BSPA reads It

Moto Ball! A great interval entertainment! I remember seeing it in the MCN years ago, 'spot the ball' contest. Never seen it advertised though. Is it still going?

[Humphrey Appleby 13,974]

'Some' of the names may have changed? I think you will find at some meetings 'many' have changed.

Yep, but how different is that to football? In fact, in how many sports are the competitors not expected to change from match-to-match?

 

I'd agree it's more annoying in speedway because of the programme and heat format, but a lot of that could potentially be resolved with an electronic scoreboard or even smartphone apps.

[albyhere 51]

To those who responded to my original post and actually read the thing, and actually got the point, I thank you. To the rest who goodness knows where in left field they reside, with their personal and sarcastic non sequiturs, let me put it in simple terms, just for those who may be a wee bit hard of thinking.

 

I was referring to TEAM riding. Not individuals. Each rider can and does take bookings where he can get them, and good luck to them. I was talking about how a rider could turn out for one TEAM one night ( or day, ) then the very next night, turn out for another TEAM, in a different lLEAGUE. Then the very next night, turn out for yet another TEAM in, incredibly, another COUNTRY altogether. Now translate that to a footballer or whatever in your TEAM and ask yourself how it would look. As stated originally, if perhaps say, Rooney turned out for Man. U. one game, then another night for Reading, then another day for Galatasary. A farce no ?

 

My point was that it loses our sport credibility in the eyes of the general sporting public. There is, despite certain isolated cases quoted here, NO other sport where this happens to the extent that it does in speedway. Be it football, used here as an EXAMPLE, or rugby, or any TEAM sport you can think of.

 

I totally agree with the comments that it is one of the reasons why we have a dearth of home grown talent. Promoters just take anyone almost who can ride a bike to a certain degree of competence, rather than risk nurturing a young BRITISH rider. And unfortunately, this is with the blessing of the ruling body of the sport.

 

Oh and by the way, I was asked how it works.

[E I Addio 15,851]

One of my most memorable moments from the EL on Sky was a top rider being interviewed after a critical heat in a close match and saying "I have absolutely no idea what the score is...." At that moment I realised that the only difference between individual metings and team meetings is that the rider's points are added together at the end. This single event is one of the main reasons my interest in league speedway has evaporated - if the team members themselves don't care, then why should the fans?

 

I have on DVD an interview with Stuart Robson after a critical heat in a close match in which he said "I have absolutely no idea what the score is." The reason was he had been out 3 times in about 5 or 6 heats and checking the score was low on his list of priorities when he had probably no more than 7 or 8 minutes between races to get himself and his bike sorted and re-focussed on his next ride before going out again. If you had any idea at all what goes on in the pits you would know why the riders, more often than not, don't necessarily know what the team score is at a particular moment in a match.

Edited December 3, 2013 by E I Addio

[Ray Stadia 1,071]

 

I have on DVD an interview with Stuart Robson after a critical heat in a close match in which he said "I have absolutely no idea what the score is." The reason was he had been out 3 times in about 5 or 6 heats and checking the score was low on his list of priorities when he had probably no more than 7 or 8 minutes between races to get himself and his bike sorted and re-focussed on his next ride before going out again. If you had any idea at all what goes on in the pits you would know why the riders, more often than not, don't necessarily know what the team score is at a particular moment in a match.

I suppose at the end of the day it is the captain and team manager's responsibility to keep check on the score and if need be, relay the info to the riders as necessary.

[SCB 6]

'Some' of the names may have changed? I think you will find at some meetings 'many' have changed. It may sound like nit-picking, but many forum members complain about team member inconsistency. How long will they remain fans before calling it a day? Perhaps it is a bit like the old Eric Morecombe gag 'all of the team will be riding for the Club, but not necessarily at the same meeting'.

Yet people want squads so different names. Or moan the GP is the same old riders while complaining that in league speedway the names change too often.

 

To those who responded to my original post and actually read the thing, and actually got the point, I thank you. To the rest who goodness knows where in left field they reside, with their personal and sarcastic non sequiturs, let me put it in simple terms, just for those who may be a wee bit hard of thinking.

 

I was referring to TEAM riding. Not individuals. Each rider can and does take bookings where he can get them, and good luck to them. I was talking about how a rider could turn out for one TEAM one night ( or day, ) then the very next night, turn out for another TEAM, in a different lLEAGUE. Then the very next night, turn out for yet another TEAM in, incredibly, another COUNTRY altogether. Now translate that to a footballer or whatever in your TEAM and ask yourself how it would look. As stated originally, if perhaps say, Rooney turned out for Man. U. one game, then another night for Reading, then another day for Galatasary. A farce no ?

 

My point was that it loses our sport credibility in the eyes of the general sporting public. There is, despite certain isolated cases quoted here, NO other sport where this happens to the extent that it does in speedway. Be it football, used here as an EXAMPLE, or rugby, or any TEAM sport you can think of.

 

I totally agree with the comments that it is one of the reasons why we have a dearth of home grown talent. Promoters just take anyone almost who can ride a bike to a certain degree of competence, rather than risk nurturing a young BRITISH rider. And unfortunately, this is with the blessing of the ruling body of the sport.

 

Oh and by the way, I was asked how it works.

And imagine Rooney had to buy his own football. And his own kit. And imagine if he rode a bike instead of kicked a ball. It's a different sport so it's irrelevant.

[Ray Stadia 1,071]

Yet people want squads so different names. Or moan the GP is the same old riders while complaining that in league speedway the names change too often.

 

And imagine Rooney had to buy his own football. And his own kit. And imagine if he rode a bike instead of kicked a ball. It's a different sport so it's irrelevant.

Regarding the first line, do people moan about the same riders in the GP? I am surprised. After all, to get the end result the whole series needs to be completed with all those that started, barring injury and wild cards. As for squads, you would know your own team, 1 to 16 or whatever. And there would be more chance of the team shown in the programme for the meeting, matching what was 'dished up'. Perhaps those that did not ride in the main event could ride in the second half? Now that's another issue!

[BWitcher 12,453]

To those who responded to my original post and actually read the thing, and actually got the point, I thank you. To the rest who goodness knows where in left field they reside, with their personal and sarcastic non sequiturs, let me put it in simple terms, just for those who may be a wee bit hard of thinking.

 

I was referring to TEAM riding. Not individuals. Each rider can and does take bookings where he can get them, and good luck to them. I was talking about how a rider could turn out for one TEAM one night ( or day, ) then the very next night, turn out for another TEAM, in a different lLEAGUE. Then the very next night, turn out for yet another TEAM in, incredibly, another COUNTRY altogether. Now translate that to a footballer or whatever in your TEAM and ask yourself how it would look. As stated originally, if perhaps say, Rooney turned out for Man. U. one game, then another night for Reading, then another day for Galatasary. A farce no ?

 

My point was that it loses our sport credibility in the eyes of the general sporting public. There is, despite certain isolated cases quoted here, NO other sport where this happens to the extent that it does in speedway. Be it football, used here as an EXAMPLE, or rugby, or any TEAM sport you can think of.

 

I totally agree with the comments that it is one of the reasons why we have a dearth of home grown talent. Promoters just take anyone almost who can ride a bike to a certain degree of competence, rather than risk nurturing a young BRITISH rider. And unfortunately, this is with the blessing of the ruling body of the sport.

 

Oh and by the way, I was asked how it works.

 

We read your fantasy conversation. You can find plenty of sites for fiction around the internet.

[E I Addio 15,851]

To those who responded to my original post and actually read the thing, and actually got the point, I thank you. To the rest who goodness knows where in left field they reside, with their personal and sarcastic non sequiturs, let me put it in simple terms, just for those who may be a wee bit hard of thinking.

 

I was referring to TEAM riding. Not individuals. Each rider can and does take bookings where he can get them, and good luck to them. I was talking about how a rider could turn out for one TEAM one night ( or day, ) then the very next night, turn out for another TEAM, in a different lLEAGUE. Then the very next night, turn out for yet another TEAM in, incredibly, another COUNTRY altogether. Now translate that to a footballer or whatever in your TEAM and ask yourself how it would look. As stated originally, if perhaps say, Rooney turned out for Man. U. one game, then another night for Reading, then another day for Galatasary. A farce no ?

 

My point was that it loses our sport credibility in the eyes of the general sporting public. There is, despite certain isolated cases quoted here, NO other sport where this happens to the extent that it does in speedway. Be it football, used here as an EXAMPLE, or rugby, or any TEAM sport you can think of.

 

I totally agree with the comments that it is one of the reasons why we have a dearth of home grown talent. Promoters just take anyone almost who can ride a bike to a certain degree of competence, rather than risk nurturing a young BRITISH rider. And unfortunately, this is with the blessing of the ruling body of the sport.

 

Oh and by the way, I was asked how it works.

 

How precisely does it lose the sport credibility ? Are you not aware that a cricketer can play for his county in one league and club in another? What difference does it make if he does his job and entertains the crowd.?

 

The other thing as John Leslie pointed out is the reality of this conversation with a "friend" who apparently knows about sport and has been to speedway meetings but until your "conversation " with him he apparently never questioned how come so many foreign riders were in the meeting in front of a crowd that obviously couldn't pay vast sums of money. And as a sports fan he wouldn't ever have watched it on Sky and got the gist of how it all works would he.?

 

 

I have discussed the sport with a number of general sports fans and can honestly say the only thing they have found particularly odd is the T/R rule. None of them thought it odd that riders race for different teams in different countries.

[Elephantman 196]

A friend asked if I knew a plumber who could look at his boiler.

 

I said "Why don't you try Bob from down the road, he always does any plumbing I need".

He said "Isn't that a bit silly? After all he's your plumber. Wouldn't it appear ludicrous if he's working for you and then doing another job for me in a different street"

I said "No. Working for me on a Monday shouldn't stop him doing an entirely unrelated job for you on Tuesday. He's just a self employed contractor and they're his own tools"

He said "Yes. you're right"

 

 

He said "I'm glad we've had this conversation"

I said "Ah, but have we really had this conversation? Or is it in your mind?"

He said "What do you mean?"

I said "Well, I've heard that sometimes that people make up pretend conversations, just to post on the internet to try to make a point that doesn't really have any substance"

Your posts really are quite objectionable and usually are an abject lesson in cynicism. The original post is typical of the questions that many people new to speedway often raise. I guess like many of the people who liked your posts, you would not know that as the chances of meeting someone new to the sport at a typical speedway meeting are slim to zero! I wonder if it is the sport that puts people off or some of the supporters?