Reviresco 708 Posted February 12, 2016 The spread of dominance by Ivan on the original list is too broad. Yes, he won more individual world titles than anyone else during that period but there were some specific seasons where others were more prominent overall. But, as norbold has stated, this isn't about the 'top' rider in a given year. This is about a dominant rider in an era. A rider who was looked at as the one to beat. The one the others looked up to. Year on Year top riders have been discussed on other Threads. The way that arnieg has looked at this is more comparable. How good would Todd have been if he hadn't been injured in 1992? A multiple World Champion? No, not a multiple World Champion. Would have troubled the top 3 a few times though. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norbold 7,167 Posted February 12, 2016 But, as norbold has stated, this isn't about the 'top' rider in a given year. This is about a dominant rider in an era. A rider who was looked at as the one to beat. The one the others looked up to. Year on Year top riders have been discussed on other Threads. The way that arnieg has looked at this is more comparable. Yes, exactly, that was the point I was making. It wasn't mean to be a yearly comparison. Of course that would come out differently. It was to look at the era as a whole. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) I started this thread to generate a bit of interest in some of the great names of the past and to get people's views on who they thought the greatest were. I didn't start it so that two people could just behave like kids in the playground and hurl ridiculously childish insults at each other. Start up your own thread if you want to do that and leave this one to the grown ups. Thank you. I am very sorry Norbold will not even make a post again, like TWK i give in give up don't really enjoy reading the posts anymore. I do opologise for this thread and i was very wrong in doing what i did i have learned loads from you over the years i hope you continue enjoying and watching your speedway. Edited February 13, 2016 by Sidney the robin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted February 13, 2016 Sid. Don't quit, just step away from the keyboard when you feel the red mist descend. You have a lot to contribute to the years gone by threads in particular, just not when you're threatening to punch people out 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted February 14, 2016 Sid. Don't quit, just step away from the keyboard when you feel the red mist descend. You have a lot to contribute to the years gone by threads in particular, just not when you're threatening to punch people outThanks,to be honest i really enjoy the years gone by thread and there are some real good blokes on here that we can all learn a bit off.There are a few on here who we know who they are that really get to me big time,for me to ignore and say nothing.? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TonyMac 720 Posted February 14, 2016 Yes, exactly, that was the point I was making. It wasn't mean to be a yearly comparison. Of course that would come out differently. It was to look at the era as a whole. So is there anything to debate here? As your list correctly states, Ivan was the dominant man from 1968-79, in terms of both domestic and international achievements. No argument. No debate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) I started this thread to generate a bit of interest in some of the great names of the past and to get people's views on who they thought the greatest were. I didn't start it so that two people could just behave like kids in the playground and hurl ridiculously childish insults at each other. Start up your own thread if you want to do that and leave this one to the grown ups. Thank you. Once Sidney arrived any objective discussion goes out of the window I'm afraid Norbold. Excellent list by the way, I would also agree that it should be Tai from 2013 onwards. I'd also say that in the period 1991-93 Sam Ermolenko was the best in the world. Edited February 15, 2016 by BWitcher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norbold 7,167 Posted February 15, 2016 So is there anything to debate here? As your list correctly states, Ivan was the dominant man from 1968-79, in terms of both domestic and international achievements. No argument. No debate. It seems not about that period, but there is debate on other periods, particularly the more recent eras. Greg or Tai; Jason or Nicki. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,960 Posted February 15, 2016 I'd also say that in the period 1991-93 Sam Ermolenko was the best in the world. Jan O Pedersen and Hans Nielsen were better in 1991, and Per Jonsson was better in 1992. Ermolenko was the best rider in the world in 1993. Again, it's not who was best in an individual year - it's who was better over the whole timeframe. Ermolenko doesn't come near Nielsen over 1983-1995. All the best Rob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) Jan O Pedersen and Hans Nielsen were better in 1991, and Per Jonsson was better in 1992. Ermolenko was the best rider in the world in 1993. Again, it's not who was best in an individual year - it's who was better over the whole timeframe. Ermolenko doesn't come near Nielsen over 1983-1995. All the best Rob Of course he doesn't, but I stand by the argument that 1991-93 Ermolenko was the dominant rider.. a period only ended due to another serious injury, which allowed Nielsen to reclaim it in 94/95. Jan O put it together on World Final night in 1991, but in the league he was 9.54.. Ermolenko 10.74. Nielsen 10.50. Ermolenko also won the BLRC in 91 of course, when the competition actually still meant something. Edited February 15, 2016 by BWitcher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,960 Posted February 15, 2016 Of course he doesn't, but I stand by the argument that 1991-93 Ermolenko was the dominant rider.. a period only ended due to another serious injury, which allowed Nielsen to reclaim it in 94/95. Jan O put it together on World Final night in 1991, but in the league he was 9.54.. Ermolenko 10.74. Nielsen 10.50. Ermolenko also won the BLRC in 91 of course, when the competition actually still meant something. Surely the dominant rider is a combination of world form and league form. The Danes were completely dominant in 1991, due to the twin spearhead of Jan O and Hans, and Tommy having a very good year as well. In the World Pairs, the Danes won easily, with Nielsen unbeaten. Hans was favourite for the World Final having cakewalked his semi-final with a maximum, but instead it was Jan O who deservedly won at Gothenburg with a brilliant, untroubled maximum. The World Team Cup saw the Danes set a new record total - I seem to recall Jan O scored another maximum, while Hans only dropped a single point. Pedersen and Nielsen were the dominant riders of 1991. Pedersen won a clean sweep of world honours; Nielsen won the World Team Cup and World Pairs. What international honours did Sam win in 1991? Jan O's sad injury, plus Nielsen suffering a collarbone injury which led to his elimination, created a vacuum in 1992. That season the USA did win the pairs and team events, but wasn't it Greg who came in mid-meeting and won the pairs for the Americans, defeating Havvy in the run-off? No one rider dominated 1992, but the best rider overall was probably Jonsson, the World No 2 that year. Didn't Sam have a shocker of a World Final? And Havelock had one hell of a run in the World Championship. Sam was the best rider in 1993, without any question at all. But I think that was the only season where he was the best rider in the world. All the best Rob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
