stratton 1,491 Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) Liking or disliking something is a personal choice, thats fine. It is when ridiculous arguments with no substance whatsoever are put foreard to supposedly support that opinion it becomes silly. Clearly a few people dont like play offs but to suggest they are in any way responsible for the decline in the sport, when overwhelming evidence shows different is ludicrousI have never said the play/offs were bad for the sport,and i know they are here to stay.My choice would be to have an outright Champion then four fighting out a semi final scenario therefore something to fight for all season.Even a team achieving a double what a feat that could be Orion said about the expense??? it would only be a couple of home fixtures and lets be honest we are starved of home fixtures these days so that would be great.Everybody has put there case across and there opinion nobody is right or wrong it is just a matter of personal preference debating is not always about being right or wrong. Edited November 28, 2015 by sidney 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
guitar_art 248 Posted November 28, 2015 Liking or disliking something is a personal choice, thats fine. It is when ridiculous arguments with no substance whatsoever are put foreard to supposedly support that opinion it becomes silly. Clearly a few people dont like play offs but to suggest they are in any way responsible for the decline in the sport, when overwhelming evidence shows different is ludicrous My guess is that more than a few don't like play offs. (Me included!) I have to say that IMO resurrecting the KOC for the play offs would be a good way to go. Sky could have two trophies for the price of one. As for those that believe that the fans would not turn out for the playoffs if they were not connected to the league. I saw no evidence of that during the NL campaign this year. I am sure that if you ask any Eastie fan they didn't see the gold cup as a devalued trophy. In fact Eastbourne management used the cup to try to say that they were the better team over the year. (They weren't they were the best cup team) This is of course all opinion on my part. However I do say this. There is a well known saying: - "If it ain't broke don't fix it." Well it is broke so maybe its worth finding out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,639 Posted November 28, 2015 The play offs have not be proved to be broken thou ..the nl is a bad example as the riders ride for peanuts and the crowd is likely to stay the same Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratton 1,491 Posted November 28, 2015 The play offs have not be proved to be broken thou ..the nl is a bad example as the riders ride for peanuts and the crowd is likely to stay the sameA simple question to you,if there was no play/offs would speedway at Swindon survive?Does the play/offs ensure that speedway continues at Swindon? i don't see that the gates are any better over a period to be honest i recon the up front sky revenue covers over the cracks without sky the play/offs would not HAVE to be in place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
guitar_art 248 Posted November 28, 2015 The play offs have not be proved to be broken thou ..the nl is a bad example as the riders ride for peanuts and the crowd is likely to stay the same Sorry but I respectfully don't see your logic. You appear to be connecting riders riding for peanuts to the crowds staying at the same level. If you are just saying that the crowds stay at the same level for each match is not connected to riders wage levels then you have not given an explanation for why this might be so. I would have to conclude that it is because the NL are doing something right. In any case two teams in this years NL have moved from the EL and have reported better crowd levels. Birmingham even having at least one crowd bigger than the number watching the EL play off final! Of course you could fairly point out that Birmingham closed down and that therefore the crowd levels were due to them getting their club back. I would have to say there could be more than a little truth in that. However the same cannot be said for Eastbourne. It is a personal opinion of mine but I dislike play offs. If you want a cup competition then have a cup competition. But a league competition should be a league competition. If this years national league had been decided by play offs then Easty would have won the lot because by the end of the year they were without doubt the best team in the league. But over the course of the season Birmingham were the better team. That is why a league is a league and a cup is a cup. For those that like the play offs I say, Fine,fair enough have your play offs but for a different trophy as is done in Rugby and as the NL did this year. It is my opinion that crowds would still turn out for the play offs. And for those that say no they would not I have to ask where is your proof? I can turn to the NL this season and show that it did not adversely affect the crowds. Can you do the same? And wouldn't it be worth finding out even if only for one season? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,639 Posted November 28, 2015 A simple question to you,if there was no play/offs would speedway at Swindon survive?Does the play/offs ensure that speedway continues at Swindon? i don't see that the gates are any better over a period to be honest i recon the up front sky revenue covers over the cracks without sky the play/offs would not HAVE to be in place. You never saw the gates get better when Ward joined Swindon to help them get into the playoffs last year ? by all accounts they went up about 17 % ...how more of a recent example do you want ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vincent Blachshadow 2,938 Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) You never saw the gates get better when Ward joined Swindon to help them get into the playoffs last year ? by all accounts they went up about 17 % ...how more of a recent example do you want ? That's why the crowds improved - I even went myself to see him ride - nothing to do with getting into the play-offs. And most of the folk I spoke to t were there for the same reason. They'd be there if it was a challenge match! Edited November 28, 2015 by Vincent Blackshadow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,639 Posted November 28, 2015 For those that like the play offs I say, Fine,fair enough have your play offs but for a different trophy as is done in Rugby and as the NL did this year. It is my opinion that crowds would still turn out for the play offs. And for those that say no they would not I have to ask where is your proof? I can turn to the NL this season and show that it did not adversely affect the crowds. Can you do the same? And wouldn't it be worth finding out even if only for one season? Sorry who won the craven shield this year ? what about the jack young shield in the pl ? That's why the crowds improved - I even went myself to see him ride - nothing to do with getting into the play-offs. And most of the folk I spoke to t were there for the same reason. They'd be there if it was a challenge match! .. Whoosh ..without the plays offs Swindon would not have sign him in the first place ...rosco said that himself 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vincent Blachshadow 2,938 Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) Whoosh ..without the plays offs Swindon would not have sign him in the first place ...rosco said that himself Yeah, right! Whoever signed him was going to make a buck or two through folk turning up to see him. It was a good signing for Swindon regardless of the play-offs and Rosco knew that well enough! Edited November 28, 2015 by Vincent Blackshadow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratton 1,491 Posted November 28, 2015 You never saw the gates get better when Ward joined Swindon to help them get into the playoffs last year ? by all accounts they went up about 17 % ...how more of a recent example do you want ?Yes but how much did DARCY earn?? a great rider he deserves his money, even with Darcy riding home v Lakeside, v Poole (on TV) v King's Lynn the gates were not great he was not paid peanuts was he.?. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,639 Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) Yes but how much did DARCY earn?? a great rider he deserves his money, even with Darcy riding home v Lakeside, v Poole (on TV) v King's Lynn the gates were not great he was not paid peanuts was he.?. As Rosco said to me having Ward in the side and making play offs with the extra tv money more than paid for ward wages ..so the answer to your question the plays offs have helped Swindon get bigger crowds overall last season . the matches you spoke about even if the crowds were quite low would have been even lower without Ward and the play offs . Edited November 28, 2015 by orion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vincent Blachshadow 2,938 Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) As Rosco said to me having Ward in the side and making play offs with the extra tv money more than paid for ward wages ..so the answer to your question the plays offs have helped Swindon get bigger crowds overall last season . the matches you spoke about even if the crowds were quite low would have been even lower without Ward and the play offs . Without Ward, without a doubt (we three wouldn't have been there for a start). Play-off qualification made not one jot of difference to us and I'd say there were loads of others like us. Edited November 28, 2015 by Vincent Blackshadow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratton 1,491 Posted November 28, 2015 As Rosco said to me having Ward in the side and making play offs with the extra tv money more than paid for ward wages ..so the answer to your question the plays offs have helped Swindon get bigger crowds overall last season . the matches you spoke about even if the crowds were quite low would have been even lower without Ward and the play offs .No the matches you mention would of been lower, but those crowds were not great anyway with Ward riding( paying his wages)..? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted November 28, 2015 surely everyone on this thread agrees play offs get higher turnouts? but the long term survival of speedway, has to mean, march to sept is the main problem, not October? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,247 Posted November 28, 2015 surely everyone on this thread agrees play offs get higher turnouts? but the long term survival of speedway, has to mean, march to sept is the main problem, not October? Looking at it simplistically the Play-Offs are the 'icing' but with no 'cake' there can't be icing! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
