BWitcher 12,453 Posted February 4, 2014 you clearly stated the racing in 40s/50s were from the gate just 2 messages up, it wasn't me slagging it off!!...and what do you mean when you say you prefer EVERYONE getting a chance over 60 rides? EVERYONE meaning just 15 riders???hal of the gp field wouldn't even make the final under the old system....would harris of made all those finals? chris Louis couldn't buy his way past the overseas rounds time after time, yet once these riders get in the gps, theres no getting rid of them! You're making yourself look more silly with every post. My reference to the old world finals was in relation to the fallacy that is always put forward, which you are now doing yourself, that the racing was so much better in bygone days. It wasn't. You had many gate and go races then just as you do today. That's not slagging off, that is reality. Your true colors are now shining through, you're throwing out inaccurate statement after inaccurate statement simply because you are yearning for a bygone era that is gone and isn't coming back. Everyone has the chance to qualify for the gps. It's strange though, those that qualify tend to struggle mightily, yet you are claiming existing gp riders aren't up to the job.... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted February 4, 2014 bonkers! Glad you've finally realized your problem, now the thread can back on track 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted February 4, 2014 Britain has been given wildcard year on year, simply to have a brit in the field..Sweden, Poland, Denmark are the major speedway countries, the organisers will always sprinkle riders in from these countries simply because the venues are staged in these places.. its a closed shop.....smith/harris/Louis/nicholls all handed wildcards as couldn't make it themselves..farcical Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) Britain has been given wildcard year on year, simply to have a brit in the field..Sweden, Poland, Denmark are the major speedway countries, the organisers will always sprinkle riders in from these countries simply because the venues are staged in these places.. its a closed shop.....smith/harris/Louis/nicholls all handed wildcards as couldn't make it themselves..farcical Once again you are inventing things to suit your argument. Andy smith qualified from the gp challenge meeting a number of years running. You have claimed half of the current gp field wouldn't have made a world final if we were using the old system. Now this claim either means you think the old system was very poor as we ended up with a final missing many of the top riders, or you actually believe that the riders currently in the gp (half of them) are not the best riders in the world right now. I'll give you Chris Harris, let me know the others. Of course you can't pick the qualifiers like Smolinski either or you are defeating your own argument. Edited February 4, 2014 by BWitcher 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted February 4, 2014 Britain has been given wildcard year on year, simply to have a brit in the field..Sweden, Poland, Denmark are the major speedway countries, the organisers will always sprinkle riders in from these countries simply because the venues are staged in these places.. its a closed shop.....smith/harris/Louis/nicholls all handed wildcards as couldn't make it themselves..farcical Can you name a year under the old world final system in which the host nation wasn't given at least one slot in the final? Or name one final in the 80s which didnt contain a number of sub standard finalists who qualified through virtue of their nstionality? Who would you say was better, starostin ondrssik, adjoran and kroeze or harris louis nicholls and lindgren? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barrycuda 184 Posted February 4, 2014 Read this if you want to know about one of finals http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=22590 Started by Ian 2005 on this forum I remember it being in the Sunday Newspaper and have still got the paper in question somewhere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vince 9,459 Posted February 4, 2014 I went to a few Wembley World Finals, fantastic events, great atmosphere and generally poor racing is the way I remember them. Bad luck with your programmed gates was enough to prevent you being World Champion, not now! In my opinion there is no way in the world that Speedway was more cut throat in the 60's and 70's than it is now. Riders these days ride over their limits far more often and are harder on each other than they ever were in the 'good old days' as far as I am concerned. Lots of things wrong with modern Speedway but the commitment and ability of riders is none of them. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humphrey Appleby 13,983 Posted February 4, 2014 Which one? 1994 in Vojens? 1993 in Pocking? How about the last one in England, 1990 at Bradford? The World Final was dying, crowds were tumbling. You have to go a long way back to get to crowds being as big as Cardiff. Bradford was about 24,000 which would be quite comparable with many of the GPs today. Wroclaw in 1992 was probably 25-30,000 as well. Perhaps the crowds fell because they were held in out-of-the-way unattractive venues, so it became a self-fulfilling prophecy that the World Final was dying. If Cardiff had been available for a World Final at the time, then I'm sure it could have attracted 30-40K as well. I don't suggest that we should return to the one-off World Final system, but when you cut through the hype of the SGP, the truth is that the attendances at many of the GPs are no better and in some cases worse than for even the latter World Finals. Which one? 1994 in Vojens? 1993 in Pocking? How about the last one in England, 1990 at Bradford? The World Final was dying, crowds were tumbling. You have to go a long way back to get to crowds being as big as Cardiff. Bradford was about 24,000 which would be quite comparable with many of the GPs today. Wroclaw in 1992 was probably 25-30,000 as well. Perhaps the crowds fell because they were held in out-of-the-way unattractive venues, so it became a self-fulfilling prophecy that the World Final was dying. If Cardiff had been available for a World Final at the time, then I'm sure it could have attracted 30-40K as well. I don't suggest that we should return to the one-off World Final system, but when you cut through the hype of the SGP, the truth is that the attendances at many of the GPs are no better and in some cases worse than for even the latter World Finals. If the SGP's are only netting BSI £1.5m a year profit that is poor. Their business director should be fired but to the general public that seems to be a reasonable amount A 15% return is not terrible, bearing in mind that some of the expenses are with other companies in the IMG group. You can also consider at least half of the amount going to the FIM to be 'profit' as well. 2.5 million is quite small beer by the standards of some sports, but it's 2 million quid that's apparently not going into the sport. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted February 4, 2014 Of course if the british gp was run by say the bspa, there is no guarantee the profits would go back into the sport either... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted February 4, 2014 Bradford was about 24,000 which would be quite comparable with many of the GPs today. Wroclaw in 1992 was probably 25-30,000 as well. Perhaps the crowds fell because they were held in out-of-the-way unattractive venues, so it became a self-fulfilling prophecy that the World Final was dying. If Cardiff had been available for a World Final at the time, then I'm sure it could have attracted 30-40K as well. I don't suggest that we should return to the one-off World Final system, but when you cut through the hype of the SGP, the truth is that the attendances at many of the GPs are no better and in some cases worse than for even the latter World Finals. Bradford was about 24,000 which would be quite comparable with many of the GPs today. Wroclaw in 1992 was probably 25-30,000 as well. Perhaps the crowds fell because they were held in out-of-the-way unattractive venues, so it became a self-fulfilling prophecy that the World Final was dying. If Cardiff had been available for a World Final at the time, then I'm sure it could have attracted 30-40K as well. I don't suggest that we should return to the one-off World Final system, but when you cut through the hype of the SGP, the truth is that the attendances at many of the GPs are no better and in some cases worse than for even the latter World Finals. A 15% return is not terrible, bearing in mind that some of the expenses are with other companies in the IMG group. You can also consider at least half of the amount going to the FIM to be 'profit' as well. 2.5 million is quite small beer by the standards of some sports, but it's 2 million quid that's apparently not going into the sport. Cut through your waffle and we get to the real only comparable point. A ONE-OFF World Final, in a time where there were far more paying customers attending speedway across the UK attracted 24,000 in the UK. Nowhere near the level that attend Cardiff. That was the debate in question, not other GP's in remote countries. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skidder1 7,659 Posted February 4, 2014 Ah but do you think the 'Speedway Star is a Toothless Pussycat'??!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PHILIPRISING 7,298 Posted February 4, 2014 AND, as it happens, the last attendance at Odsal for a World Final was in fact less than 20,000. Wembley World Final attendances were invariably put at 100,000 because that was the stadium's alleged capacity and it sounded good but few if any actually achieved that level and the one in 1981 was way below that. Different era, of course, and as BWitcher so rightly points out the number of people regularly attending speedway in the UK 30 years ago was significantly higher than today. Without the GPs and Cardiff what major World Championship event do people think would take place in Britain now? Even if there was a one-off World Final the likelihood of it being staged here in anything more than every five or six years would be minimal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldace 1,678 Posted February 4, 2014 AND, as it happens, the last attendance at Odsal for a World Final was in fact less than 20,000. Wembley World Final attendances were invariably put at 100,000 because that was the stadium's alleged capacity and it sounded good but few if any actually achieved that level and the one in 1981 was way below that. Different era, of course, and as BWitcher so rightly points out the number of people regularly attending speedway in the UK 30 years ago was significantly higher than today. Without the GPs and Cardiff what major World Championship event do people think would take place in Britain now? Even if there was a one-off World Final the likelihood of it being staged here in anything more than every five or six years would be minimal. Correct. 1981 was 72,000 in reality despite the oft quoted 92,000. As far as I recall only 3 Wembley finals were ever sell outs, 1978 was one. Vince is quite right in that generally racing in world finals was poor, generally after 8 heats at least half the field couldn't win and by the interval it was usually down to 3 or 4 possible winners meaning little to race for for the others. Likewise qualifiers rarely produced good racing because riders were not trying to win, merely be in the top 11 (of some events) so a safe second or even third was usually OK. As a percentage of the speedway watching population it is a fact that Cardiff surpasses any world final in the history of the sport. Yes some Wembley finals had more than double but it was in a time when probably 5 or 6 (or more) times more people regularly attended the sport 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humphrey Appleby 13,983 Posted February 4, 2014 Cut through your waffle and we get to the real only comparable point. A ONE-OFF World Final, in a time where there were far more paying customers attending speedway across the UK attracted 24,000 in the UK. Nowhere near the level that attend Cardiff. That was the debate in question, not other GP's in remote countries. And cut through your waffle and the point was that if Cardiff had been available for a a World Final then attendances may have been considerably more than for Bradford. Bradford was capacity limited and not a particularly attractive venue for the casual fan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
