stevebrum 6,834 Posted October 24, 2014 Basically he was over ruled on a number of things. Rumours suggest he has quit being in charge if the draft. Be good to hear his side on this then. Either way something has a funny smell. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
g13webb 4,254 Posted October 24, 2014 What about limiting the FTD to just position 7 in the team, then exclude the the top riders from the 2014 FTD and are all just given their converted PL averages and can be placed in the remaining 1-6? As you can see below, the best 2014 FTD riders PL av's compare favorably to the riders who 'missed out' in 2014 so throwing them all together for 2015 may not be so bad? Would King's Lynn pick Lewis Kerr on a 4.15 average? I think they would! Newman would be a steal on a 3.52 whilst Swindon could get Ashley Birks back on his old EL average which correct me if I'm wrong is around 3 (he has had terrible injury troubles). I think that this feels quite fair? Kyle Newman - PL 5.86 = 3.52 CON EL Lewis Blackbird - PL 6.30 = 3.78 CON EL Lewis Kerr - PL 6.92 = 4.15 CON EL Stevie Worrall - PL 8.07 = 4.84 CON EL Jason Garrity - PL 6.19 = 3.71 CON EL Charles Wright - PL 6.92 = 4.15 CON EL Kyle Howarth - PL 6.19 Ashley Birks - PL 5.65 Josh Auty - PL 6.50 I see your logic of what you say in the short term, but its creates a long term problems, in that next year there will be more FTR's going in the 1 to 6, and the following year even more. In 6 yrs time our teams will be full of FTR. and the exciting foreign talent will be gone forever.... Surely these riders would benefit more by continuing at reserve for longer than a year. (Probably 2 or even 3 would be better) I don't see any reason why all those riders listed above, can't be included into the FT system, The scheme should be aiming to acquire at least 2 decent young British riders for each team in the league . We want the FTR scheme to be the way forward of nourishing and educating these riders. By off loading them after a year is not the way to do it...... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratton 1,491 Posted October 24, 2014 I see your logic of what you say in the short term, but its creates a long term problems, in that next year there will be more FTR's going in the 1 to 6, and the following year even more. In 6 yrs time our teams will be full of FTR. and the exciting foreign talent will be gone forever.... Surely these riders would benefit more by continuing at reserve for longer than a year. (Probably 2 or even 3 would be better) I don't see any reason why all those riders listed above, can't be included into the FT system, The scheme should be aiming to acquire at least 2 decent young British riders for each team in the league . We want the FTR scheme to be the way forward of nourishing and educating these riders. By off loading them after a year is not the way to do it...... Those riders for me are aiming at being a top1/5 rider in the EL,if they do that progress has been made,Newman a prime example can he cut it in the top five ?i hope so he has improved the top five is a different ball game that's why I think Lambert has done really well no heat 2s to get confidence from. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
g13webb 4,254 Posted October 24, 2014 Those riders for me are aiming at being a top1/5 rider in the EL,if they do that progress has been made,Newman a prime example can he cut it in the top five ?i hope so he has improved the top five is a different ball game that's why I think Lambert has done really well no heat 2s to get confidence from. Sidney, I agree when you say Lambert has done well this year riding in the full team, but to me Newman has made bigger strides riding in the FTR. I sure Lambert would have benefitted far more had he elected to have done the same. Following on from what I said in the previous post, I don't necessary agree with the current race program and feel the FTR should be competing with more accomplished riders as well. They need to compete against them as well as riding with them........ I don't believe we need TWO FTR races and heat nine could be the one to change.... I think it is wrong that the reserves have more winning powers than that of the heat leaders.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crazy robin 2,970 Posted October 24, 2014 Basically he was over ruled on a number of things. Rumours suggest he has quit being in charge if the draft. Over ruled by who as he was the main man in charge & why did he not walk if that was the case? When you look at how some of the draft riders did in the Premier Lge then that surely gives a clearer view of their true ability or is it that they had better kit in the Elite lge?. Look at where some of them finished in the Premier lge averages & the journeyman riders who finished above them. It can give a rider confidence that is a big thing but do you really think any of them can cut it in a Elite because I don't & surely that has to be a reality check. Did Kyle Newman really makes great strides as his Premier Lge average doesn't show it?. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ben91 1,743 Posted October 25, 2014 Over ruled by who as he was the main man in charge & why did he not walk if that was the case? When you look at how some of the draft riders did in the Premier Lge then that surely gives a clearer view of their true ability or is it that they had better kit in the Elite lge?. Look at where some of them finished in the Premier lge averages & the journeyman riders who finished above them. It can give a rider confidence that is a big thing but do you really think any of them can cut it in a Elite because I don't & surely that has to be a reality check. Did Kyle Newman really makes great strides as his Premier Lge average doesn't show it?. Exactly these points that are highlighted. For all those raving about Garrity, he didn't look an inch a better rider than he was last year before he was injured in the Premier League. Lewis Blackbird and Steve Worrall are the major successes of the FTD, not Garrity and Newman, the reason they have improved however is the fact that they are getting more track time than ever, not because that track time is coming in the EL. Go back to the start of the season, most PL reserve pairings were stronger on paper than their EL counterparts. That is not right no matter what anyone says. If we're going to fast track riders lets do it right and implement a system across the three divisions and below that will help talented, up and coming British riders to reach the Elite League when they deserve to be there and hopefully beyond. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
B.V 72 1,054 Posted October 25, 2014 The fast track system was designed to bring on british riders which in my mind it has.This year it has sorted out the riders that can handle the elite league from those that cannot.So why not carry on and in hope some riders will improve more.Other countrys keep there own grown riders at reserve for a few years giving then time to improve so why dont we. For me there are 5 riders that have stood out Blackbird.Kerr,Garrity.Newman and Worrall if they give say Auty.Birks and Roynon their chance that gives you 8 fairly matched riders to ride in the no 6 position whatever club gets whatever rider i think that they are all a good match for each other.But this year dont protect them 1 reserve race and let them progress in tougther races. Then for the no 7 place there are say 10 riders to chose from that have shown this year that they can handle this position Wright,Ellis,Nielsen,Starke,Morris Jacobs Rose,Perry,Sargent and Greenwood if a format can be devised to keep them away from heat leaders then let them battle it out with the no 6s and the 2nd strings. So in my thinking this year has sorted out the riders that are either not ready yet or not good enougth the above riders can all hold their own in their no 6 or no 7 position so no team will have a rider that is out of his depth like this year So lets keep it going and give them all the chance that the draft system was supposed to give them if they dont it will all have been a waste of time.Which ever way they go i hope that they keep the reserve positions for British riders only. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
noggin 1,391 Posted October 25, 2014 Next season should be one place #7 for a fast draft rider, #6 should be for the likes of newman garrity etc + birks auty roynon and so on and team average should be for top6 with your brit reserve able to progress to top 5 but only if you have another brit in team, no foreigner dropping to #6 for easy rides, some of this years #7 should be no where near the EL some wouldn't make a PL reserve, 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arnieg 3,700 Posted October 25, 2014 Looking at PL averages one of the biggest young British improves was Charles Wright (fantastic @ Somerset last night). Shows the benefit of the fast track draft. ....oh hang on a minute 😯 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
B.V 72 1,054 Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) Next season should be one place #7 for a fast draft rider, #6 should be for the likes of newman garrity etc + birks auty roynon and so on and team average should be for top6 with your brit reserve able to progress to top 5 but only if you have another brit in team, no foreigner dropping to #6 for easy rides, some of this years #7 should be no where near the EL some wouldn't make a PL reserve, As stated in my earlier post i think we should keep 2 draft riders and keep them at reserve as other countries do.As stated again in my earlier post as part of the learning process give the no 6s tougther rides.I dont think they should be rushed,let then develop in their own time without the preasure of riding in the teams 1 to 5 positions,they can have this preasure with their Premier league team. As you state yourself we dont want any foreign rider dropping to reserve gaining the experience that our own riders should be getting,As there is no way you could stop this happening as having another Brit in the team does not mean he will be the rider to drop into the reserve position.If a foreign rider is not good enougth for a top 5 position he should be replaced and sent home to his own countrys league where he should learn his trade there and not be allowed to drop down to reserve and learn here at the cost of our own riders development. Now if a draft rider starts to beat 2nd strings for fun home and away then the draft will have done its job and he can then move up to the teams top 5 next season Looking at PL averages one of the biggest young British improves was Charles Wright (fantastic @ Somerset last night). Shows the benefit of the fast track draft. ....oh hang on a minute Wright had lots and lots of guest bookings as a draft rider so i would say yes the draft has helped in his development this year Edited October 25, 2014 by B.V 72 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arnieg 3,700 Posted October 25, 2014 Only six guest bookings - and all before the World Cup break Wright had lots and lots of guest bookings as a draft rider so i would say yes the draft has helped in his development this year Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
B.V 72 1,054 Posted October 25, 2014 Only six guest bookings - and all before the World Cup break Wright had lots and lots of guest bookings as a draft rider so i would say yes the draft has helped in his development this year Wow 10 years a rider and not a lot and then only 6 draft rider meetings and he comes on leaps and bounds just think what he could have done if he had done a full season lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crazy robin 2,970 Posted October 25, 2014 What about limiting the FTD to just position 7 in the team, then exclude the the top riders from the 2014 FTD and are all just given their converted PL averages and can be placed in the remaining 1-6? As you can see below, the best 2014 FTD riders PL av's compare favorably to the riders who 'missed out' in 2014 so throwing them all together for 2015 may not be so bad? Would King's Lynn pick Lewis Kerr on a 4.15 average? I think they would! Newman would be a steal on a 3.52 whilst Swindon could get Ashley Birks back on his old EL average which correct me if I'm wrong is around 3 (he has had terrible injury troubles). I think that this feels quite fair? Kyle Newman - PL 5.86 = 3.52 CON EL Lewis Blackbird - PL 6.30 = 3.78 CON EL Lewis Kerr - PL 6.92 = 4.15 CON EL Stevie Worrall - PL 8.07 = 4.84 CON EL Jason Garrity - PL 6.19 = 3.71 CON EL Charles Wright - PL 6.92 = 4.15 CON EL Kyle Howarth - PL 6.19 Ashley Birks - PL 5.65 Josh Auty - PL 6.50 So Kyle Newman gets a Elite lge average 1.32 points less than Steve Worrall based on their Premier lge averages?. How is that fair??????? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrlincolncity 126 Posted October 25, 2014 As stated in my earlier post i think we should keep 2 draft riders and keep them at reserve as other countries do.As stated again in my earlier post as part of the learning process give the no 6s tougther rides.I dont think they should be rushed,let then develop in their own time without the preasure of riding in the teams 1 to 5 positions,they can have this preasure with their Premier league team. As you state yourself we dont want any foreign rider dropping to reserve gaining the experience that our own riders should be getting,As there is no way you could stop this happening as having another Brit in the team does not mean he will be the rider to drop into the reserve position.If a foreign rider is not good enougth for a top 5 position he should be replaced and sent home to his own countrys league where he should learn his trade there and not be allowed to drop down to reserve and learn here at the cost of our own riders development. Now if a draft rider starts to beat 2nd strings for fun home and away then the draft will have done its job and he can then move up to the teams top 5 next season 100% bang on! sick of seeing foreign riders gaining easy rides at reserve when that can easily be filled with a young brit 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebrum 6,834 Posted October 25, 2014 Looking at PL averages one of the biggest young British improves was Charles Wright (fantastic @ Somerset last night). Shows the benefit of the fast track draft. ....oh hang on a minute Not sure that 26 counts as young! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
