Belle Vue National Stadium

[Little Thumper 528]

HOPEFULLY in SS shortly when we know that the future of speedway at the NSS is assured, which hopefully won't be very long now.

 

PHILIPRISING, in the light of recent developments are you - as confident, less confident or more confident that the future of speedway at the the Belle Vue Arena is assured?

 

You hinted that all will be settled shortly.

Are you able to say whether this will be days or weeks?

 

Thanks

Edited January 8, 2017 by Little Thumper

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

 

PHILIPRISING, in the light of recent developments are you - as confident, less confident or more confident that the future of speedway at the the Belle Vue Arena is assured?

 

You hinted that all will be settled shortly.

Are you able to say whether this will be days or weeks?

 

Thanks

 

It wasn't meant to be a version of activities?

 

As you've gone to the trouble of picking out a specific point why don't you tell us what actually were the activities a week before the meeting? I was there myself a week before and was surprised at how much was still to do, I even passed comment on here about the state of the track, which I later admitted helped or even started the 'track not ready' rumours.

 

I hope you don't spread hearsay on message boards as fact. Here's an example of where a jokey comment on a message board can go.

 

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ravanelli-in-county-frame-922976

LET'S say I am optimistic although last week it did appear that Pairman was in the driving seat and that given this business background (chartered accountant etc) and with Chris Morton as a figurehead (not anything more) MCC did favour him.

 

The BSPA, however, were not supportive and seem to prefer an alternative solution although at the moment there is no real reason to think that will not come to fruition.

 

Frustrating, I know, but that's British speedway unfortunately.

[Little Thumper 528]

 

LET'S say I am optimistic although last week it did appear that Pairman was in the driving seat and that given this business background (chartered accountant etc) and with Chris Morton as a figurehead (not anything more) MCC did favour him.

 

The BSPA, however, were not supportive and seem to prefer an alternative solution although at the moment there is no real reason to think that will not come to fruition.

 

Frustrating, I know, but that's British speedway unfortunately.

 

Thank you for that PHILIPRISING.

Why do you think that the BSPA would not support a solution which comprised a financially viable and financially competent person, supported by a person who has a comprehensive knowledge of speedway and a proposal that was acceptable to the venue owners, Manchester City Council?

 

It is hard for us mere mortals to understand why the BSPA believe that some other proposal might be a better solution.

Does the alternative proposal have more money behind it or does it deliver a longer term plan?

 

I am sure that this is not the case but if speedway at Belle Vue were to be lost due to a clash of personalities or anything to do with the furtherance of personal interests, financial or otherwise, then I find it hard to believe that the speedway fan in general and the Belle Vue fan in particular would forgive the BSPA and all those involved with any such failure.

 

I note that PHILIPRISING has not stated that he is LESS optimistic, so we must maintain our faith in his judgement and continue to believe that he is correct when he says that speedway will definitely run at Belle Vue in 2017.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Little Thumper

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

FIND it hard to believe that BSPA would effectively scupper one viable proposition unless they were certain they had another. But, then again, this is the BSPA we are talking about.

 

Not sure my optimism has anything to do with judgement only what I am to told.

 

Also pretty sure that MCC are determined to see speedway continue at the NSS. They don't want a white elephant on their hands and as it would reflect badly on them.

[Little Thumper 528]

FIND it hard to believe that BSPA would effectively scupper one viable proposition unless they were certain they had another. But, then again, this is the BSPA we are talking about.

 

Not sure my optimism has anything to do with judgement only what I am to told.

 

Also pretty sure that MCC are determined to see speedway continue at the NSS. They don't want a white elephant on their hands and as it would reflect badly on them.

 

Thank you for your candour, PHILIPRISING.

 

With regard to Manchester City Council, they might quite like speedway to continue at the Belle Vue Arena but when push comes to shove, the Council and more specifically the elected councillors will follow a course of action that saves their own skins.

 

If that means other parties have to be hung out to dry, then that is just unfortunate.

 

Clearly, the fate of the Belle Vue Arena will be decided by the BSPA and we must therefore put our trust in their judgement and believe that they will, in all matters, act in the best interests of British Speedway in it's entirety.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Little Thumper

[Tsunami 10,219]

It wasn't meant to be a version of activities?

 

As you've gone to the trouble of picking out a specific point why don't you tell us what actually were the activities a week before the meeting? I was there myself a week before and was surprised at how much was still to do, I even passed comment on here about the state of the track, which I later admitted helped or even started the 'track not ready' rumours.

 

I hope you don't spread hearsay on message boards as fact. Here's an example of where a jokey comment on a message board can go.

 

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ravanelli-in-county-frame-922976

I think you have just highlighted the reason why I will not be relaying what I know of the activities the week before. As you have confirmed, this did not happen overnight.

[The White Knight 9,039]

I think you have just highlighted the reason why I will not be relaying what I know of the activities the week before. As you have confirmed, this did not happen overnight.

Perhaps it will all come out eventually.........

 

I am absolutely gutted by this debacle - I believed in this scheme for a National Speedway Stadium from the start, apart from a slight wobble when I wondered if it was ever going to happen. I think it is really sad that, whatever the causes, a superb initiative like the National Speedway Stadium has got off to just about the worst possible start that it could have done.

 

I still have hopes that things will eventually work out well for Belle Vue and it's new Stadium. My confidence, though, is at a pretty low ebb.

 

I wish the whole Project well, and my Team Belle Vue much success.

 

We shall see.

[ouch 1,200]

We'll run this year I've no doubt of that it's just the long planned for legacy is gone.

 

We are just tenants now not owners. MCC can decide if the back straight opens just at easily as when the GRA decided to knocked down the Chieftain stand. If Monsters trucks are a better option on a BH then they will run instead of us. Down the line 5, 10 or 20 years it might suit MCC to see the dog track levelled and be replaced by council tax paying homes. Belle Vue dogs and stock cars would be attractive financially as fellow tenants in the NSS (if that's still its name) so we get sidelined still further. The thing is now it's out of our hands.

 

As has happened many times over the last few decades this knee jerk reaction to have a pop at Belle Vue has long term repercussions for us and the sport in the U.K.

 

Considering it took so long to achieve it's a crying shame to see it lost over petty jealousy and envy.

 

British Speedway fuelled by .......

[Little Thumper 528]

 

 

British Speedway fuelled by .......

 

Incompetence

[The White Knight 9,039]

We'll run this year I've no doubt of that it's just the long planned for legacy is gone.

 

We are just tenants now not owners. MCC can decide if the back straight opens just at easily as when the GRA decided to knocked down the Chieftain stand. If Monsters trucks are a better option on a BH then they will run instead of us. Down the line 5, 10 or 20 years it might suit MCC to see the dog track levelled and be replaced by council tax paying homes. Belle Vue dogs and stock cars would be attractive financially as fellow tenants in the NSS (if that's still its name) so we get sidelined still further. The thing is now it's out of our hands.

 

As has happened many times over the last few decades this knee jerk reaction to have a pop at Belle Vue has long term repercussions for us and the sport in the U.K.

 

Considering it took so long to achieve it's a crying shame to see it lost over petty jealousy and envy.

 

British Speedway fuelled by .......

............ and that's my worry.

[Falcon Hammer 576]

Even the most ridiculous track conditions have been considered recoverable and when you watch the YouTube clips of the practice laps on the night, even now, with the benefit of hindsight it seems incredible that the meeting didn't go ahead, doesn't it?

I was also surprised it didn't go ahead; expected the rollers to come out after every 4 heats, possibly every 2 - would've been a bit of inconvenience, but I'm sure most people would've been understanding

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

The Belle Vue promoters were putting money into a business that's 100% reliant on leased facilities. If those leased facilities needed to be constructed to a particular specification, I'd absolutely make it a condition of my lease to be able to inspect that the facilities met the necessary specification - at every stage of construction.

 

I have some sympathy for the promoters who pursued a vision, eventually made it happen, but who appear to have been let down by other parties. Unfortunately though, that's the nature of doing business and the incompetence of others can cost you dearly if you neglect the supervisory process.

 

 

I don't know the ins-and-outs of the arrangements with Quirky Lane, but the new stadium was built to a tight schedule and construction overruns and deficiencies are not unusual. I'm not sure why a provisional agreement couldn't have been made to use the old stadium, or to delay the start of the season if there were any delays in delivery.

 

 

The bottom line is that ultimately it doesn't matter where the blame lies. Two promoters have lost their shirts as a result, the council has lost a lot of revenue, and the reputation of the new stadium has been damaged.

 

The Council should certainly be up to supervising the construction of stands and toilets, but I doubt they have any experience at all with constructing a speedway track and I absolutely wouldn't be reliant on them signing off something that important to my business.

 

I'd say its pretty clear that Belle Vue didn't have inspection rights. There's no way the council would have settled a counter claim if they had. I'd also say that you are right when you state you would very much want to have such rights if your business was greatly affected by the quality of the construction.

 

I conclude, then, that the council refused to allow Belle Vue any part in construction other than the design.

 

What to do in those circumstances ? Fold the team ? Unthinkable. Stay at Kirky Lane permanently ? Unthinkable, given that David Gordon had said many times that there was no future there.

 

Temporary residency at Kirky Lane, to me, is simply not an option. For a start, Belle Vue were constantly assured by the council that the stadium would be ready on time and fit for purpose and until a few weeks before that, had no reason to disbelieve them (lets not forget that the practice session was a huge success). Notice to quit Kirky Lane must have been given months before hand and as the GRA are often no friends of speedway I can just imagine how much a week to week contract would have cost. I can also imagine how it would have looked if Gordon and Morton had agreed to a cover arrangement that would have cost a huge amount totally unnecessarily especially given that the club was cash strapped before they moved.

 

Its easy to be wise with hindsight, but in their shoes I would have done exactly what Gordon and Morton did in moving to NSS.

 

Its why I think any suggestion that laying any responsibility for the shoddy construction at the feet of Gordon & Morton is entirely unreasonable. What they are at least partly responsible for, however, is the existence of a world class stadium with a world class track like none other in Britain.

 

You can say that it doesn't matter where the blame lies, and in the end you are right. But there is a great deal of interest in the story of what happened. I'd be surprised if there is any speedway fan who couldn't care less about the near loss of not just speedway's fantastic new stadium but also of the most famous name in world speedway, Belle Vue Aces.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Halifaxtiger

[New Science 1,059]

 

I'd say its pretty clear that Belle Vue didn't have inspection rights. There's no way the council would have settled a counter claim if they had. I'd also say that you are right when you state you would very much want to have such rights if your business was greatly affected by the quality of the construction.

 

I conclude, then, that the council refused to allow Belle Vue any part in construction other than the design.

 

What to do in those circumstances ? Fold the team ? Unthinkable. Stay at Kirky Lane permanently ? Unthinkable, given that David Gordon had said many times that there was no future there.

 

Temporary residency at Kirky Lane, to me, is simply not an option. For a start, Belle Vue were constantly assured by the council that the stadium would be ready on time and fit for purpose and until a few weeks before that, had no reason to disbelieve them (lets not forget that the practice session was a huge success). Notice to quit Kirky Lane must have been given months before hand and as the GRA are often no friends of speedway I can just imagine how much a week to week contract would have cost. I can also imagine how it would have looked if Gordon and Morton had agreed to a cover arrangement that would have cost a huge amount totally unnecessarily especially given that the club was cash strapped before they moved.

 

Its easy to be wise with hindsight, but in their shoes I would have done exactly what Gordon and Morton did in moving to NSS.

 

Its why I think any suggestion that laying any responsibility for the shoddy construction at the feet of Gordon & Morton is entirely unreasonable. What they are at least partly responsible for, however, is the existence of a world class stadium with a world class track like none other in Britain.

 

You can say that it doesn't matter where the blame lies, and in the end you are right. But there is a great deal of interest in the story of what happened. I'd be surprised if there is any speedway fan who couldn't care less about the near loss of not just speedway's fantastic new stadium but also of the most famous name in world speedway, Belle Vue Aces.

If Gordon and Morton are the good guys here , how come their good friends at the BSPA have revoked their promoting license and their partners at Manchester council have locked them out of their own stadium ?

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

If Gordon and Morton are the good guys here , how come their good friends at the BSPA have revoked their promoting license and their partners at Manchester council have locked them out of their own stadium ?

 

Its not my intention to paint them as 'good guys', just as blameless for the shoddy construction.

 

Having said that, in my view David Gordon & Chris Morton soldiered on for years as Kirky Lane believing that NSS would be built and in the hope that a move to a new stadium would attract increased attendances and wipe out running debts. You only have to read the pages of this forum to know that many were sceptical, contemptuous and dismissive and it is my understanding that a few within the BSPA were too.

 

The stadium was built, and that is at least partly down to them.

 

It would be speculation indeed to suggest that if the stadium had been completed as planned (no issues with track, proper terracing and toilets) Belle Vue would have survived unscathed but the way I see it the Peter Craven meeting and the fact that the track was not fit for purpose for several weeks was the straw that broke Morton & Gordon's back.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Halifaxtiger

[OveFundinFan 4,150]

If Gordon and Morton are the good guys here , how come their good friends at the BSPA have revoked their promoting license and their partners at Manchester council have locked them out of their own stadium ?

 

Before the 2016 season ie NSS opeing, does anyone know what the relationship between Dave Gordon and Chris Morton ws in reality???