Who Would Have Won?

[Grachan 7,364]

Depends on the system. Using the ko system Gundersen would havewon a few by sneaking into the finals many times via the eliminators, then doing Nielsen in the final.

 

Using the current format Nielsen would probably won them all and gone down as the undisputed greatest rider of all time that he should have.

[stratton 1,491]

Depends on the system. Using the ko system Gundersen would havewon a few by sneaking into the finals many times via the eliminators, then doing Nielsen in the final.

Using the current format Nielsen would probably won them all and gone down as the undisputed greatest rider of all time that he should have.

Not as good as Briggo,!? plus i still feel Lee,Penhall,Gundersen had his number but he regrouped after and after bitter disappointments he got stronger fair play to him.

[Wackie 938]

Really from the list WC's from 85 to 85 only Gary Havelock stands out as the one who wouldn't have won a title if the GP's had replaced the 1 off WF a decade earlier. There's very little doubt in my mind that had his horrible injury not robbed him from the sport, Per Jonsson would have been WC in 1994 - he was on fire that year!

 

The Danes would have owned the late 80's, but the Swedes would have ruled the 90's. I think an earlier start to the GP's may have seen Jimmy Nielsen crowned WC too.

[salty 2,208]

Depends on the system. Using the ko system Gundersen would havewon a few by sneaking into the finals many times via the eliminators, then doing Nielsen in the final.

 

Using the current format Nielsen would probably won them all and gone down as the undisputed greatest rider of all time that he should have.

But Gundersen, like Mauger before him, was able to build up to the big night and make those 5 rides count. Thats what was needed in those days. No reason if there was a different system in place then they wouldn't have been able to adapt their approach and make the most out of the GP's.

[stratton 1,491]

But Gundersen, like Mauger before him, was able to build up to the big night and make those 5 rides count. Thats what was needed in those days. No reason if there was a different system in place then they wouldn't have been able to adapt their approach and make the most out of the GP's.

The GPS are an easier system i believe, for the top riders.Most who won the final on a one off only the top ones would of loved the GPS anyway a different challenge a different pressure. Edited August 25, 2014 by sidney

[waiheke1 4,295]

Head to head i would love to know the stats"Bezza" be close i would imagine.Knudsen at his best was a threat good anough but he was unlucky and broke his back but came back to ride at a terrific level.Nielsen i was never a fan but i did warm to him i was wrong what a great rider he was Longevity at a high level shows that.

Off the top of my head, in world finals h2h gundersen beat nielsen 8-3, and finished ahead of him 5-3. Edited August 25, 2014 by waihekeaces1

[Humphrey Appleby 13,981]

Knudsen at his best was a threat good anough but he was unlucky and broke his back but came back to ride at a terrific level.

Knudsen was another that never seemed to be able to pull off the big rides when necessary. A good league rider, but I'd never put him up there with Nielsen and Gundersen.

[waiheke1 4,295]

Knudsen was another that never seemed to be able to pull off the big rides when necessary. A good league rider, but I'd never put him up there with Nielsen and Gundersen.

Agree, but he was unlucky in 86 as the decision could have gone either way. He also had a terrible run with injuries which hampered him. I think definite parallels with kenny carter, though I'd rate carter slightly higher.

[stratton 1,491]

Knudsen was another that never seemed to be able to pull off the big rides when necessary. A good league rider, but I'd never put him up there with Nielsen and Gundersen.

Knudsen was another that never seemed to be able to pull off the big rides when necessary. A good league rider, but I'd never put him up there with Nielsen and Gundersen.

He did break his back Hump, and did well to come back also Nielsen was very lucky to get away with the incident in 86.He beat both quite regular and see him stuff Hans a few times at Sandy lane.

Off the top of my head, in world finals h2h gundersen beat nielsen 8-3, and finished ahead of him 5-3.

Was Nielsen someone you liked or rated? i was never a fan but got to admire him greatly later on.Lee and Penhall i would put above him,i always felt they had his measure also Sigalos/Gundersen after 83 the scene really opened up for Hans.

[waiheke1 4,295]

initially no, as in the early 80s he wasnt as good round hyde rd as gundersen carter penhall s moran.

But he was world class 83 onwards and peaked around 86. So he never met penhall or lee when he was at his best. Put penhall lee gundersen and nielsen in a one off race at their peak and I would bsck any of the other s. Put them in a gp series and I would pick hans, possibly against any rider in history.

In terms of "all time greatness" hans would undoubtedly rate above any other riders from the 80s in my view.

[stratton 1,491]

initially no, as in the early 80s he wasnt as good round hyde rd as gundersen carter penhall s moran.

But he was world class 83 onwards and peaked around 86. So he never met penhall or lee when he was at his best. Put penhall lee gundersen and nielsen in a one off race at their peak and I would bsck any of the other s. Put them in a gp series and I would pick hans, possibly against any rider in history.In terms of "all time greatness" hans would undoubtedly rate above any other riders from the 80s in my view.

Greatness yes certainly longevity wins that over a period,at GP level Lee(with his dad) Penhall Gundersen,Carter,Sigalos,Sanders,Moran,would of all loved the discipline.If Penhall had stayed around he would of had Hans measure i am convinced, Lee we probably all knew he would not be around for a long period. Edited August 25, 2014 by sidney

[Humphrey Appleby 13,981]

He did break his back Hump, and did well to come back also Nielsen was very lucky to get away with the incident in 86.

I seem to remember Knudsen broke his back after the end of the 1988 season, so I'm referring more to his prime years as 10 point heat leader. Whilst from memory he was a very consistent league rider in the 85-88 period, I still wouldn't rate him in the echelon of "could've won the world championship" anymore than Lance King, Les Collins or Jeremy Doncaster who also finished on the podium in World Finals.

[waiheke1 4,295]

I seem to remember Knudsen broke his back after the end of the 1988 season, so I'm referring more to his prime years as 10 point heat leader. Whilst from memory he was a very consistent league rider in the 85-88 period, I still wouldn't rate him in the echelon of "could've won the world championship" anymore than Lance King, Les Collins or Jeremy Doncaster who also finished on the podium in World Finals.

Disagree, i'd rank him well ahead of all of those. 3rd in the world on debut at 19, three injury plagued years, 5th in 85 then could have been world champ in 86 if the ref had ruled differently. bombed out of quslifying in 87/88.

I'd have him in the same category as carter and sigalos, though a touch below both of then.

[waiheke1 4,295]

a while back I devised a ranking system, which rated riders on performances across World Championship qualifiers, World Final, British League, Internationals (all 22.5%) and BLRC (10%).

For the years 1979-1989, the top three were:

1979: 1 Lee 2 Olsen 3 Mauger

1980 1 Jessup 2 Penhall 3 Lee

1918 1 Penhall 2 Carter 3 Knudsen

1982 1 Penhall 2 Carter 3Sigalos

1983 1 Nielsen 2 Gundersen 3 Lee

1984 1 Nielsen 2 Gundersen 3 King

1985 1 Gundersen 2 Nielsen 3 S Moran

1986 1 Nielsen 2 Gundersen 3 Jan o Pedersen

1987 1 Nielsen 2 Gundersen 3 Ermolenko

1988 1 Nielsen 2 Jan O Pedersen 3 Gundersen

1989 1 Nielsen 2 Gundersen 3 S Moran

 

In terms of how that compares with who I think would have won GPS.

1979 – as per above

1980 – as per above, though possibly Lee to pip Penhall for 2^nd

1981 – Penhall by a mile. Not certain that Carter would have been part of the 81 GPs, so I’ll plump for Jessup as runner-up (but for his two engine failures at wembley he would have finished 3^rd in the rankings instead of 7^th). 3^rd spot could have gone to Knudsen or Gundersen(4^{th in rankings}), but at best one of them would have been wildcarded in the series – so I’ll plump for Olsen to take 3^rd, the last GP medal for the “old brigade” from the 70s

1982: As per above, assuming Siggy was given a wildcard, otherwise Hans to take 3^rd.

1983: Per above, possibly Lee to finish ahead of Eric in 2^nd

1984: I’ll go Erik ahead of Hans (his ranking was pulled down by his BL tape sexclusions), and Shawn Moran (4^th) to finish in third

1985: Per above

1986: Per above, except I’d go Knudsen (4^th) to take third ahead of Jan O

1987: Per above

1988: Hans to win, I’d say Erik to be 2^nd ahead of Jan O

1989: Nielsen to win. Erik despite his injury may have had enough of a buffer to hold onto a medal spot especially with Shawn Moran’s FIM ban for failing an alcohol test ruling him out and Jan o and Sam both injured. I’ll go Tatum to pick up third spot.

[Sotonian 610]

Really from the list WC's from 85 to 85 only Gary Havelock stands out as the one who wouldn't have won a title if the GP's had replaced the 1 off WF a decade earlier. There's very little doubt in my mind that had his horrible injury not robbed him from the sport, Per Jonsson would have been WC in 1994 - he was on fire that year!

 

The Danes would have owned the late 80's, but the Swedes would have ruled the 90's. I think an earlier start to the GP's may have seen Jimmy Nielsen crowned WC too.

Don't be so quick to dismiss Havelock in 1992, he was on fire that year. I don't have his record to hand but recall that he won virtually everything going that season.