SGP 49 Posted June 3, 2015 WELL the track this evening is looking great for the TV coverage... Expect Nigel and Kelvin to lightly touch on Monday's turn of events. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,615 Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Thanks. That cannot, of course, be answered simply yes or no as it's pure conjecture. What we do now know is that Holder is of the opinion that the meetings should never have started, that Watt (when taking a 0-5 with Starke) passed comment that he couldn't see well and almost fell despite being out front on his own and under no pressure, that both sides wanted a track inspection before heat 9. At this time, with two heats to go (as it turned out), there was no way of knowing which team would be leading if/when the meeting was called to an end. My point being that considerable concerns had already been raised. It seems to me that the 'tipping point' for Havelock was when the promised track inspection was subsequently refused. We all know Havelock is a strong character and will state his opinion with no concern for whether it's popular or not. I would suggest that he almost certainly had no concern whatsoever at this point for the meeting score and his actions were driven solely by anger at the refusal of a track inspection that had been promised just moments earlier. No way of knowing who would be leading ? Poole were 7 points up with the likelihood of only two heats left ..I reckon are hazard a guess that Poole might be leading Edited June 3, 2015 by orion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BANANAMAN 330 Posted June 3, 2015 stevebrum, on 03 Jun 2015 - 1:34 PM, said: Yea great idea, not. Take away the TV audience who won't suddenly all start turning up to live Speedway - they will be lost to the sport. So infact you are advocating we lose yet more of a viewing audience. Did we have Speedway before Sky ? Is there a higher attendance at meetings NOT shown live on Sky ? Have meetings been ridden when hand on heart whatever club you support you knew the meeting should not have started ? I could go on but what's the point ?? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,615 Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Did we have Speedway before Sky ? Is there a higher attendance at meetings NOT shown live on Sky ? Have meetings been ridden when hand on heart whatever club you support you knew the meeting should not have started ? I could go on but what's the point ?? I am sure there are loads of meetings ..who could forget Belle Vue v Wolves on good Friday a couple of years back . Not sure why this has to do with this meeting as this meeting should have started as the track was fine up to heat 6 Edited June 3, 2015 by orion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
abbo 229 Posted June 3, 2015 Having followed the whole affair up in the Coventry Telegraph I must apologise to Christina Turnbull (match referee) because I criticised her for not examining the track. I must say that I am now completely lost as to what happens when Sky record a meeting. The CT explains that televised matches have additional "licensed officials" in the pits so much so that the referee who usually has full control, in fact only deals with racing incidents on those occasions!. It appears that the meeting "STEWARD" was. Peter Clarke, I would ask who he is Speedway or Sky employee and what is a licensed official,licensed by speedway or Sky. CT explains that only the losing side can ask for a track inspection after heat 10. The reason being that any abandonment would automatically mean that they lose the match. But either side can ask for the track to be examined before heat 10. Havelock maintains that he spoke to the referee who referred film to Mr Clark.who refused the request. What a strange way of running a televised speedway meeting, I would again ask how many experienced speedway supporters are aware of these strange rules. Once again I apologise to the match referee but still ask who levied the fines on Horton, Havelock, Harris and Kylmankorpi. The match referee or the mysterious Mr Clarke. As I pointed out in my last rant if a rider had been killed I still consider there would be a possible case of corporate manslaughter against who?. It might be argued that Speedway needs Sky but sorry Monday night was a shambles, no sour grapes Poole did what they had to do, 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Midland Red 2,383 Posted June 3, 2015 I can't believe I'm going to do this because I'm far from a fan of his but I have to defend Havelock. What Havelock did showed true integrity, something that is sadly lacking. It was his opinion that the track was unsafe to race on, an opinion held and apparently agreed on by even some in the Poole ranks, before the rerun of heat 10. He was promised a visual track inspection would take place and this was not forthcoming. His refusal to allow his riders to take to what he considered and unsafe track which had not been inspected and what followed when Holder lost control probably saved riders from injury. He was the only one there prepared to actually take a stand. I also feel for Horton - not a fan of his really either. There is little doubt that had this not been a Sky meeting it would have been postponed early morning the same at the Wolves and Belle Vue meetings. I've been to plenty of meetings at Brandon in the last 10 years and I can tell you that whether or not it's on Sky it's the biggest pay day of the season when Poole are in town. Forget blame and petty rivalries for a moment - British Speedway was the loser on Monday and frankly it can't afford that to be the case many more times!! Top post The fault lies squarely with the live televising of meetings - we all know from experience dating back to the late 1920s that when bad weather intervenes, there's either no meeting, a poor one or an abandoned one The poor weather is never going to go away, and until Sky came on the scene, weather disruptions were dealt with, in the main, with little or no problem Now we have the situation where track preparation is taken away from the promoting track, meetings which should never start are forced on, hopefully to reach heat 10 for a result, and it also seems that the general governance for a televised league meeting on Sky is totally different from the norm I attach no blame to Havvy, or to Muddlo, or any team manager in fact, who wants a meeting called off immediately heat 10 is reached when their team is in front Sky live league meetings are the main contributor to the devaluation of a decent family sport and have helped to cause the BSPA to generally lose the plot on how to run the sport (black and white double points, green helmet covers, heat 10 cut-off, play-offs creating champions from 4th place, loss of a decent cup competition, televised meetings off tracks' normal nights, etc etc) Let's get our sport back! Having followed the whole affair up in the Coventry Telegraph I must apologise to Christina Turnbull (match referee) because I criticised her for not examining the track. I must say that I am now completely lost as to what happens when Sky record a meeting. The CT explains that televised matches have additional "licensed officials" in the pits so much so that the referee who usually has full control, in fact only deals with racing incidents on those occasions!. It appears that the meeting "STEWARD" was. Peter Clarke, I would ask who he is Speedway or Sky employee and what is a licensed official,licensed by speedway or Sky. CT explains that only the losing side can ask for a track inspection after heat 10. The reason being that any abandonment would automatically mean that they lose the match. But either side can ask for the track to be examined before heat 10. Havelock maintains that he spoke to the referee who referred film to Mr Clark.who refused the request. What a strange way of running a televised speedway meeting, I would again ask how many experienced speedway supporters are aware of these strange rules. Once again I apologise to the match referee but still ask who levied the fines on Horton, Havelock, Harris and Kylmankorpi. The match referee or the mysterious Mr Clarke. As I pointed out in my last rant if a rider had been killed I still consider there would be a possible case of corporate manslaughter against who?. It might be argued that Speedway needs Sky but sorry Monday night was a shambles, no sour grapes Poole did what they had to do, Peter Clarke, who promised a track inspection after heat 9, live on TV, then reneged on it, was sporting an SCB logo on his coat 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moxey63 1,785 Posted June 3, 2015 She got called all names under the sun, but Charlie Webster's disappearance from the speedway scene makes her one wise gal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
abbo 229 Posted June 3, 2015 I would ask Speedy 69 if he was present at the meeting it rained quite heavily from 1-10 and dangerous. Who is Peter Clark I didn't realise he was wearing a SCB jacket, this doesn't say a lot, referees are trained to a standard and nursed by senior refs. I hope someone identifies him and SCB are able to outline his qualifications! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Woz01 3,589 Posted June 3, 2015 I'm going to repeat whats has already been said but unless we keep repeating it the powers that be won't listen. The issue with the heat 10 rules is that if a meeting gets to heat 10 and it's dangerous, they call the meeting off and award the points, I think we all get and agree to that. Where we have an issue is if they get to heat 4,5,6,7,8 or 9 and it gets dangerous they say, "we just have to get to heat 10" - that is wrong! If it's bad, it's bad and should be stopped - not "just 2/3/4/5 more heats". This, agree entirely! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdmc82 2,878 Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) I would ask Speedy 69 if he was present at the meeting it rained quite heavily from 1-10 and dangerous.!👍🏻 When the rain got heavier before the meeting had even started and work was still being done on track we thought it would be rained off.When it was then announced there was no parade and they were just going to attempt to get meeting done, I did wonder how it could possibly go ahead with heavy rain and wind so strong they couldn't even keep the camera stands from blowing over or tyres moving on the greyhound track. It was clear from the beginning that it was never going to go more than 10 heats and that the conditions were dangerous. Edited June 3, 2015 by mdmc82 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPEEDY69 1,260 Posted June 3, 2015 I would ask Speedy 69 if he was present at the meeting it rained quite heavily from 1-10 and dangerous. Who is Peter Clark I didn't realise he was wearing a SCB jacket, this doesn't say a lot, referees are trained to a standard and nursed by senior refs. I hope someone identifies him and SCB are able to outline his qualifications! Peter Clarke I believe is a qualified ACU referee, so not a Sky employee. I wasn't there in person but that makes no difference to my view. I'm afraid we'll have to disagree on the 'dangerous' point - wet and slimy but consistent is not dangerous to me and I have ridden in those conditions several times as well as witnessed other meetings like that. To be fair the track looked good at the start of the meeting but if it was not on TV would have been cancelled before Ht 10. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
noggin 1,390 Posted June 3, 2015 She got called all names under the sun, but Charlie Webster's disappearance from the speedway scene makes her one wise gal. Not that wise, she's presenting tonight. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,615 Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) It was clear from the beginning that it was never going to go more than 10 heats and that the conditions were dangerous. Anyone who saw first heats saw that is was far from dangerous hence why no one fell and the racing was ok . if it had stopped raining then we would had more that ten heats as the track was fine . Edited June 3, 2015 by orion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trees 2,814 Posted June 3, 2015 Not that wise, she's presenting tonight. Oh no!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grand Central 2,654 Posted June 3, 2015 Not that wise, she's presenting tonight. Oh, for goodness sake! Have we not suffered enough this week already? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
