The Somerset Mystery

[Willowman 212]

Have you really just used Simon Walker as proof of a lack of home track advantage? He had an 8 point home average and a 4 point away average. Yes he was great to watch at Somerset but some of the worst proof ever of a lack of home advantage.

 

For the record, Somerset have always had a pretty good home advantage.

No, as an example of a racer. Perhaps a poor example but certainly used --- damn it, was going to say, used all the racing lines, but a rather poor example in both the case of Simon and GC as they just got out into the dirt on the outside. I was really trying to give examples of racers rather than gaters who were well known for being so at Somerset.

 

I would disagree with the "good home advantage" suggestion as I thought that the OTA has also been regarded as a fair racing circuit. You just need to recall the meetings in front of the Sky cameras to see that. Surely trick tracks like Rye are the ones with a "good home advantage" , not the OTA. Never heard any suggestion anywhere else that the OTA had a good home advantage. What do others think?

 

Excuse my ignorance scb but if (and only if) you are a Sheffield supporter, then how can you say the OTA has a good home advantage with the Tigers record at the OTA?

 

Didnt think I would get quite so sucked into the discussion but I am enjoying reading the thread.

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

The OTA and EOES are both fabulous racing tracks, providing high speed entertainment. I would never do a 180 mile round trip to watch 'from the gate' speedway'. Some smaller tracks also provide good racing, Wolves and Mildenhall being prime examples. I am a regular at Ipswich, Mildenhall and Boro, but the Showground easily provides the best racing...

 

I agree and if you haven't been there, try Plymouth.

 

The first bends at SBA are without doubt the best in British Speedway - its often a case of looking away because there's going to be carnage.

 

Thankfully, that rarely happens.

[lewy 2,326]

The 2nd 3rd and 4th aint bad aswell:-)

[rogero 19]

The 2nd 3rd and 4th aint bad aswell:-)

Agreed Lewy.

 

I live 163 miles away from my beloved home city of Plymouth so I often have to make do with trips to Poole and Swindon for my speedway fix as they are reasonably close in comparison. After 55 years of watching speedway I can genuinely report that the whole experience at Plymouth's St Boniface Arena is superb, the best in the UK ... atmosphere, view (right on top of the track in places) and first class, competitive racing. Unless you've been there a few times you have no idea. Try it!

[Bagpuss 10,784]

Willowman, look at Somerset's home record since they went PL. Very strong at home, even when they've not finished very high in the table. They had riders in the past with much higher home averages than away ones.

 

That is hone advantage, regardless of how fair / tricky a track is deemed.

[SCB 0]

Willowman - just because Sheffield have home advantage doesn't mean Somerset can't. Somerset have always scored a lot more at home than away. I don't think it's an unfair track by any stretch of the imagination and you'll see my previous posts I've said how great a track it is but that doesn't alter the fact the track has lays had a reasonable amount of home track advantage.

 

A few years back I took every teams home and away scores over a 4 or 5 year period as a % and Somerset come out quite high. Sheffield and Edinburgh also come out high. At the time Stoke and Reading were quite low.

[TOPLIDD 7]

The 2nd 3rd and 4th aint bad aswell:-)

Lol.... There is only 1 bend a Plymouth.... That's why they bought a kids round paddling pool for an air fence

[Willowman 212]

Willowman - just because Sheffield have home advantage doesn't mean Somerset can't. Somerset have always scored a lot more at home than away. I don't think it's an unfair track by any stretch of the imagination and you'll see my previous posts I've said how great a track it is but that doesn't alter the fact the track has lays had a reasonable amount of home track advantage.

 

A few years back I took every teams home and away scores over a 4 or 5 year period as a % and Somerset come out quite high. Sheffield and Edinburgh also come out high. At the time Stoke and Reading were quite low.

It is amazing how you think you have made what seems to be an unambiguous statement only for it to be interpreted in a totally different way, so apologies for that. I wasn't referring to Sheffield having home advantage at all, more that Sheffield have always (well until recently) consistently performed well at Somerset suggesting the fairness of the track and thus minimal home advantage due to the track. I agree that in the past few years that Somerset have scored well at home but that has been due to the strength of the team and not anything to do with the home advantage of the track.

 

If my memory serves me correctly (as I have been there to witness things from the start -- where is Najjer when you need him, oh yes, "down the float"), when we first went PL we scraped wins at home but scored badly away. As the years have gone on we have managed to gain a bit more consistency with winning at home and put in better performances away. In recent years we have demolished teams at home and performed well away. Of course there has been the odd season bucking the trend but I am talking about the general trend. My point is though that this is more due to progress that has been made in putting teams together rather than anything to do with the track. I would still say that the track offers away teams the opportunity to do well if they care to take up the challenge. This is what Sheffield were, until recently, very good at doing at the OTA.

 

Unfortunately I have neither the stats data or the time to back up my claims so just working from memory and intuition. What I would like to do is look at what the losses were at home when we were neither (oops, missed that one off) near the top of the table or near the bottom, i.e. just an average side. It goes without saying that if you have a strong team who end up near the top of the league table you are going to win all your home meetings (or at least you would think so) and likewise loose many at home if you're near the bottom. Mid table would give a better idea. I still however maintain that Somerset do not have much, if any, home advantage due to the track. But hey, ho, that is only my opinion.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Willowman

[Lioness 1,455]

it just goes to prove where the comment lies damn lies and stats comes from! Stats are fascinating and often reveal things you dont realise but sport and entertainment are subjective. For speedway, your opinion (and that of any fan) is more important than stats as that is what gets you back through the gate

[drew2 252]

 

If my memory serves me correctly (as I have been there to witness things from the start -- where is Najjer when you need him, oh yes, "down the float"),

**down the cart** He is member of a Bridgy club now! :-)

[Knowle 51]

Great track to watch speedway. Would be even better if they had put the standing area on the home straight nearer the track.

[SCB 0]

it just goes to prove where the comment lies damn lies and stats comes from! Stats are fascinating and often reveal things you dont realise but sport and entertainment are subjective. For speedway, your opinion (and that of any fan) is more important than stats as that is what gets you back through the gate

But you can't use stats to prove a point and then ignore them when they disprove your point

 

Arguing that that you used to win at home by a little bit but lose away is not home track advantage is a barmy logic. If a team scored 65 at home and 65 away they are a good team with 0 home track advantage. If a team scores 30 at home and 30 away they're a poor team with zero home track advantage. If you're a team that scores 46 at home and 36 away you're a poor team with a reasonable home track advantage, if you score 56 at home and 43 away you're a good team with the same reasonable home track advantage.

 

From that, although you can determine the level of home track advantage you cannot possible say which track is the more exciting.

 

The issue is people using stats badly. Not using stats. There is absolutely zero correlation between the entertainment levels of a track the level of home track advantage as some Somerset fans have tried to argue for years.

[Phlipphlopp 3,913]

 

 

For the record, Somerset have always had a pretty good home advantage.

Every home team has an advantage , that hasnt changed since 1928. Familiarity always gives riders an edge , but not a given against decent opposition. For home advantage think Exeter , some riders crapped themselves at the County Ground , others attacked it and mastered it. Same as most tracks i guess , none are the same.

[waiheke1 4,295]

 

Arguing that that you used to win at home by a little bit but lose away is not home track advantage is a barmy logic. If a team scored 65 at home and 65 away they are a good team with 0 home track advantage. If a team scores 30 at home and 30 away they're a poor team with zero home track advantage. If you're a team that scores 46 at home and 36 away you're a poor team with a reasonable home track advantage, if you score 56 at home and 43 away you're a good team with the same reasonable home track advantage.

 

From that, although you can determine the level of home track advantage you cannot possible say which track is the more exciting.

 

.

Of course, what it could show is that you recruit riders with a liking for a particular type of track (your own) which will mean you perform better at home than away. Is that the same as saying the track gives you home advantage?

Im thinking of the aces tesm of 84, which was utterly dominant at home but dropped away points cost them the title. Hyde rd was commonly regarded as a "fair" track. But the likes of Smith carr and courtney who all excelled on bigctracks but struggled on smaller ones all averaged at least a couple of points more at home than away. Home sdvantage, or natursl result of developing/signing a psrticular type of rider?

[Willowman 212]

Of course, what it could show is that you recruit riders with a liking for a particular type of track (your own) which will mean you perform better at home than away. Is that the same as saying the track gives you home advantage?

Im thinking of the aces tesm of 84, which was utterly dominant at home but dropped away points cost them the title. Hyde rd was commonly regarded as a "fair" track. But the likes of Smith carr and courtney who all excelled on bigctracks but struggled on smaller ones all averaged at least a couple of points more at home than away. Home sdvantage, or natursl result of developing/signing a psrticular type of rider?

Very good point.

What we have been discussing from the theme of the thread is the OTA track.

'advantage': "a condition or circumstance that puts one in a favourable or superior position." Thus track advantage means things such as adverse camber, tight bend entry, squared off bends, long fast straights, hard metal fencing, etc. I don't think the OTA has any such condition. I don't dispute (especially in the last three years) that we have had rider advantage at home, even away too.