The White Knight 9,039 Posted March 15, 2015 Perfectly reasonable example is Risager. Im sure Sidney could start a fight in a room on his own! Justin Elkins, Ben Howe , 2 more examples of riders who didnt go forward. Mark Loram was riding British league at 16 and i think averaged 4.5 from reserve. All depends if Lambert wants it enough or in 2 - 3 years could be another David Howe or Simon Stead. Good riders short of top class you forget Mark Loram. the most talented rider ive ever seen and safe as well im not sure then that you have ever read about speedway properly. Risager was always dubbed the 'new Nielsen' and at 16 was probably ahead of Nielsen and Gundersen at that age, Very selective memory you have Yes he was try reading what people are telling you. I take it you never saw Mauger, Briggo, Ronnie Moore, Peter Collins, Malcolm Simmons or any of that ilk then. You can't have done. :sad: 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,615 Posted March 15, 2015 I take it you never saw Mauger, Briggo, Ronnie Moore, Peter Collins, Malcolm Simmons or any of that ilk then. You can't have done. :sad: That is why he said the best rider he had seen .... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted March 15, 2015 That is why he said the best rider he had seen .... That is why I queried it. :rolleyes: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gavan 5,050 Posted March 15, 2015 I take it you never saw Mauger, Briggo, Ronnie Moore, Peter Collins, Malcolm Simmons or any of that ilk then. You can't have done. :sad: simmons only in his late career and for all round ability I would put Loram ahead of him Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted March 15, 2015 I take it you never saw Mauger, Briggo, Ronnie Moore, Peter Collins, Malcolm Simmons or any of that ilk then. You can't have done. :sad: Mauger wasn't what is referred to as a 'naturally talented rider'. I thought that was pretty much well documented? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,997 Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) It's all a matter of personal opinion.I saw Simmons a fair bit and wouldn't rate him among those others TWK listed.Nowhere near them really.Wasn't a big Simmo fan,and would rate Loram higher.In fact it took Simmo quite a while to really get going didn't it?He started out mid 60s and didn't hit the top until mid 70s.... Edited March 15, 2015 by iris123 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted March 15, 2015 It's all a matter of personal opinion.I saw Simmons a fair bit and wouldn't rate him among those others TWK listed.Nowhere near them really.Wasn't a big Simmo fan,and would rate Loram higher.In fact it took Simmo quite a while to really get going didn't it?He started out mid 60s and didn't hit the top until mid 70s.... Aahh - but he spent a long while playing second fiddle to Terry Betts at Kings Lynn. When he moved to Poole he was superb. He was probably one of the most talented motorcyclists of his day. BW perhaps Mauger was not the most naturally talented Rider - but he was most certainly one of the most talented Riders I have seen. He did it the hard way and worked for his talent. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,997 Posted March 15, 2015 Aahh - but he spent a long while playing second fiddle to Terry Betts at Kings Lynn. When he moved to Poole he was superb. He was probably one of the most talented motorcyclists of his day. Exactly."long while playing second fiddle" and to Terry Betts who wasn't one of the greats either....... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted March 15, 2015 Exactly."long while playing second fiddle" and to Terry Betts who wasn't one of the greats either....... My point being that 'Simmo' became one of the greats. With his natural talent of course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,615 Posted March 15, 2015 Exactly."long while playing second fiddle" and to Terry Betts who wasn't one of the greats either....... Come on everyone was better in the old days . 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,997 Posted March 15, 2015 My point being that 'Simmo' became one of the greats. With his natural talent of course. Not imo.And I guess not in Gavans from what he saw.Seems fair enough to me. Maybe people don't always see a rider at their best.The one for me that springs to mind is Per Jonsson.Whenever I saw him he had a duff meeting.So if I was to list the best riders I saw riding,he wouldn't come very high up(probably lower than Simmo) even though for others and looking at his record,he obviously should do.... It is opinions and what you have seen.What isn't an opinion is things like Risager not being rated.That is a fact whether I,you or Sidney liked him or not...... In a way it is a pity a thread about a decent young British rider should be more about other riders than the kid himself 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bruiser McHuge 589 Posted March 15, 2015 I watched Loram every week for a season at Kings Lynn in the 90's and I would certainly say he was one of the most talented riders I've ever seen....that doesn't mean he was one of the best riders of all time but as a natural talent on the track he was up there..certainly one of the most exciting riders I ever saw. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted March 15, 2015 Good to see andy smith get a mention on this thread. For too many, the memory will be of a veteran rider who somehow scraped into the gps year after year. but anyone who was at hyde rd in the early 80s will remember him as one of the most exciting teenage racers of all time. A favourite memory if mine is 1983 - he may have just turned 17- and him producing a blast round the boards for a from the back victory over mike lee, who was truly world class that year. But my word, if people think Lamberts gating (or morts, or pcs) is bad, smudgers was next level bad! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gee jay 234 Posted March 17, 2015 It is always very difficult to predict what lies in store for a rider showing early promise. I first watched Rob doing a series of 4 laps outings at Rye House when he was 14. These were timed and at one meeting were faster than some recorded in the main match. Then, on the other hand, Steve Boxall was equally impressive at a similar age and, look at David Howe as a youngster riding for Peterborough. It isn't just natural ability but a determination to succeed, and proof following the career of one Ivan Mauger, a rider having not that much natural talent but an iron hardness to be the best. The same could be said of Ove Fundin. So, how will Robert do? He has a great family support around him and appears very mature - an interview at Rye House at the age of 14 verifies this. Personally, I think he could go the whole way. i didn't think he came over as mature in his s/star interview about not being able to race here, having no backing, and not riding for gb unless they came to him and ask, he then might help them out, in fact he hit me as being quite the opposite. i've obviously got the lad wrong. he is undoubtedly a talent and if he can keep injury free he will surely get to mix it with the worlds best because of what he, mum & dad have sacrificed to get to where he is now. but i can't help wonder that as british fans are we fortunate that he had a 50/50 choice with germany and not poland or denmark? Mauger wasn't what is referred to as a 'naturally talented rider'. I thought that was pretty much well documented? your right, he says so himself in every interview i've got of him. he does'nt even think he was as gifted as half the riders he beat to his world championships, and always said the same when talking about darcy ward. i believe he put it down to working harder and being fitter, and ability to get into a rivals head. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phillipsr 2,057 Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) your right, he says so himself in every interview i've got of him. he does'nt even think he was as gifted as half the riders he beat to his world championships, and always said the same when talking about darcy ward. i believe he put it down to working harder and being fitter, and ability to get into a rivals head. Thats how i would describe Nicki Pedersen nowdays Edited March 17, 2015 by phillipsr 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
