Humphrey Appleby 13,960 Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) not really nonsense though is it because if you own contract or have brought the rider through your ranks etc then you can command a loan fee or a transfer fee. Of course it's nonsense. Where else in the real world can your employer command a transfer or loan fee when you decide to move jobs? I can accept that a track genuinely developing a rider should derive some compensation when they move on, but many assets are oven-ready foreign riders that a team doesn't really invest much effort in. Teams don't 'own contracts' anyway - riders are only contracted to the team they actually ride for. Riders get paid nothing merely for the 'privilege' of being on a promotion's asset list. The sooner the system is blown out of the water, the better. It has had a LOT to do with work permits. It's one of the scams they have been running. Take a work permit rider on loan and rather than pay for a sponsor license yourself as his employer just employ him on his parent clubs license, despite the fact they don't employ him! Marvellous idea but it seems to have upset the UKV&I Nothing to do with asset lists though, unless an asset is claimed as the result of a rider illegally riding for their initial British team. A rider on loan is contracted to the team he's currently riding for, not his parent team - which is in contravention of the work permit criteria unless a new work permit is applied for. I suppose there's nothing to stop a work permit rider being under actual contract to one team, but loaned to another who compensates the parent team for the cost of the wages. However, I'd guess few promotions are willing to do that as they'd end-up being responsible for any default in the wages. It strike me though, that many of the problems could be avoided if work permit riders were centrally contracted to the BSPA, and then loaned to member clubs as needed. Edited February 6, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AJK86 180 Posted February 6, 2015 Of course it's nonsense. Where else in the real world can your employer command a transfer or loan fee when you decide to move jobs? I can accept that a track genuinely developing a rider should derive some compensation when they move on, but many assets are oven-ready foreign riders that a team doesn't really invest much effort in. Teams don't 'own contracts' anyway - riders are only contracted to the team they actually ride for. Riders get paid nothing merely for the 'privilege' of being on a promotion's asset list. The sooner the system is blown out of the water, the better. Sport is not in the real world though when it comes to contracts just like Football. The Asset system is flawed I agree, because riders are near enough self employed and free agents at end of every season but at least Asset system gives clubs first choice at least and if rider chooses not too then at least said club can get some money for loaning them to somebody or sell them on. When a club is put up for sale the asset list is part of it so if I was to invest in a club I would more than likely go for club with a good asset base rather than a club without one or with poor value riders. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humphrey Appleby 13,960 Posted February 6, 2015 Sport is not in the real world though when it comes to contracts just like Football. Football doesn't have a retain-and-transfer system anymore. The Asset system is flawed I agree, because riders are near enough self employed and free agents at end of every season but at least Asset system gives clubs first choice at least and if rider chooses not too then at least said club can get some money for loaning them to somebody or sell them on. Irrelevant. Riders should be free to ride for whom they please when out-of-contract (subject to the points limit or any other rider control mechanisms). As I said, I think some sort of compensatory system is in order for tracks genuinely developing riders from scratch, but that entitlement should cease after a certain period has elapsed (e.g. when a rider is 21 or in the third year of their career). It should certainly not apply indefinitely. When a club is put up for sale the asset list is part of it so if I was to invest in a club I would more than likely go for club with a good asset base rather than a club without one or with poor value riders. Contrary to popular belief, rider assets have no book value, and relatively little in terms of negotiable value nowadays. There's no guarantee that a rider on the books will ever ride for you, or another British team again (which would derive a transfer or loan fe), and there's the ever-present danger that the asset system will be declared illegal. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruffdiamond 6,115 Posted February 6, 2015 So, I see,,, proper old can of worm's speedway is, hmmm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami 10,219 Posted February 6, 2015 So, I see,,, proper old can of worm's speedway is, hmmm Only if you want it to be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruffdiamond 6,115 Posted February 6, 2015 Only if you want it to be. A no, is' nt it ??? but it would be good to find out where it all went wrong, or right, lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PHILIPRISING 7,298 Posted February 6, 2015 Football doesn't have a retain-and-transfer system anymore. Irrelevant. Riders should be free to ride for whom they please when out-of-contract (subject to the points limit or any other rider control mechanisms). As I said, I think some sort of compensatory system is in order for tracks genuinely developing riders from scratch, but that entitlement should cease after a certain period has elapsed (e.g. when a rider is 21 or in the third year of their career). It should certainly not apply indefinitely. Contrary to popular belief, rider assets have no book value, and relatively little in terms of negotiable value nowadays. There's no guarantee that a rider on the books will ever ride for you, or another British team again (which would derive a transfer or loan fe), and there's the ever-present danger that the asset system will be declared illegal. IN full agreement with you Humphrey! And please don't ask for an editorial ... wrote many on the subject when I was in the Editor's chair but fell on deaf ears then as it would now. The late John Perrin came close to challenging the system when he signed Jason Crump but didn't want to be the one to open the flood gates. But I am surprised that no rider hasn't actually challenged the notion that he is 'owned' by a track despite not having a valid contract and, in many cases, not for many years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weatherwatcher 664 Posted February 6, 2015 It is just ridiculas that a club can have so many riders as assets, if a club wanted to really call the shots could they actually stop a rider going to another club, I doubt it very much, Half of the names on the list have not been in a regular team place for the club they are an asset to, it is just stuppid to say that they are an asset to the club until they decide they don't want them any longer then try to make a fast buck out of them as with Jason Doyle with Leicester and Swindon. Swindon haven't wanted his services for years now all of a sudden they want a large amount of money from the Lions Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WembleyLion 413 Posted February 6, 2015 No teams own any riders although some seem to think they do when it suits them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Panda 366 Posted February 6, 2015 Poole also have Josh Grajczonek on their books................. RP Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T.N.T. 355 Posted February 7, 2015 There are quite a lot of changes to these line ups, but here are some of them ... Found a list of assets that was compiled a while ago so thought i'd ask who "belongs" where? (i'll add the PL later) Belle Vue Billy Forsberg Jason Garrity - RYE HOUSE (soon to be ...... ) Charlie Gjedde Patrick Hougaard Lukasz Jankowski Tomasz Jedrzejak Kaj Laukkanen Michal Rajkowski Richie Worrall Steve Worrall Coventry Oliver Allen = Sold to .. ? Josh Auty Scunthorpe Ben Barker Chris Harris Ryan Fisher Jordan Frampton Greg Hancock Kyle Hughes Billy Janniro Andreas Jonsson Edward Kennett Scott Nicholls Przemyslaw Pawlicki Adam Roynon James Sargeant Rory Schlein Kings Lynn Filip Sitera - ? Martin Smolinski Ricky Wells Wolverhampton Kings Lynn Adam Allott James Brundle Scott Campos Shane Colvin Linus Eklof Henka Gustafsson Trevor Harding Christian Henry ? Jan Jaros Lewis Kerr Jake Knight Simon Lambert Henning Loof Adam Lowe Grant MacDonald Norbert Magosi Jari Makinen Darren Mallett Marek Mroz Rhys Naylor Tomasz Piszcz Chris Schramm Kozza Smith Thomas Stange Shaun Tacey Tomas Topinka Sebastian Truminski Shane Waldron Chris Widman Casper Wortmann Couldn't really comment on most of these apart from saying its about £3,000 in total Rory Schlein Robert Lambert Niklas Porsing Lakeside Henning Bager Daniel Davidsson Jonas Davidsson Jerran Hart Shane Hazeldon Paul Hurry Peter Ljung Robert Mear Andreas Messing Kauko Nieminen Marc Owen Stuart Robson Newcastle Adam Shields Lubos Tomicek Mikkel Bech Adam Ellis Leicester Ilya Bondarenko Jamie Courtney Jan Graversen John Oliver Symon Wozniak Poole Andrew Aldridge Dennis Andersson Aaron Baseby Mark Baseby Craig Boyce Jason Bunyan Jason Crump Jason Doyle Freddie Eriksson Daniel Halsey Gary Havelock Jay Herne Chris Holder James Holder Kyle Howarth Krzysztof Kasprzak Ricky Kling Antonio Lindback Leon Madsen Artur Mroczka Bjarne Pedersen Piotr Protasiewicz John Resch David Ruud Tomas Suchanek Piotr Swist Greg Walasek Darcy Ward Craig Watson Davey Watt Magnus Zetterstrom Vaclav Millik Josh Gracjzonek ? Dakota North Swindon Leigh Adams Sebastain Alden Tomasz Chrzanowski Renat Gafurov Cory Gathercole Manuel Hauzinger Kenny Ingalls Maciej Janowski - Poole Thomas H Jonasson - Poole Mads Korneliussen Travis McGowan Adrian Miedzinski Jurica Pavlic Darryl Ritchings Justin Sedgeman Ryan Sedgeman Simon Stead Sheffield Richard Sweetman Grzegorz Zengota Wolverhampton James Grieves Joe Haines Kenneth Hansen Christian Hefenbrock David Howe Peter Karlsson Chris Kerr Nicolai Klindt Freddie Lindgren Ashley Morris Nicki Pedersen Ty Proctor Adam Skornicki Hynek Stichauer Sebastian Ulamek Tai Woffinden Piotr Pawlicki Mikael Max Tyson Burmeister Tobiasz Musielak Krzysztof Jablonski Krzysztof Pecyna Sam Ermolenko =Ronnie Correy Think there is much more updated lists elsewhere to look at Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Panda 366 Posted February 7, 2015 Josh became a full asset at Poole towards the end of the 2013 season.............you have also missed out Kyle Newman................ RP Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted February 7, 2015 Stuart Robson is still Lakesides. And Olly Allen is still Coventrys. Other wise I think most of TNTs changes are correct Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HenryW 1,178 Posted February 8, 2015 Think there is much more updated lists elsewhere to look atYou have to wonder why the full list isn't on the BSPA site... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdmc82 2,878 Posted February 8, 2015 Isn't Kyle Howarth a Workington asset now? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
