Tsunami 10,219 Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) You contribute nothing to the Play Offs debate, because it is the same old, same old. The team finishing top to win the league. Except you are NOT allowed to say so. :mad: As often as I like.................................. It seems there are 1 or 2 on this forum who would stop me having any opinions at all, if they disagree with their's of course. Lol! When the pokc was first introduced I said the champions should be the best team not the winners of a mini KO cup contest at the end of the season. In my opinion most people would agree with me and see that it devalues the sport and have a detrimental affect on attendances. The pokc sycophants told me that the pokc was brilliant because it attracted huge attendances for the finals and created more meaningful meetings for the mediocre mid table teams. Besides if I was right about the pokc affecting attendances then getting rid would see an increase in attendances, completely ignoring all the other factors affecting attendances. Both statements are probably true but I preferred the league format. The problem with my argument was it was just my preference. I prefer filet steak to a Big Mac and fries but there are lots more burgers sold which obviously means, for various reasons, more people prefer the burger. I then argued that the pokc wasn't fair as it penalised teams who had injuries at the wrong time of the season. The league format is much more likely to even out injuries, bad luck and bad decisions over the course of the season. That isn't an opinion it is a fact. The pokc sycophants told me that the pokc was brilliant because it attracted huge attendances for the finals and created more meaningful meetings for the mediocre mid table teams. Besides if I was right about the pokc affecting attendances then getting rid would see an increase in attendances, completely ignoring all the other factors affecting attendances. I then realised that some teams, having already qualified for the pokc, would use regular league meetings as some sort of practice and not actually worry about the result of the meeting. Leigh Adams actually said what I had been thinking in an interview at a meeting between the top two sides a couple of weeks before the pokc. Apparently teams not trying isn't a problem for some, even fans who have paid good money to attend the meeting, go figure? The pokc sycophants told me that the pokc was brilliant because it attracted huge attendances for the finals and created more meaningful meetings for the mediocre mid table teams. Besides if I was right about the pokc affecting attendances then getting rid would see an increase in attendances, completely ignoring all the other factors affecting attendances. It then became clear that these end of season meetings involving the top teams were in fact meaningless thanks to the pokc. Top teams vying for top spot used to attract much bigger than average attendances and now they attract smaller than average attendances as fans realise that paying to go and watch a practice isn't that good. I pointed out the harm the pokc was doing to attendances but for a different reason. The pokc sycophants told me that the pokc was brilliant because it attracted huge attendances for the finals and created more meaningful meetings for the mediocre mid table teams. Besides if I was right about the pokc affecting attendances then getting rid would see an increase in attendances, completely ignoring all the other factors affecting attendances. More recently attendances seemed to be disappointing at the start of the season and a quick look at the league tables for the last few seasons revealed the pokc winners only needed to win around half their meetings! To win the league a team needs to win well over 75%. The result, more meaningless meetings which effectively cancel out the extra meaningful meetings for the mediocre mid table teams the pokc generates. The pokc sycophants told me that the pokc was brilliant because it attracted huge attendances for the finals and created more meaningful meetings for the mediocre mid table teams. Besides if I was right about the pokc affecting attendances then getting rid would see an increase in attendances, completely ignoring all the other factors affecting attendances. As you can see, it's the pokc sycophants who contribute nothing to the debate and trot out the same hackneyed comments year after year after year. In the meantime the effects are laid bare for all to see. What would usually happen now is the pokc sycophants would say....... The pokc sycophants told me that the pokc was brilliant because it attracted huge attendances for the finals and created more meaningful meetings for the mediocre mid table teams. Besides if I was right about the pokc affecting attendances then getting rid would see an increase in attendances, completely ignoring all the other factors affecting attendances. But they will desperately be trying to come up with something different. They won't be able to of course so they will either keep schtum or trot out some gormless insult. As far as the 'fans cup' is concerned, if someone clever got involved they could get, say, Monster or Red Bull to sponsor it and we could have the winners of the league getting the Fans Monster Cup with prize money of say £250k for the winner and the winners of the pokc would be the sky elite league champions. Seems like some on here are getting a bit too touchy. No one is saying that others can't have an opinion, but as usual it is quoted back to shift the discussion. My term "the same old,same old" was directed to someone on here, who bores the backside off everyone by repeating verbatim the same old point time and time again. That adds NOTHING to the discussion, and on Play Offs they have been discussed at length many times and their advantages in our sport and others described in great detail, particularly the added interest at the end of a season, which means a greater number of teams are actually looking at qualifying, whilst in the old fashion previous championships , possibly only about 2 or 3 are actually be going for it. Injuries can happen at anytime in a Play Offs or League format, it just depends on when they happen. Drop a Cog. I don't think your sarcasm of bigger gates does your opinions much good, as increased attendances do happen before, and during, Play offs, but didn't happen before when 2 or 3 teams were jostling for that single championship. Too many on here thing tomorrow is going to about yesterday. No it's not. That's why we have reducing attendances because too many long for yesterday with everything, and the world for the rest of us has moved on, and the old fails to attract these new more modern fans that could and should be attracted. DaC. I hope to hell the new BV venture is listening to modern sports fans, rather than it be strangled by the old. Final thought to TWK and others. I am a big SPEEDWAY fan, watching 4 riders racing around track 4 times in a race. Never once have I been to watch a meeting to watch the rules, or protest about who I am watching ride or why they could should not be riding. For people like TWK to keep banging on, and giving up watching speedway, because of TR's and/or Play Offs, I would then suggest that their difficulties are not speedway. Edited September 23, 2014 by Tsunami 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) Something went wrong when I Posted my Reply to Tsunami's Post. Seems like some on here are getting a bit too touchy. No one is saying that others can't have an opinion, but as usual it is quoted back to shift the discussion. My term "the same old,same old" was directed to someone on here, who bores the backside off everyone by repeating verbatim the same old point time and time again. That adds NOTHING to the discussion, and on Play Offs they have been discussed at length many times and their advantages in our sport and others described in great detail, particularly the added interest at the end of a season, which means a greater number of teams are actually looking at qualifying, whilst in the old fashion previous championships , possibly only about 2 or 3 are actually be going for it. Injuries can happen at anytime in a Play Offs or League format, it just depends on when they happen. Drop a Cog. I don't think your sarcasm of bigger gates does your opinions much good, as increased attendances do happen before, and during, Play offs, but didn't happen before when 2 or 3 teams were jostling for that single championship. Too many on here thing tomorrow is going to about yesterday. No it's not. That's why we have reducing attendances because too many long for yesterday with everything, and the world for the rest of us has moved on, and the old fails to attract these new more modern fans that could and should be attracted. DaC. I hope to hell the new BV venture is listening to modern sports fans, rather than it be strangled by the old. Final thought to TWK and others. I am a big SPEEDWAY fan, watching 4 riders racing around track 4 times in a race. Never once have I been to watch a meeting to watch the rules, or protest about who I am watching ride or why they could should not be riding. For people like TWK to keep banging on, and giving up watching speedway, because of TR's and/or Play Offs, I would then suggest that their difficulties are not speedway. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ As I said before - a lot of people feel the same as me. Not everyone obviously. If you cannot see that all of this 'new stuff' isn't working - then you are fooling yourself. I am not saying I have all the answers - I DON'T. But to say that those who are leaving the Sport have a problem as opposed to the Sport itself having problems, then you must be deluded. The alternative is that you don't give a damn about how some of Speedway's Customers feel and don't want to admit that I (they) might just have a point. The reason I "bang on about it is because I care". Do you really think I am prepared to put myself in the firing line of, mainly you and orion, just for the fun of it. Edited September 23, 2014 by The White Knight Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shale Searcher 1,264 Posted September 24, 2014 (edited) On Monday night at the double header, when Poole had secured top spot, JG said to Tatum and viewers that Poole, now the LEAGUE LEADERS would get the first pick of oppositon in the play offs....... That didn't sound silly, or daft or even out of place.... The play offs attract the largest league crowds of the domestic season, keep the majority of teams "interested" right up until the last day 6/7 meetings as still in with an outside chance of getting there if they had a bad start to the season........ What really can be wrong with that? Edited September 24, 2014 by Shale Searcher 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Panda 366 Posted September 24, 2014 One trophy for the team that finishes top of the league and one trophy for the play off winners............always should have been that.............. Simples really........ RP 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bagpuss 10,794 Posted September 24, 2014 As long as the Play Offs determine the champions and the league topping trophy is recognition of exactly that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Jasper 192 Posted September 24, 2014 (edited) The team finishing top to win the league. Not as exciting though, take this year. Kings Lynn potentially had to beat Belle Vue, they failed Poole "won" the league, Sky were not there to cover the meeting which meant Poole potentially clinched the title. Edited September 24, 2014 by Sir Jasper 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Panda 366 Posted September 24, 2014 Not as exciting though, take this year. Kings Lynn potentially had to beat Belle Vue, they failed Poole "won" the league, Sky were not there to cover the meeting which meant Poole potentially clinched the title. Sky were there on Monday............. RP Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted September 24, 2014 Sky were there on Monday............. RP The point being made is that Poole would have won the league at a meeting they were not at. What a damp squib. At least with the play-offs you're at the meeting where your team win the title. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami 10,219 Posted September 24, 2014 The point being made is that Poole would have won the league at a meeting they were not at. What a damp squib. At least with the play-offs you're at the meeting where your team win the title. Yes. In the old way of League champs It would have been between 2 teams in the EL at the end, with the rest just filling in their fixtures. With the Play Offs, about 6 teams were going for the playoffs, including the favoured two teams. In the PL, two teams would have fought out the PL title the old way, but with the Playoffs, it was about 9 teams still in the hunt at the end to get into the PO's. As Shale Searcher also points out "what really can go wrong with that". Some on here bury their heads, and ignore facts and instances in the pursuit of what's gone in most sports these days. I just hope that the BV advisers outnumber the one on this thread, or I think I might have to get concerned on it's viability. Looking backwards, never gets you to where you want to go forward(just ask any sea captain). 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vincent Blachshadow 2,937 Posted September 24, 2014 (edited) Much is being made of the fact that the team with most money will win the championship by virtue of being able to throw most at the best guest available. Is that really the way a season-long competition should be decided, by scrapping to procure the best rider available from another club's team for a couple of matches? At least during a season injuries, bad luck, poor refs usually even themselves out. Edited September 24, 2014 by Vincent Blackshadow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami 10,219 Posted September 24, 2014 Who was it that said "You contribute nothing to the Play Offs debate, because it is the same old, same old." When I repeated this paragraph several times in my original post it wasn't a mistake, lol! "The pokc sycophants told me that the pokc was brilliant because it attracted huge attendances for the finals and created more meaningful meetings for the mediocre mid table teams. Besides if I was right about the pokc affecting attendances then getting rid would see an increase in attendances, completely ignoring all the other factors affecting attendances." The 'benefits' (fwiw) of the pokc have been acknowledged, how is that burying heads in sand? In fact the only people doing the 'head burying' are the ones who fail to acknowledge the negatives of the pokc which, although quite subtle in the pokc infancy, have become more and more pronounced each and every year. Me, and it was directed toward TWK Rubbish Only if you were trying o believe it Much is being made of the fact that the team with most money will win the championship by virtue of being able to throw most at the best guest available. Is that really the way a season-long competition should be decided, by scrapping to procure the best rider available from another club's team for a couple of matches? At least during a season injuries, bad luck, poor refs usually even themselves out. Getting the best guest to replace someone of the same average, Wow, now there's a thing, something that happens every week of the season of course. It does mean that the teams can still fight evenly in the playoffs, and defuse the imbalance of an injury to a rider. Same as what would happen during the previous system, so what's so different. So by your inference, the old system should be retained, and the extra meetings and income should be stopped, incase someone gets a wee help by getting a guest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vincent Blachshadow 2,937 Posted September 24, 2014 Me, and it was directed toward TWK Rubbish Only if you were trying o believe it Getting the best guest to replace someone of the same average, Wow, now there's a thing, something that happens every week of the season of course. It does mean that the teams can still fight evenly in the playoffs, and defuse the imbalance of an injury to a rider. Same as what would happen during the previous system, so what's so different. So by your inference, the old system should be retained, and the extra meetings and income should be stopped, incase someone gets a wee help by getting a guest. Well, what a surprise. I post I would prefer a championship to be decided by a team's efforts throughout the season when incidences of injuries and the like even out between all the teams rather than by a scramble to beat the opposition for the services of some other team's rider to win it for you over a couple of matches and you answer, what it is Drop a cog's posted, '....they're brilliant because they attract huge attendances.......' What is it you posted, oh yes, 'the same old same old'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami 10,219 Posted September 24, 2014 Well, what a surprise. I post I would prefer a championship to be decided by a team's efforts throughout the season when incidences of injuries and the like even out between all the teams rather than by a scramble to beat the opposition for the services of some other team's rider to win it for you over a couple of matches and you answer, what it is Drop a cog's posted, '....they're brilliant because they attract huge attendances.......' What is it you posted, oh yes, 'the same old same old'. If I was you I would read it again, and the context he(DaC) said it. VB - same old, same old. You never change. I like the colour coding. I'm not clever enough to do it though. Agreed Red- It doesn't really matter who the original comment was aimed at, that, as I'm sure you realise wasn't the reason for the quote. Maybe Blue - I couldn't think of a better way of putting it! (Well I could but it would be very sarcastic and possibly slightly offensive to the person(s) who did post that) Sarcasm again, must reread those BV New Stadium posts again, getting more concerned. Turquoise? - two Kings Lynn fans at a meeting to decide if they finish top! Do you really think only two would have turned up if a win would have clinched the league title? Like I said (or you said?) 'burying head in sand'. Bit of a dreamer ah. Yes, there would be a decent crowd, but the PO'S deliver MORE big meetings. I'm surprised you've chosen to offer an alternative to VB's post but I'll leave him to discuss it with you. Many Thanks I'm off to watch eposode 1 and 2 of 'Mount Pleasant' back to back. How good is that? Doesn't get any better, eh. See ya! Don't think so Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vincent Blachshadow 2,937 Posted September 24, 2014 (edited) If I was you I would read it again, and the context he(DaC) said it. VB - same old, same old. You never change. No, I think I've got it right. Maybe you'd like to read my initial post again and see the point I was making. It wasn't the use of guests per se. Edited September 24, 2014 by Vincent Blackshadow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami 10,219 Posted September 25, 2014 (edited) No, I think I've got it right. Maybe you'd like to read my initial post again and see the point I was making. It wasn't the use of guests per se. Your first post was post 42 which was about guests, and my reply in the second half of post 43 WAS about the use of guests. References about increased attendances was in reply to DaC's sarcasm and none acceptance of them. One huge whoooosssshhhh (answer to blue) a couple of standard whooshes and one baby whoosh, and a proper 'head in sand' moment, all in one post! Good work, lol! Sounds like a lot of hot air from you. Whoosh. Nowt changes. Edited September 25, 2014 by Tsunami Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
