The White Knight 9,039 Posted January 7, 2015 You are rewriting history again WK. The rot had started a LONG time before the GP's started. That's true actually - but crucially - BSI/GP Series certainly sped things up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,556 Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Also - at least British Speedway picked up some revenue (badly needed nowadays) from the old World Final - as far as I understand it gets bugger all from BSI for the GPs. That is, at least in part, where the rot started. BSI only took over the commercial rights of the GPs in 2000. I believe from 1995-1999, the BSPA organised the British GP and showcased our sport at Bradford, Coventry and Hackney. Actually that is commercially more lucrative than one World Final at Bradford every five years. Don't know about you, but I don't recall this as a particularly golden era where the funds flooded to the development of British Speedway. Do you? The BSPA didn't have the vision/acumen/balls (call it what you will) to stage a World Championship event on a grand stage like the Millennium Stadium. Like them or not, BSI did. That's true actually - but crucially - BSI/GP Series certainly sped things up. Not true. Don't know about you, but I attended a fair few World Championship meetings in the early 1990s. I went to British and Overseas Finals at Coventry, a World Semi at Bradford and World Finals at Bradford and Wroclaw. Problem is, only about 5k came to any of those qualifiers and about 20k to those finals. They were also tucked away on satellite TV when hardly anyone had it. I was in the hard core. But the World Championship was clearly struggling. I saw it with my own eyes. I've been to a few Grand Prix events in recent years and some of them - particularly in Torun and Cardiff - are miles and miles better than the World Championship events under the old format in the 1990s. Thousands must agree as they also attract much bigger crowds. Edited January 7, 2015 by falcace 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted January 7, 2015 That's true actually - but crucially - BSI/GP Series certainly sped things up. Nope, the BSPA's continuing reluctance to move with the times sped things up. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted January 7, 2015 That's true actually - but crucially - BSI/GP Series certainly sped things up.really? I notice you havent responded to my early query about how the 45000 that attend cardiff each year vs the thirty something thousand that attended the odsal world final supports this claim?Or how the british league went from 17 teams in 1980 to 9 teams on 1990, but in 2014 the el started with ten teams? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TonyMac 720 Posted January 7, 2015 The thing is though Tony, it is 2015 not 1975. Whilst I believe there is plenty speedway can learn from the past, there are also innovations like the play-offs and the GPs where speedway has kept pace with changing times and the changing demands of consumers - sorry to drop into marketing-speak. But sport is a business and speedway has to compete for business like every other sport. It's far more competitive that it has ever been. Football was always the UK's biggest sport, but it is now bigger than ever before and shows no signs of its saturation drying up. So speedway has to fight hard with sports like cricket, rugby league, rugby union, basketball and ice hockey for attention. All of these sports use play-offs and any sport that doesn't deliver exciting league competitions every year will simply drop off the radar for a public who - to be frank - has a shorter attention-span with a wider choice than ever before of sporting pleasures. It's noticable that the major competitions that have evolved like the UEFA Champions League, Aviva Premiership, Rugby League Grand Final, Twenty20 Cricket are major successes of recent years. The ones that haven't changed like the FA Cup and Cricket County Championship have regressed. I like to get as nostalgic as the next guy about speedway in the 1980s. But you have to be really honest, if we did go back to a 13 heat formula, straight league without play-offs and re-introduced the old World Final with Intercontinental, Overseas and other qualifiers, would the crowds come flocking back? Would we get better TV coverage? Would sponsors be interested? You are right in all that you say - I was just looking at the past through rose-tinted glasses, as I often do when reflecting on all sports. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted January 8, 2015 really? I notice you havent responded to my early query about how the 45000 that attend cardiff each year vs the thirty something thousand that attended the odsal world final supports this claim? Or how the british league went from 17 teams in 1980 to 9 teams on 1990, but in 2014 the el started with ten teams? 80,000 plus at Wembley. Same thing happened in the Fifties and early Sixties. What does that prove. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted January 8, 2015 You have proved that the decline happened before the gps started, and that gps have slowed/reversed the decline. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted January 8, 2015 You have proved that the decline happened before the gps started, and that gps have slowed/reversed the decline. No I haven't - at times Speedway, for some reason does go in to decline. However there is no way you can say that the GPs have slowed or reversed the decline. What they have done is to be, to a large extent, responsible for the really TOP Riders not racing here in Great Britain any more. As the top Riders have left, so crowds have dropped - it isn't rocket science. Now we are down to the hard core older demographic Supporters, like myself, who will continue to support the Sport until they 'die off'. With very few young Supporters coming along - Speedway will eventually do the same in this Country. So there you are - you are working from a false premise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted January 8, 2015 80,000 plus at Wembley. Same thing happened in the Fifties and early Sixties. What does that prove. That you are wrong No I haven't - at times Speedway, for some reason does go in to decline. However there is no way you can say that the GPs have slowed or reversed the decline. What they have done is to be, to a large extent, responsible for the really TOP Riders not racing here in Great Britain any more. As the top Riders have left, so crowds have dropped - it isn't rocket science. Now we are down to the hard core older demographic Supporters, like myself, who will continue to support the Sport until they 'die off'. With very few young Supporters coming along - Speedway will eventually do the same in this Country. So there you are - you are working from a false premise. Wrong again. The crowds dropped massively BEFORE the GP's. BEFORE any top riders left. The top riders have left because Britiain still operates using an antiquated schedule and has failed to move with the times. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted January 8, 2015 That you are wrong Wrong again. The crowds dropped massively BEFORE the GP's. BEFORE any top riders left. The top riders have left because Britiain still operates using an antiquated schedule and has failed to move with the times. We must agree to differ BW. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,556 Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) No I haven't - at times Speedway, for some reason does go in to decline. However there is no way you can say that the GPs have slowed or reversed the decline. What they have done is to be, to a large extent, responsible for the really TOP Riders not racing here in Great Britain any more. As the top Riders have left, so crowds have dropped - it isn't rocket science. Now we are down to the hard core older demographic Supporters, like myself, who will continue to support the Sport until they 'die off'. With very few young Supporters coming along - Speedway will eventually do the same in this Country. So there you are - you are working from a false premise. I think pig-headed is the right term for this. There's plenty of valid points made above to demonstrate the GPs have not been part of the reason for the decline. Indeed there is plenty to suggest they have given our World Championship a boost from it's dying days of the old format. Yet, you conveniently ignore those and stubbornly plough on with nothing to support your argument. Go back to 1994 - the last year before the GPs. The top riders rode in the UK and we were down to 21 operating clubs (28 today). I don't recall this as being boom time for Britain or the World Championship. Do you? Where I do agree is that league speedway in this country has declined - majorly in the EL. Do I think the answer is to throw loads of money at top riders to bring them back? Well, the Emil Sayfutdinov experiment at Coventry didn't work. Last year we also had a British World Champion in the league. Did this result in big crowds wherever Wolves rode? Quite simply, British Speedway has to offer good racing, decent facilities at a good value. Can it justify exorbitant fees for top riders without big crowds? I don't think so. For me the answers are going without GP riders and regionalisation. This will level out the competition and free up some funds to improve facilities and the overall experience. Currently a night at EL speedway might involve watching uncompetitive 'racing' between riders that are poorly matched on ability from a crumbling, weed-infested terrace and peeing against a brick wall in the dark. In 2015, that's not good enough and that's why families spend their time and money elsewhere. Edited January 8, 2015 by falcace 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted January 8, 2015 We must agree to differ BW. No WK. There is no agreeing to differ. You need understand there is a difference between opinion and fact. You are effectively making something up.. creating a fantasy. It is stone cold fact that the attendances at speedway in the UK dropped massively from 1980 to 1994. Way before a GP was introduced, way before playoffs, way before any of the changes you wish to accredit to being the decline of. speedway. Speaking of Stone Cold.. I'll throw in.. And that's the bottom line because..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted January 8, 2015 No WK. There is no agreeing to differ. You need understand there is a difference between opinion and fact. You are effectively making something up.. creating a fantasy. It is stone cold fact that the attendances at speedway in the UK dropped massively from 1980 to 1994. Way before a GP was introduced, way before playoffs, way before any of the changes you wish to accredit to being the decline of. speedway. Speaking of Stone Cold.. I'll throw in.. And that's the bottom line because..... "Stone Cold says so"!!! :) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,246 Posted November 2, 2015 Not a Carter fan personally. Didn't actually get to see much of him as my team, Oxford, were riding in the National League during his time. What I have of him already on dvd leaves me disliking him as a person and found his attitude irritating to say the least...but he was a Yorkshireman after all! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moxey63 1,785 Posted November 2, 2015 Watched the DVD. Was interested to view clips of the semi-final meet at Oxford. Does anybody have this meeting on video/dvd? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
