Skidder1 7,654 Posted January 25, 2015 it will be interesting to see if Arsenal manage to gain a permit for the uncapped Brazillian they are currently persuing. They will if they complete the paperwork correctly!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paulco 7,100 Posted January 25, 2015 I can understand that point of view Paulco for sure. Again though, this is the whole issue. Work permits aren't and shouldn't be for taking a punt on someone who may or may not make it. They are meant to be for a proven commodity. Leagues have been won in the past with promotions " taking a punt " . Darcy Ward joined Kings Lynn on a 5 point average when he first came over . Ok he was rumoured to have potential , but you just never know how they'll adjust . Ivan Mauger didn't set the heather on fire on his first try on these shores . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv 10,706 Posted January 25, 2015 Although if the PL werent able to 'take a punt' on a few then the EL woukd also be affected as very few are of the standard for them to go straight in at that level. Therefore there does need to be some tolerance in the system which should be realistic criteria. That probably has been about right. There will always be those that bomb out. Where the tightnening needs to be is allowing them to continueon lower averages and clubs getting tge admin right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami 10,219 Posted January 25, 2015 Really Tsunami? Another personal attack I see and yet again nothing of substance to add. Point out something I have said that is wrong and you might have an issue. You've posted a whole load of utter made up nonsense on the thread so far, particularly regarding footballers in the lower leagues and are unable to be adult enough to admit that you were wrong. That speaks volumes Tsunami. Not the first time you've done that though is it. It's not a case of being right or wrong, just the abuse you throw at people who dare to have an alternative point, and the manner of delivery. You can't debate, get over it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted January 25, 2015 Leagues have been won in the past with promotions " taking a punt " . Darcy Ward joined Kings Lynn on a 5 point average when he first came over . Ok he was rumoured to have potential , but you just never know how they'll adjust . Ivan Mauger didn't set the heather on fire on his first try on these shores . That is all completely irrelevant to the issue at hand I'm assuming you must be in favour of open immigration? If not why should being a speedway rider make you exempt from the rules and guidelines that everyone else has to go through? As for Darcy, he was Australian U-21 Champion when he joined Kings Lynn? So he would have qualified anyway. This reinforces the point.. if they are GOOD enough, they meet the criteria. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paulco 7,100 Posted January 25, 2015 Although if the PL werent able to 'take a punt' on a few then the EL woukd also be affected as very few are of the standard for them to go straight in at that level. Therefore there does need to be some tolerance in the system which should be realistic criteria. That probably has been about right. There will always be those that bomb out. Where the tightnening needs to be is allowing them to continueon lower averages and clubs getting tge admin right. I dont see a problem in letting Australians or Americans or whomever in on a 7 point average and given 2 seasons to achieve that . Better a hungry for success Aussie travelling halfway around the world to try and become a successful speedway rider , than some second rate Dane or German trundling round scoring 2 and 3 every meeting . As for the Brit argument , if they're good enough and ambitious enough they'll make it regardless That is all completely irrelevant to the issue at hand I'm assuming you must be in favour of open immigration? If not why should being a speedway rider make you exempt from the rules and guidelines that everyone else has to go through? As for Darcy, he was Australian U-21 Champion when he joined Kings Lynn? So he would have qualified anyway. This reinforces the point.. if they are GOOD enough, they meet the criteria. Immigration is being used to cloud the issue . They are speedway riders , not Romanian benefit claimers . If they don't score , they don't eat . Why strangle sport with red tape where there's never been a problem before . If they ain't good enough , they get shipped out and the promotion that took a punt has seen their gamble fail . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted January 25, 2015 It's not a case of being right or wrong, just the abuse you throw at people who dare to have an alternative point, and the manner of delivery. You can't debate, get over it. Marvellous Tsunami, coming from the man who said.. Members 22,898 posts Posted 23 January 2015 - 08:15 PM BWitcher, on 23 Jan 2015 - 11:12 AM, said: So there isn't an issue. Thankyou for admitting that and rendering your whole point null and void. Bollocks "Legally" is the key word you used there. Legal but you miss the point once again, the applicants are nowhere near 'world class' performers, and in the words of HA, 'capable of putting bums on seats'. You are still banging on about the number of work permit players in the lower leagues. I've asked you to name some, you've not managed to name one as yet... I wonder why that is? And nor will I. The FL realise it, HA has said it and upto date footie fans all know it. If you don't TOUGH. You are the one who used the foul language. You are the one who made up a comment that 'the FL realise it' and all up to date football fans 'know it'.. You are the one who ended it by saying if I don't "TOUGH". That's hardly eloquent debate Tsunami, especially when what you are saying is for far from the truth its shocking. As said, I've been wrong in the past on here and I've apologised and admitted it. Quite clearly, you are incapable of that. Very sad. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami 10,219 Posted January 25, 2015 Marvellous Tsunami, coming from the man who said.. Members 22,898 posts Posted 23 January 2015 - 08:15 PM BWitcher, on 23 Jan 2015 - 11:12 AM, said: You are the one who used the foul language. You are the one who made up a comment that 'the FL realise it' and all up to date football fans 'know it'.. You are the one who ended it by saying if I don't "TOUGH". That's hardly eloquent debate Tsunami, especially when what you are saying is for far from the truth its shocking. Very interesting As said, I've been wrong in the past on here and I've apologised and admitted it. Quite clearly, you are incapable of that. Very sad. When I am wrong to you, you will be the first to hear it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted January 25, 2015 Immigration is being used to cloud the issue . They are speedway riders , not Romanian benefit claimers . If they don't score , they don't eat . Why strangle sport with red tape where there's never been a problem before . If they ain't good enough , they get shipped out and the promotion that took a punt has seen their gamble fail . Again, it's clear you don't understand the situation. They require a work permit. Romanians do not. There is no correlation between the two at all. To obtain a permit to work in the UK you are required to meet certain standards. It is the LAW of the land. What you are saying is you feel that speedway should be exempt from the law? When I am wrong to you, you will be the first to hear it. So you are STILL claiming there is a problem with work permit players in the lower leagues of football? Seriously? Or were you just making things up before? It's one or the other Tsunami. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paulco 7,100 Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Again, it's clear you don't understand the situation. They require a work permit. Romanians do not. There is no correlation between the two at all. To obtain a permit to work in the UK you are required to meet certain standards. It is the LAW of the land. What you are saying is you feel that speedway should be exempt from the law? I am yes , all sport should be . Sport is worldwide entertainment and shouldn't be bound by normal immigration rules . Surely as a speedway fan you want to watch the best riders our clubs can afford regardless of where they happen to come from . And you're in the PL section now , we don't do condescending in here . Not what you're used to maybe , but the sport is more important to us than the wrongs of red tape strangling it . Edited January 25, 2015 by Paulco Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted January 25, 2015 I am yes , all sport should be . Sport is worldwide entertainment and shouldn't be bound by normal immigration rules . Surely as a speedway fan you want to watch the best riders our clubs can afford regardless of where they happen to come from . As a speedway fan I can agree with that.. but as a realist it's not going to happen. Regarding the work permits though, many of the riders mentioned would have got permits ok. It would be interesting to see who, under the criteria, would have been eligible for one and who wasn't. Then we could make an accurate judgement of how much impact it would have on the sport in the UK. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami 10,219 Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Again, it's clear you don't understand the situation. They require a work permit. Romanians do not. There is no correlation between the two at all. To obtain a permit to work in the UK you are required to meet certain standards. It is the LAW of the land. What you are saying is you feel that speedway should be exempt from the law? So you are STILL claiming there is a problem with work permit players in the lower leagues of football? Seriously? Or were you just making things up before? It's one or the other Tsunami. True. EDIT OK, i'll come clean BWitcher. As you will already have found out, it is very difficult to find the circumstances to specifically determine whether a lower league FL player is work permit or not. I had found a piece on visa's, which led me to another interesting one, about a company called Full Contract Law, who are players agents and also specialists in Football Work Permits. (Mel Stein company) Their Senior partner is a guy called Dan Chapman, who handles all work permits in 'lower league football'. Therefore there must be some, otherwise he hasn't got a job. In addition, if you watch Football League matches, there is often a reference as to where a player is from, and, if he is not EU, chances are he must be a work permit player. Edited January 25, 2015 by Tsunami Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruffdiamond 6,115 Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Sense of humour transplant required. :sad: Well I'm sorry BW - I thought it was funny. I don't consider myself ill educated or Racist. I can laugh at Jokes about white (Englishman, Irishman and Scotsman) people too. This is where all this bloody Politically Correct rubbish causes trouble. can't agree with you there,,, it's all the bloody foreigner's,,, Of course it is. It was an off hand joke by KeithM that was meant in fun that the do-gooders on here jumped on straight away. It just demonstrates that even the most harmless remarks can be picked up on, and turned in to something they are not. No the wonder there is so much trouble and prejudice - you get the feeling that some people just can't wait...................................................... really ??? They will if they complete the paperwork correctly!! would that be load's of £50 note's, stuffed into an 'off white' envelope ??? lol ;-) and 1 thing I might say, IMO speedway, to me seem's a prodominantly a white man's sport, rider's, fan's,,, and maybe has gone on doing it's 'dogdy runnings' un-noticed for some time,,, with the public wanting to clamp down on 'immigration',,, maybe it has flagged up at the UKv&i, who might want to know why this is, just a thought,,, Edited January 25, 2015 by ruffdiamond Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted January 25, 2015 True. Seriously Tsunami, I think the point you were trying to make is an ongoing debate in football regarding the number of foreign players in the Premier League and Championship. This is different to work permit players however. As regards the lower leagues, i.e. Leagues 1 & 2, there are very few foreigners and work permit players are almost non-existent. That is the reality of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami 10,219 Posted January 25, 2015 Seriously Tsunami, I think the point you were trying to make is an ongoing debate in football regarding the number of foreign players in the Premier League and Championship. Not true, supplementary info. This is different to work permit players however. I am aware As regards the lower leagues, i.e. Leagues 1 & 2, there are very few foreigners and work permit players are almost non-existent. That is the reality of it. Close See EDIT in post above, typed when you were doing this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
