Shale Searcher 1,264 Posted January 17, 2015 After nearly every meeting, every post match social media thread, every track fans and wannabe track curator moans about the state of the track... To little dirt, to much dirt out towards the fence, rock hard, bereft of dirt blue grooved areas on the inner racing lines, no grip, to much grip, to much tractor grading, no raking on bends, etc, etc, etc... Are there any Elite League riders out there, that view these pages/threads that would or prepared to tell us fans what they really want track wise? Marshals if anything only remove the shale that has built up during racing off the base of the fence on the bends, and flick it out only to a maximum distance of around 3 feet from the fence... So, what do riders want regards in-meeting track work/grading and why??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barrycuda 184 Posted January 17, 2015 After nearly every meeting, every post match social media thread, every track fans and wannabe track curator moans about the state of the track... To little dirt, to much dirt out towards the fence, rock hard, bereft of dirt blue grooved areas on the inner racing lines, no grip, to much grip, to much tractor grading, no raking on bends, etc, etc, etc... Are there any Elite League riders out there, that view these pages/threads that would or prepared to tell us fans what they really want track wise? Marshals if anything only remove the shale that has built up during racing off the base of the fence on the bends, and flick it out only to a maximum distance of around 3 feet from the fence... So, what do riders want regards in-meeting track work/grading and why??? A bit like chocolates and Bertie Bassetts Allsorts a selection of everything I would thing knowing that different riders like different track preparation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
E I Addio 15,870 Posted January 17, 2015 After nearly every meeting, every post match social media thread, every track fans and wannabe track curator moans about the state of the track... To little dirt, to much dirt out towards the fence, rock hard, bereft of dirt blue grooved areas on the inner racing lines, no grip, to much grip, to much tractor grading, no raking on bends, etc, etc, etc... Are there any Elite League riders out there, that view these pages/threads that would or prepared to tell us fans what they really want track wise? Marshals if anything only remove the shale that has built up during racing off the base of the fence on the bends, and flick it out only to a maximum distance of around 3 feet from the fence... So, what do riders want regards in-meeting track work/grading and why??? Most people that comment about track prep on social media have little idea what is required to keep a track in raceable condition. Track prep,is a black art rather than a science. There is no hand book and much depends on the experience of the track curator. Some are very good, others not so good. With British weather it is virtually impossible to produce a perfect track every week, and often the fans who criticise the track don't realise that in the prevailing weather the track staff have often done a heroic job in getting the meeting on at all. Shale id another thing. Some of the really good shale pits are finished and decent quality shale which is not cheap is getting hard to come by, not just getting the stuff but transporting it to the track can be expensive if it has to come half the length of the country. The reality is that with clubs facing tough economic times they cannot just go out and buy 30 tons of shale every few weeks. In an ideal world the team captain should have some input. Dave Watt one that is very good in that respect, others are not so good. So that are a whole range of variable factors Some tracks have more proficient and better trained track staff than others. The fact that some rakers appear to pick the dirt off the kick boards and flick it 3 feet in does not necessarily mean they don't know what they are doing . Sometimes they are doing this because the track curator will pick it up with the grader and drag it across, but it also depends where the dirt line is. An good raker will watch out for lumps in the wrong places to try to minimise the risk of picking up unnecessary grip, but generally there needs to be a bit more dirt on bends two and four where the riders are accelerating out of the bend and a bit less on bends one and three where they are still sliding the bikes into the bend. The skills required vary from track to track but a lot depends on good communication between the promoter, the captain, the track curator and the rakers, which doesn't always happen. The main thing that riders want is a smooth consistent surface with no unexpected bumps and no erratic wet and dry patches where unexpected grip is picked up. However as I said different tracks need to be treated a bit differently and different track men have different ideas, but there does seem to be a general lack of expertise at some tracks while others are very good. Times change though. I can remember when Len Silver was probably the best trackman in the country. but these days whenever I go to Rye House, 2 or three times a year it all seems to be gate and go . Not sure if I have just been unlucky or whether Uncle Len has lost the plot but he is not the man he was. 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv 10,731 Posted January 17, 2015 This may be a silly question but I havent researched at all. With the prospect of fracking for shale gas will this open up any new shale supplies?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shale Searcher 1,264 Posted January 17, 2015 Perhaps its time to explore/experiment with new surfaces, or at least the top dressing, perhaps there's another or 2 natural/man made material that could be used to good effect? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skidder1 7,670 Posted January 17, 2015 Most decent riders can set their bikes up for most tracks preps. What they want from their home track is week-on-week consistency. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
g13webb 4,254 Posted January 18, 2015 Most people that comment about track prep on social media have little idea what is required to keep a track in raceable condition. Track prep,is a black art rather than a science. There is no hand book and much depends on the experience of the track curator. Some are very good, others not so good. With British weather it is virtually impossible to produce a perfect track every week, and often the fans who criticise the track don't realise that in the prevailing weather the track staff have often done a heroic job in getting the meeting on at all. Shale id another thing. Some of the really good shale pits are finished and decent quality shale which is not cheap is getting hard to come by, not just getting the stuff but transporting it to the track can be expensive if it has to come half the length of the country. The reality is that with clubs facing tough economic times they cannot just go out and buy 30 tons of shale every few weeks. In an ideal world the team captain should have some input. Dave Watt one that is very good in that respect, others are not so good. So that are a whole range of variable factors Some tracks have more proficient and better trained track staff than others. The fact that some rakers appear to pick the dirt off the kick boards and flick it 3 feet in does not necessarily mean they don't know what they are doing . Sometimes they are doing this because the track curator will pick it up with the grader and drag it across, but it also depends where the dirt line is. An good raker will watch out for lumps in the wrong places to try to minimise the risk of picking up unnecessary grip, but generally there needs to be a bit more dirt on bends two and four where the riders are accelerating out of the bend and a bit less on bends one and three where they are still sliding the bikes into the bend. The skills required vary from track to track but a lot depends on good communication between the promoter, the captain, the track curator and the rakers, which doesn't always happen. The main thing that riders want is a smooth consistent surface with no unexpected bumps and no erratic wet and dry patches where unexpected grip is picked up. However as I said different tracks need to be treated a bit differently and different track men have different ideas, but there does seem to be a general lack of expertise at some tracks while others are very good. Times change though. I can remember when Len Silver was probably the best trackman in the country. but these days whenever I go to Rye House, 2 or three times a year it all seems to be gate and go . Not sure if I have just been unlucky or whether Uncle Len has lost the plot but he is not the man he was. A real good informative post. I believe when it comes to preparing track, then Buster is as good as any.. When speaking with him he says that every day could be different.. there are no hard and fast rules, He said you can have a brilliant prepared track at 5pm than come 7 the weather has changed and it not drying out as expected. So more work it needed to get it right. He said it was a never ending challenge to get it right, and some days the weather wins...... A good track man, is worth his weight in gold......... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trees 2,814 Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) A real good informative post. I believe when it comes to preparing track, then Buster is as good as any.. When speaking with him he says that every day could be different.. there are no hard and fast rules, He said you can have a brilliant prepared track at 5pm than come 7 the weather has changed and it not drying out as expected. So more work it needed to get it right. He said it was a never ending challenge to get it right, and some days the weather wins...... A good track man, is worth his weight in gold......... And if a track hasn't got a goodun they should find themselves one..... Edited January 18, 2015 by Trees Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gemini 4,895 Posted January 19, 2015 The fact that some rakers appear to pick the dirt off the kick boards and flick it 3 feet in does not necessarily mean they don't know what they are doing. It would be interesting to know how many tracks still have rakers. Coventry don't. The most I have ever seen in the past was at Berwick with 9 on each bend. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TonyE 822 Posted January 19, 2015 Lakeside still have rakers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPEEDY69 1,282 Posted January 19, 2015 You can never please everyone, nor should we! Some riders do better in slick "full throttle" type surfaces, others where it's grippy or deep, others in the wet but whatever one of those, I think they all like the track to be consistent and not have patches of these variations within the bends. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skidder1 7,670 Posted January 19, 2015 It would be interesting to know how many tracks still have rakers. Coventry don't. The most I have ever seen in the past was at Berwick with 9 on each bend. Poole still have rakers - and sometimes they even use rakes!!!!!!!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
E I Addio 15,870 Posted January 19, 2015 It would be interesting to know how many tracks still have rakers. Coventry don't. The most I have ever seen in the past was at Berwick with 9 on each bend. I don't know what's happened to Coventry. Decent stadium, some of the best fans around and what should be an excellent track but the track prep seems to have gone to pot over recent years. I haven't been for a couple of years but for a few years before that it always seemed to be in need of dirt being dragged back from the fence. I don't know if things have improved but when I read of meeting regularly over-running there I wonder who is lmanaging the presentation. It used to be such a good place to visit. I don't know why they don't seem to have enough track staff. Poole still have rakers - and sometimes they even use rakes!!!!!!!!!!! They have plenty of stirrers as well . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gemini 4,895 Posted January 19, 2015 I don't know if things have improved....... Sadly the answer is 'No' but we live in hope that this season there will be no problems with the track and meetings will be run quickly and smoothly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shale Searcher 1,264 Posted January 24, 2015 All tracks have rakers, just don't rake much anymore. Their roles now are red flag holders... In the pre-eighties, red flags were ONLY used in daytime meetings, when it was said that riders could not see the red stop lights around the perimeter of the track, now red flags are used in all Speedway meetings, also in them days, we had to retrieve crashed bikes during racing! Could be quite scary, we also had to enter the track to pick up anything else that fell off, Inc helmet colours, chains and guards, the only thing we were not responsible for were the riders!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
