g13webb 4,254 Posted October 22, 2015 Darcy Ward 10.80 Jason Doyle 10.55 Niels K Iversen 10.36 Maciej Janowski 10.28 Andreas Jonsson 9.23 Peter Kildemand 8.91 Matej Zagar 8.88 Rory Schlein 8.77 Chris Harris 8.56 Chris Holder 8.31 Scott Nicholls 8.03 Troy Batchelor 8.02 Fredrik Lindgren 7.68 Craig Cook 7.66 Nick Morris 7.66 Hans Andersen 7.27 Peter Karlsson 7.07 Dakota North 6.96 Joonas Kylmakorpi 6.91 Grzegorz Walasek 6.83 Grzegorz Zengota 6.83 Davey Watt 6.77 Mikkel B Jensen 6.76 Edward Kennett 6.59 Kim Nilsson 6.48 Kenneth Bjerre 6.43 Danny King 6.33 Robert Lambert 6.23 Ricky Wells 5.92 Richard Lawson 5.75 Josh Grajczonek 5.67 Max Fricke 5.42 Kyle Howarth 5.19 Jacob Thorssell 5.17 Kacper Gomolski 5.15 Vaclav Milik 5.14 Tobiasz Musielak 5.00 Jason Garrity 5.00 Szymon Wozniak 5.00 Kyle Newman 4.96 Lewis Kerr 4.71 Josh Auty 4.67 Stuart Robson 4.43 Steve Worrall 4.35 Nicklas Porsing 4.18 Piotr Swiderski 4.18 Charles Wright 4.16 Bjarne Pedersen 4.14 Ashley Birks 3.91 Simon Stead 3.84 Lewis Blackbird 3.78 James Sarjeant 3.16 Adam Ellis 3.10 Paul Starke 3.03 Stefan Nielsen 2.87 Josh Bates 2.58 Mikkel Michelsen 2.57 Simon Lambert 2.09 Lewis Rose 2.07 Ashley Morris 2.05 Eduard Krcmar 1.95 Adrian Miedzinski 1.54 I've included every rider regardless of the number of meeting they have ridden*, so the likes of Michelsen, Miedzinski, Pedersen and Stead are wrong. It means no need to using PL average for reserves, no need to "heat leader" list. Sorted. And quite nicely, if you remove Ward, Magic and Kildemand, take the top 56 (8 teams of 7 riders), add their combined averages and dive by 8 (teams) you get 40.29 which is about right for the points limit. *I know theres a few odd riders missing (summers and swiderski for 2 as I need to update the database to let it know they had signed for EL teams) but it's most riders. What !! No loop holes ???? Now why couldn't the BSPA have done something along similar lines. So straight forward, so self-explanatory and everyone would see a clear situation of fairness. Just proves what can be done, with the right application.......... Well done that man........ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gambo 1,341 Posted October 22, 2015 Why not just declare that those who started 2015 as Heatleaders to be Heatleaders for 2016? Not much difference to SCB's weighted list. ATB Dave Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
g13webb 4,254 Posted October 22, 2015 Why not just declare that those who started 2015 as Heatleaders to be Heatleaders for 2016? Not much difference to SCB's weighted list. ATB Dave You are obviously missing the point. The list includes all riders Heatleaders, Second strings and Reserves, with a compatible average for fairness to all clubs and riders. Using this list all squads selections can be assembled fairly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bradford Ace 183 Posted October 22, 2015 Thanks to CVS in the Speedway Star we now know a bit more. The heat leader list has already been agreed by all 8 promotions & he doesn't know if it will be made public. The reserves will still be subject to a 2 round draft with tier 1 having 12 riders & the 4 unselected joining tier 2. They'll be signed on 60% of their PL average. All GSAs are going to be calculated every 4 matches rather than monthly. I presume therefore that the likes of Garrity, Newman, Worrall will still be in the reserve lists then by the sound of it?? Any mention of the protected thing they had last year re assets i.e. we protected S Worrall cos we own him, same with Poole & Newman etc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted October 22, 2015 Clicking on the riders names, the parent clubs of a lot of riders is wrong!! Janowski,Doyle,Grajczonek and North, just a few examples. You're right. And it's my laziness. Anyone whos switched teams in the last 2 years doesn't have the right parent club. Any new riders in the last 2 years don't have date of births either. I should update them or remove that info. I've always seen the site as more of a historical reference of averages and meetings results rather than an up to date list of results - so I should probably remove that info. Why not just declare that those who started 2015 as Heatleaders to be Heatleaders for 2016? Not much difference to SCB's weighted list. ATB Dave If you wanted to dumb it down you could I guess. You still have the issue that Freddie Lindgren becomes much more sought after than say Craig Cook or Joonas Kylmakorpi due to the fact they have had an easier spell as second string though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big Al 708 Posted October 22, 2015 What !! No loop holes ???? Now why couldn't the BSPA have done something along similar lines. So straight forward, so self-explanatory and everyone would see a clear situation of fairness. Just proves what can be done, with the right application.......... Well done that man........ And how very interesting that 8 (teams) x 3 (heatleaders per team) = 24 Rider no.24 is Edward Kennett, with an average just above the mooted 6.50 criteria for counting as heatleaders! However, with rider withdrawals and retirements certain among the 1-24, that group will need to be topped-up by the same number of new arrivals/returners, and/or lowering the heatleader threshold average? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A ORLOV 8,628 Posted October 22, 2015 And how very interesting that 8 (teams) x 3 (heatleaders per team) = 24 Rider no.24 is Edward Kennett, with an average just above the mooted 6.50 criteria for counting as heatleaders! However, with rider withdrawals and retirements certain among the 1-24, that group will need to be topped-up by the same number of new arrivals/returners, and/or lowering the heatleader threshold average? Which will make it interesting if a few new riders from abroad come in as tier 1 riders and some at the end of the tier 1 list cannot be signed as all teams already have their three riders. What then would happen to a rider like Kennett. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tocha 308 Posted October 22, 2015 And how very interesting that 8 (teams) x 3 (heatleaders per team) = 24 Rider no.24 is Edward Kennett, with an average just above the mooted 6.50 criteria for counting as heatleaders! However, with rider withdrawals and retirements certain among the 1-24, that group will need to be topped-up by the same number of new arrivals/returners, and/or lowering the heatleader threshold average? I believe 8 x 3 has been 24 since the dawn of time! Ed might be 24th just by using final averages (his is 5.86 BTW) but that is not the object of the excercise. It is to evaluate the performance of riders over the course of last season and specifically those who have alternated between heat leader and second string. I have no idea which method is to be used but one way would be to compare monthly averages achieved in both categories then adjust accordingly. The 6.50 figure seems to have become something of a red herring. It only applies to overseas riders entering our EL for the first time. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted October 22, 2015 Thanks to CVS in the Speedway Star we now know a bit more. The heat leader list has already been agreed by all 8 promotions & he doesn't know if it will be made public. The reserves will still be subject to a 2 round draft with tier 1 having 12 riders & the 4 unselected joining tier 2. They'll be signed on 60% of their PL average. All GSAs are going to be calculated every 4 matches rather than monthly. Only just seen this, missed it earlier. It cannot be done as a draft now. i the past you picked your first rider in a pre-defined order and then the 2nd rider based on your first. The theory being if you had a good rider in 1 you got a poorer rider in 2. Fine. But now if you get a better rider in draft 1, you use up more points in the points limit, so to then get a worse tier two rider you are punished. It should just be all teams have to have a tier 1 and a tier 2 rider. It should NOT be a draft. If it is a draft, I hope Coventry get Garrity to ride in the 1-5 and pick lower down the draft so they get two middle of the road riders rather than a good and a bad one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big Al 708 Posted October 22, 2015 I believe 8 x 3 has been 24 since the dawn of time! Ed might be 24th just by using final averages (his is 5.86 BTW) but that is not the object of the excercise. It is to evaluate the performance of riders over the course of last season and specifically those who have alternated between heat leader and second string. I have no idea which method is to be used but one way would be to compare monthly averages achieved in both categories then adjust accordingly. The 6.50 figure seems to have become something of a red herring. It only applies to overseas riders entering our EL for the first time. It was just an interesting co-incidence, nothing more! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alan_Jones 1,005 Posted October 22, 2015 Only just seen this, missed it earlier. It cannot be done as a draft now. i the past you picked your first rider in a pre-defined order and then the 2nd rider based on your first. The theory being if you had a good rider in 1 you got a poorer rider in 2. Fine. But now if you get a better rider in draft 1, you use up more points in the points limit, so to then get a worse tier two rider you are punished. It should just be all teams have to have a tier 1 and a tier 2 rider. It should NOT be a draft. If it is a draft, I hope Coventry get Garrity to ride in the 1-5 and pick lower down the draft so they get two middle of the road riders rather than a good and a bad one. I assumed the same, but they are using a draft. There isn't a direct quote on this from CVS but Paul Burbidge's exact words are: "There will be 12 riders in the tier one draft, with the four not selected eligible to be chosen when the tier two picks are made, ensuring the best Fast Track stars are given every chance of getting a job". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heathen chemistry 660 Posted October 22, 2015 wont the protected draft riders from last yr still be protected.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted October 23, 2015 scb any chancecu coukd post a table comparing yoyr weighted averages to officiak greenshets. ti show variance in absokute or percentage terns as an example swindon fans ate ckamouring to sign zengivand ditch batch, but your stats show batchvis the better signing by about 2 points. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skidder1 7,637 Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) As its still not clear what the cut-off point for heat leaders is to be, plus we also don't know how many other foreign riders may want to race EL at 6.5+, won't this mean the risk of some 'heat leaders' not getting an EL place and consequently not being able to ne a 2nd string either?! Or does the BSPA heat leader list only include 24 riders to start with? Edited October 23, 2015 by Skidder1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted October 23, 2015 scb any chancecu coukd post a table comparing yoyr weighted averages to officiak greenshets. ti show variance in absokute or percentage terns as an example swindon fans ate ckamouring to sign zengivand ditch batch, but your stats show batchvis the better signing by about 2 points. I'll have a look later. As its still not clear what the cut-off point for heat leaders is to be, plus we also don't know how many other foreign riders may want to race EL at 6.5+, won't this mean the risk of some 'heat leaders' not getting an EL place and consequently not being able to ne a 2nd string either?! Or does the BSPA heat leader list only include 24 riders to start with? Just another case of some messed up thinking by the BSPA and why weighting riders based on their riding position makes more sense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
