waiheke1 4,295 Posted January 12, 2014 i did some statsistical analsisis on this late last year, (http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=75014) taking into account performances in the GPs, domestic leagues, SWC, SEC and national championships. The top five were: 1 Jaroslaw Hampel 10.73 2 Tai Woffinden 10.73 3 Niels K Iversen 10.43 4 Emil Sayfutdinon 10.36 5 Darcy Ward 10.09 without having done that analysis, i'd have said Tai by a whisker from Emil, with a group comprising Hampel, NKI, Ward and Holder in no particular order a small way back Darcy Ward the most talented, Tai the most consistent and luckiest. i really don't see how you can label Tai lucky, despite your explanation. Surely both Hampel and NKI could be said to be luckier (in that they achieved rostrum spots due to injuries to others, and didn't suffer any major injuries themselves), and more consistent (when you look at performances in all events). I don't disagree with Darcy being labelled the most talented, and he would be my pick for World Champ this year. But as SCB points out, its going to be one hell of a battle with Tai, Emil, NKI, Holder, Hampel and potentially Nicki and Greg in the mix as well. Staying relatively injury free again is going to be a big factor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason.C 111 Posted January 12, 2014 What you say is true, I still stand by what I say in that tai was lucky not pick up a more severe injury though. He could quite easily have done what holder or Emil did. But he didn't and he was far better than nki and jarek at the end. Where nki and jarek gained from others misfortunes, they didn't do the business in the early stages like tai had done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
van wolfswinkel 635 Posted January 12, 2014 Tai Woffy the world champion then not much to chose between Ward Iversen Sayfutdinov Hampel Holder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebrum 6,827 Posted January 12, 2014 am I the only one who think this subject is becoming crazy? what is it with injuries? could of? would of? riders EVERY year miss out on injury!.....the whole darcy thing is pathetic Careful, you will have the Pooleites insisting that Darcy is still the best rider Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted January 12, 2014 think poolites getting mixed up with elite rules....to be world champion, you have to come 1st........... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HenryW 1,178 Posted January 12, 2014 i did some statsistical analsisis on this late last year, (http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=75014) taking into account performances in the GPs, domestic leagues, SWC, SEC and national championships. The top five were: 1 Jaroslaw Hampel 10.73 2 Tai Woffinden 10.73 3 Niels K Iversen 10.43 4 Emil Sayfutdinon 10.36 5 Darcy Ward 10.09 without having done that analysis, i'd have said Tai by a whisker from Emil, with a group comprising Hampel, NKI, Ward and Holder in no particular order a small way back i really don't see how you can label Tai lucky, despite your explanation. Surely both Hampel and NKI could be said to be luckier (in that they achieved rostrum spots due to injuries to others, and didn't suffer any major injuries themselves), and more consistent (when you look at performances in all events). I don't disagree with Darcy being labelled the most talented, and he would be my pick for World Champ this year. But as SCB points out, its going to be one hell of a battle with Tai, Emil, NKI, Holder, Hampel and potentially Nicki and Greg in the mix as well. Staying relatively injury free again is going to be a big factor. Jarek does seem to be the under-estimated rider on this thread...possibly because he doesn't race over here. I also like to play around with stats and Jarek came out on top for 2013 the way that I used to rate riders (an adaptation of the Bradley-Terry model if anyone cares...happy to explain the details to anyone who does) I actually got a little lazy and haven't quite finished loading all of the 2013 results in, but have 1,289 meetings and 20,578 races from 2013 included, which took us up to the 11th of October. The top 5 were: Jarek Hampel (1974.199) Tai Woffinden (1815.454) Niels K Iversen (1792.304) Emil Sayfutdinov (1546.134) Chris Holder (1542.819) Head to head, Jarek beat Tai 14-10, Niels 14-13 and Chris 10-5. Emil actually had the upper hand on Jarek head to head, 8-9. Just for those interested in Darcy, he was 6th in the list and was beaten 16-11 when racing Jarek. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted January 12, 2014 back to pointless statistics.........3 rounds in Poland,,hampel scored jst 6pts at 2 indoor rounds.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted January 13, 2014 Jarek does seem to be the under-estimated rider on this thread...possibly because he doesn't race over here. I also like to play around with stats and Jarek came out on top for 2013 the way that I used to rate riders (an adaptation of the Bradley-Terry model if anyone cares...happy to explain the details to anyone who does) I actually got a little lazy and haven't quite finished loading all of the 2013 results in, but have 1,289 meetings and 20,578 races from 2013 included, which took us up to the 11th of October. The top 5 were: Jarek Hampel (1974.199) Tai Woffinden (1815.454) Niels K Iversen (1792.304) Emil Sayfutdinov (1546.134) Chris Holder (1542.819) Head to head, Jarek beat Tai 14-10, Niels 14-13 and Chris 10-5. Emil actually had the upper hand on Jarek head to head, 8-9. Just for those interested in Darcy, he was 6th in the list and was beaten 16-11 when racing Jarek. My issue with Hampel is he just didn't do it when it matters, the GPs. The generally accepted other top guys of Woffinden, Holder, Ward and Sajfutdinov all had injuries that means missing rounds or parts of rounds or riding with broken bones. He's a good rider, he's more than capable of winning a title next year but last year he only come to life when Emil got injured. He was 18 behind Emil when Emil got injured. When holder got injured he was 10 behind him with a 1/3 of the season to go. Hampel come to life when it was all over and the top guys had dropped like flies due to injury. Only a fool would count him out of the title race next season but last year, I just don't think when it mattered he was in the top 5. That aside, he was probably one of the star men in the World Cup Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T.N.T. 355 Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) Polish EL Averages 1 = 9.61 Jarek Hampel 2 = 9.46 Neils K Iversen 3 = 9.33 TAI WOFFINDEN 4 = 8.77 Nicki Pedersen 5 = 8.62 Emil Sayfutdinov 16 = 7.62 Darcy Ward Final British EL Averages 1 = 9.20 TAI WOFFINDEN 2 = 9.12 Neils K Iversen 3 = 9.07 Darcy Ward Final GP Standings 1 = TAI WOFFINDEN 2 = Jarek Hampel 3 = Neils K Iversen 8 = Darcy Ward Swedish EL Averages 1 = 9.26 Nicki Pedersen 2 = 9.16 Jarek Hampel 3 = 8.91 Chris Holder 4 = 8.72 Darcy Ward 5 = 8.71 Neils K Iversen No one is disputing Darcy is one hell of a rider but when it comes down to commitment on and off the track, Tai, Jarek and Neils gained the results neded to claim the top three places in the World rankings and the Polish EL Averages and ifHampel had ridden in England then you can bet he would be a 9+ rider just as Ti would be in Sweden. Tai, Jarek, Iversen, Emil, Nicki, Holder, Hancock and Ward are clearly the top 8 riders around todayand there isn't a great deal between all 8 and there are a few very good riders just behind them like Zagar, Laguta and Dudek and being World Champion in a time when these riders are around certainly deserves respect as the World #1 Edited January 13, 2014 by T.N.T. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted January 13, 2014 Colin m - are u saying that henry and my statistics are pointless, or that u are providing pointless stats. both henry and my stats are based on pretty much all meetings in 2013, so hampel would have finished at least second in my breakdown regsrdless of home country advantage for an extra couple of gps. Henry - I am interested in knowing details of your system. Interesting we had very similsr rankings ( I had holder 6th). Scb - agree to a large extent re hampel. However, he was the top rider in league speedway and in the swc. My ranking system does weigh gp results the most heavily, however even there he was the fourth ranked performer (bedind tai emil and darcy), and not that far behind. Tnt - I think nki should be number 5 in your swedish average list Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted January 13, 2014 statistics are not pointless, they are easily agumentive, like politics..im certainly not saying they are wrong, it just solves nothing.. 2013 world number 1 tai woffinden.. end of.... you could argue any single world title, but whats the point? carter/penhalll....szczakiel/mauger....to name just 2....all pointless......poole lge champions when not top? you can argue about anything.. people over the yrs will not remember jarek, darcy, emil or anybody, unless they achieve hat woffy has,, im no woffy fan, im just saying he IS world number 1............... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted January 13, 2014 But noone is arguing who is world champ. The question was who was the best rider in 2013, not who was world champ or who was best in the gps. Its an interesting discussion point, if you dont agree then no need to join in. Clearly results/ stats are going to be one of the key components of such a discussion, though not the be all and end all or thrre would be no point debating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted January 13, 2014 point taken.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rob240866 58 Posted January 13, 2014 point taken.. tai is the best rider in the world at the moment. did someone say he was lucky? what the hell yeh riding and winning with a broken collar bone thats really lucky.lol. ward will be a world champ when he learns to concentrate on riding hard instead of pulling wheelies to the cameras on the bends. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
