Arson fire 4,785 Posted May 10, 2014 This is not the bspa stopping anything there is a system in place for Brits to go through the system Lambert gave up the rights to that as soon as he decided to ride elite league outside the draft. At this point he has no eligibility to be a 3pt rider it is either an assessed 7pt or converted average when he gets one. (The rules don't actually state he cannot double down the rules are you cannot sign as a double up rider in the el if you don't yet have a pl average so if he quit kl !) I would have no problem in Newcastle signing him on a converted average once he has one but its taking the Mick to suggest he should be an assessed 3 Brit or not. PS and technically the bspa helped him in the first place as he should not have been a 3 if Germany is classed as a proffesional league thats counter acted by him riding in NL surely??.... One set of rules with 4or 5 interpretations. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bullet 72 Posted May 10, 2014 thats counter acted by him riding in NL surely??.... One set of rules with 4or 5 interpretations.Possibly except it clearly states about the nl being an amateur league and the average being different once they have ridden in a professional league eg el or germany and on all cases where there are 2 averages its the higher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv 10,714 Posted May 10, 2014 It doesnt really matter which side of the arguement anyone is on the over riding point IMO is that you cant change the regs mid season. It may be wrong to have regs that prevent a 16 year old Brit from doubling up but the time to sort that is between seasons. FWIW I would be in favour of allowing it in future. However you then need to think of the impact on fair team building so I wouldnt let anyone start on a 3 in both leagues. If they are good enough to go EL straightaway then a 3 there and a 5 in PL seems reasonable to me. If they start in just 1 league then a 3. Should they subsequently look to double mid season then use the standard conversion. Im sure theres plenty of holes to be picked in that which just goes to show how difficult it can be to get regs right - another reason not to make a hasty mid season change besides the integrity position. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arson fire 4,785 Posted May 10, 2014 (edited) Possibly except it clearly states about the nl being an amateur league and the average being different once they have ridden in a professional league eg el or germany and on all cases where there are 2 averages its the higherhas he ridden in the German league??... Or a German league?? Or just individuals?? Edited May 10, 2014 by Arson fire Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bullet 72 Posted May 10, 2014 (edited) has he ridden in the German league??... Or a German league?? Or just individuals??It appears yes they were all individuals so probably wouldn't count and which allows his 3pt average in the el. Riding el however which is proffesional does! Going the way he has instead of going up a step at atime has cost him but how do you build rules fofor that as how often does someone jump from bottom to top then drop down. Also was it his choice to jump straight up or was their pressure from kl as they tried to take advantage of him being a 3pt rider as soon as possible Will be interesting to see if anything does change before the possibility of the spiller brothers coming across to race if they decide to Edited May 10, 2014 by The Scunthorpe bullet Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 15 Posted May 10, 2014 I say it again, for once members of the BSPA, who seem to be quite happy over the years to give special dissension for spurious reasons, for once, do it for the good of the sport in the UK and actually help out a British rider who is being stifled here just for having had the ambition to ride EL 1-5 in his first season. And then we wonder why British riders take it easy and play it safe, it's because if you do try pushing yourself the regulations ** over. Seriously, let him double up! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Smith 5,694 Posted May 10, 2014 Has something gone wrong in the Lambert camp? At the team announcement supporters meeting back last year Lambert specifically said he'd have no time to ride Premier League due to riding commitments in the British EL + German and Danish leagues 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted May 10, 2014 (edited) I say it again, for once members of the BSPA, who seem to be quite happy over the years to give special dissension for spurious reasons, for once, do it for the good of the sport in the UK and actually help out a British rider who is being stifled here just for having had the ambition to ride EL 1-5 in his first season. And then we wonder why British riders take it easy and play it safe, it's because if you do try pushing yourself the regulations ** over. Seriously, let him double up! It would be an utter farce. If this was Poole wanting the same rule change you and many others would be up in arms. As it is, the BSPA have for once stuck the the rules. Lambert was fully aware of the rules at the start of the season, he was fully aware that by committing to the EL as he did he was ruling out a PL place. It was HIS choice to do that. Nobody stifled him in any way. I agree the rule should be looked at in the winter, but now is not the time to do it. Edited to add: Just seen Screamers post which shows Lambert had no plans at all to ride PL. Edited May 10, 2014 by BWitcher 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted May 10, 2014 It would be an utter farce. If this was Poole wanting the same rule change you and many others would be up in arms. As it is, the BSPA have for once stuck the the rules. Lambert was fully aware of the rules at the start of the season, he was fully aware that by committing to the EL as he did he was ruling out a PL place. It was HIS choice to do that. Nobody stifled him in any way. I agree the rule should be looked at in the winter, but now is not the time to do it. Edited to add: Just seen Screamers post which shows Lambert had no plans at all to ride PL. If Newcastle was Poole - he would be riding for us on Sunday. The Rules would have been got round somehow. :mad: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted May 10, 2014 If Newcastle was Poole - he would be riding for us on Sunday. The Rules would have been got round somehow. :mad: Maybe so, but that doesn't make it right We moan enough about rules being broken, now one is adhered too and still folk are attacking the BSPA: 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted May 10, 2014 Maybe so, but that doesn't make it right We moan enough about rules being broken, now one is adhered too and still folk are attacking the BSPA: Only because they are NOT CONSISTENT in their decisions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted May 10, 2014 Only because they are NOT CONSISTENT in their decisions. Are there any other riders who have been allowed to do what Newcastle wanted to do with Lambert? If not, then they've been 100% consistent. The rule is there, they've enforced it. I thought you were very much against rule breaking/bending WK? Yet now it involves your team you seem to want them to turn a blind eye? 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted May 10, 2014 Are there any other riders who have been allowed to do what Newcastle wanted to do with Lambert? If not, then they've been 100% consistent. The rule is there, they've enforced it. I thought you were very much against rule breaking/bending WK? Yet now it involves your team you seem to want them to turn a blind eye? No, I can't - my problem is not with Lambert or with my Team. My problem is that had Newcastle been Poole (as you said) he would have been riding at Newcastle on Sunday. It was you who made me think about that. THAT is what is wrong in Speedway - there is one Law for some and one Law for others - that is not RIGHT. For what it's worth, if Lambert riding for us means bending or breaking the Rules - I don't want him. So I hope that clears that up. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 15 Posted May 10, 2014 (edited) The doubling up rules says, "and up to 2 Doubling-Up Riders who must at the time of declaration: a) be in a Premier League’s currently declared 1 – 7, have a PL MA established prior to the start of the season and c) give absolute priority to all British Speedway fixtures." when referring to the EL declaration. There nothing in the Pl section about double upper. When Lynns team was declared Robert was not doubling up. There you go Newcastle and Robert. I've just found you your loop-hole. The double up rules only mater to the EL team at the time of (re-)declaration. Not the PL team. Edited May 10, 2014 by SCB Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
northyorksbear 610 Posted May 10, 2014 The doubling up rules says, "and up to 2 Doubling-Up Riders who must at the time of declaration: a) be in a Premier League’s currently declared 1 – 7, have a PL MA established prior to the start of the season and c) give absolute priority to all British Speedway fixtures." when referring to the EL declaration. There nothing in the Pl section about double upper. When Lynns team was declared Robert was not doubling up. There you go Newcastle and Robert. I've just found you your loop-hole. The double up rules only mater to the EL team at the time of (re-)declaration. Not the PL team. The clue is in the title it is about doubling up to Elite, not doubling down to Premier Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
